What is this 16700? A Frankenwatch?

[502 to Right]

I'm on the hunt for a 16700 GMT Pepsi and ran across this today on Reddit. What the is this? 4.4 million serial number and seller says it's a 1976 watch? I thought 4.4 million serial numbers were for replacement mid-cases and had nothing to do with a specific year.

What movement would this watch have? Seller says a 1976 movement. So a 1575?

What is this watch worth? Or can you even tell what it's worth given its mystery composition?





Here's the link:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchexchan...wiss/#lightbox

And the description:

Up for sale is a Rolex GMT Master 16700 - Blue/Red - Pepsi - Swiss Only Dial

Watch has a 4.4xxxxx Serial Number (1976)

Watch was just freshly serviced and is running perfectly without issue. Sale includes watch, service pouch, and service card (06/2022). Overall in fantastic condition with minor, if any, hairlines on bracelet and case. Original 1976 4.4xxxxx movement with factory service case (16700), dial, hands, bezel and bracelet.

$9450 plus shipping

And a photo:

[CTech]

The case is a service replacement, but the seller has probably consulted one of the serial number charts and concluded incorrectly that it is a 1976 watch.

Clearly it cannot be so as the 16700 wasn't introduced until 1988.

As for the movement, value, etc., assuming it is a genuine 16700 with service parts, it should have a 3175 movement and it is about the same price as you could get a good original one from a dealer.

It's been for sale for almost a week now so it is clear there is little interest at the current price with the current incorrect description. With that knowledge I would suggest that it is also of little interest to a collector and it would be a better bet for a usable daily watch if it was priced around $7500 to $8000.

[502 to Right]

Originally Posted by CTech

The case is a service replacement, but the seller has probably consulted one of the serial number charts and concluded incorrectly that it is a 1976 watch.

Clearly it cannot be so as the 16700 wasn't introduced until 1988.

As for the movement, value, etc., assuming it is a genuine 16700 with service parts, it should have a 3175 movement and it is about the same price as you could get a good original one from a dealer.

It's been for sale for almost a week now so it is clear there is little interest at the current price with the current incorrect description. With that knowledge I would suggest that it is also of little interest to a collector and it would be a better bet for a usable daily watch if it was priced around $7500 to $8000.

Without major modifications do you know what movements would even fit in a 16700 case? Obviously the 3175 that it was designed for. Would a 3075 fit? 1575?

Unless the seller opens the case and confirms the movement it's quite the mystery box.

Also, the Swiss only dial suggests the dial is 1998ish, correct? Assuming the dial is genuine.

[Mark020]

Probably all service parts with original movement. I’d only be interested if it was very cheap which it is not

[Tools]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

. . .

Also, the Swiss only dial suggests the dial is 1998ish, correct? Assuming the dial is genuine.

It is more likely that the dial is a service dial, just as the case is a service case. Swiss dials were used for a time after '99 as the Luminova service dial until depleted.

The watch is likely not a "Frankenwatch", it is probably a watch that has sustained use and damage that required the replacement of these parts. The only place you can get a service case is at an RSC.

Without the paperwork for that service you will not have the original serial to reference an approximate original build date. However, that is kind of irrelevant since the only thing left is whatever movement parts that were not replaced.

[502 to Right]

Originally Posted by Tools

It is more likely that the dial is a service dial, just as the case is a service case. Swiss dials were used for a time after '99 as the Luminova service dial until depleted.

The watch is likely not a "Frankenwatch", it is probably a watch that has sustained use and damage that required the replacement of these parts. The only place you can get a service case is at an RSC.

Without the paperwork for that service you will not have the original serial to reference an approximate original build date. However, that is kind of irrelevant since the only thing left is whatever movement parts that were not replaced.

The seller does include a Rolex service warranty card dated from 2022. I assume all this work was done at that time.

Personally, I'm not opposed to service parts as the 16700 I'm planning to get would be for daily wear. But I need to be certain what I'm getting and that it's fairly priced.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

The seller does include a Rolex service warranty card dated from 2022. I assume all this work was done at that time.

Personally, I'm not opposed to service parts as the 16700 I'm planning to get would be for daily wear. But I need to be certain what I'm getting and that it's fairly priced.

Indeed, nothing wrong with a properly rebuilt watch. Too many seem to believe that they need their Rolex to be unmolested and original in every aspect, ant that just isn't practical except for the hard-core collector who will never actually wear their pieces.

Value will be less than a mint original, but higher than an abused one. As long as you and the seller are in agreement, it's an excellent example.

[Dan S]

Obviously the seller doesn't know what he has, so it's up to you to make an offer based on your best guess. If you are interested, make an offer assuming it's all service parts.

[502 to Right]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Obviously the seller doesn't know what he has, so it's up to you to make an offer based on your best guess. If you are interested, make an offer assuming it's all service parts.

In my case the offer is zero. There are too many red flags with this seller and watch. If this was a $300 Seiko it might be a different matter.

[Mark020]

Don’t think there are too many red flags. Simply a - basically - completely new watch with a recently serviced movement

[502 to Right]

Originally Posted by Mark020

Don’t think there are too many red flags. Simply a - basically - completely new watch with a recently serviced movement

I guess we have differing views on red flags. I have no idea what movement is inside the watch. And the seller clearly doesn't know what it is. Or doesn't want to say. Even at $7,000 that's well beyond my comfort zone.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

This is a strange one

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

I guess we have differing views on red flags. I have no idea what movement is inside the watch. And the seller clearly doesn't know what it is. Or doesn't want to say. Even at $7,000 that's well beyond my comfort zone.

I guess everything has a different level of risk tolerance, but with a 2022 Rolex service card, I don't think I would be concerned. To me, it seems pretty clear what you are looking at.