TS's Take on the Cubitus Release

[Champagnepapi]

Originally Posted by Russell996

1. You’re an existing customer that wants to diversify their collection or support the brand (fair enough).

A diversified collection is always a goal, a charity I’m not. Never buy anything you don’t like or want.

2. You’ve got most of their hot stuff and are addicted to having the “latest and greatest”—you can’t stand the FOMO.

LOL

3. It’s an open gate for future allocations.

Cubitus isn’t an open gate to anything, a diversified collection gains access to special pieces. See point 1.

4. You want to flip it while it’s supposedly hot.

Only if you’re an idiot. See point 1.

5. SA lets you try it on and “slips” with their card reader on your Apple Pay. Opsie.

LOL

6. You’ve decided to visit your beloved AD after having 2-3 bottles of Chartreuse.

Never drink before deciding, only once the deal is done.

Only an idiot believes their choice is the only choice. If you don’t like something then don’t buy it, but have an understanding that views and opinions differ. There are 1000’s of watches that I wouldn’t consider buying but it doesn’t mean I think no one should - unless we are talking RM and then I have no understanding of anyone buying one.

All I meant was that it’s hard for me to imagine anyone choosing this over the Nautilus, given the choice between the two (and perhaps not having at least one already in your collection). But for the sake of this discussion, let me rephrase: Personally, I wouldn’t pick the Cubitus over the Nautilus.
It’s not that deep, my friend, and to be fair - I do think it looks great on your wrist.

P.S we agree on RM so it’s all good



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[Roger Lococco]

Stern is getting roasted on the Internets.

https://youtu.be/2ABQAH8qE0A?si=IqzlI1eZLOhTs-ld


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[vliberman]

To summarize TS reign at PP: cancel SS version of the most popular and recognizable version of Genta’s design, reduce water resistance to 30m on the rest of the collection and then turn what is left into Santos. Job well done!

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by pam66

every PP has something to go for it, namely the watchmaking craftsmanship - which is excellent. that shapes IMHO the first impression. it does hide the flaws on first impact.

I would counter with the size of the movement being so tiny in the case. How hard would it have been to design just a tad larger square plates. Every new Lange comes with a specifically designed movement to fit the case.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by metallic

Patek is certainly a watch company with a great history. The question is what are they now with their current offerings under their current leadership?

I for one am not inspired to buy any of their current products at their outlandish prices. Too many other great brands available including many incredible independents.

If I purchase something now, I think I would be simply purchasing the name on the dial.

I haven't bought new Patek for a while. I think their current line is too trendy with all the colored dials and then the repetitive styling of lumed Arabic's across the lines. I long for the era of the 5296 type Calatrava's with sector or Opaline dials. PP has lots of emphasis on lacquer and not much enamel or guilloche except on the ultra-high cost models.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by vliberman

To summarize TS reign at PP: cancel SS version of the most popular and recognizable version of Genta’s design, reduce water resistance to 30m on the rest of the collection and then turn what is left into Santos. Job well done!

You should have started with: put his (now ex-) wife in charge of design.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Roger Lococco

Stern is getting roasted on the Internets.

https://youtu.be/2ABQAH8qE0A?si=IqzlI1eZLOhTs-ld


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Some cheap shots but Eric isn't wrong.

Contrast Stern's interview which was not the first one that has been debatable with some of Romain Gauthier's interviews, for example. Night and day.

[scurfa]

Originally Posted by vliberman

To summarize TS reign at PP: cancel SS version of the most popular and recognizable version of Genta’s design, reduce water resistance to 30m on the rest of the collection and then turn what is left into Santos. Job well done!

Ditch loads of AD’s and loyal customers


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[RichardBartlett]

Originally Posted by vliberman

To summarize TS reign at PP: cancel SS version of the most popular and recognizable version of Genta’s design, reduce water resistance to 30m on the rest of the collection and then turn what is left into Santos. Job well done!

The water resistance hasn't actually been reduced, it's been realigned and reclassified . The actual depth is the same as the others used to be. Just a certification thing more than anything

[pam66]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

I would counter with the size of the movement being so tiny in the case. How hard would it have been to design just a tad larger square plates. Every new Lange comes with a specifically designed movement to fit the case.

correct, i agree, the movement is beyond funny.

[pam66]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

The water resistance hasn't actually been reduced, it's been realigned and reclassified . The actual depth is the same as the others used to be. Just a certification thing more than anything

i'd say a hedging against warranty cases...ohhh you have a water damage....you surely have dived with the watch. or you swam too fast, which put the effective pressure over 30 bar....

[INC]

Originally Posted by pam66

or you swam too fast, which put the effective pressure over 30 bar....

Then you would be the yellow submarine You wanted to write 3 bars, but that doesn't change the fact that you were right in your conclusion

[pam66]

Originally Posted by INC

Then you would be the yellow submarine You wanted to write 3 bars, but that doesn't change the fact that you were right in your conclusion

yes sorry and thanks, you are of course correct! i am notoriously bad with numbers. it is an affliction rampant in my profession:::)))

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

The water resistance hasn't actually been reduced, it's been realigned and reclassified . The actual depth is the same as the others used to be. Just a certification thing more than anything

water resistance has been reduced from at least 100m to 30m, full stop!!! The rest is poetry...

[RichardBartlett]

Originally Posted by vliberman

water resistance has been reduced from at least 100m to 30m, full stop!!! The rest is poetry...

From my understanding it's now a guaranteed 30m
where as generally 30m WR means don't go out in the rain.

WR ratings had always been a fudged nonsense. If it's guaranteed 30m then you're pretty much covered for everything unless you're a deep sat diver.
There's a lot of dick swinging over WR but only because it wasn't to be trusted and because it couldn't be trusted buyers went for 5000m WR just so they felt safe to wear it in the shower..

Again from my understanding PP haven't changed anything in their manufacturing to suddenly go from 120m to 30m just being more honest.





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[byow]

Originally Posted by RichardBartlett

From my understanding it's now a guaranteed 30m
where as generally 30m WR means don't go out in the rain.

WR ratings had always been a fudged nonsense. If it's guaranteed 30m then you're pretty much covered for everything unless you're a deep sat diver.
There's a lot of dick swinging over WR but only because it wasn't to be trusted and because it couldn't be trusted buyers went for 5000m WR just so they felt safe to wear it in the shower..

Again from my understanding PP haven't changed anything in their manufacturing to suddenly go from 120m to 30m just being more honest.


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This is correct.

An Aquanaut that was rated 120m is the same timepiece as one that is today guaranteed to 30m. PP jas not changed anything in the constitution of the Aquanaut for example.

PP guarantee that you can actually go 30m underwater with such timepiece, which is enough to have a shower, swim and dive to 30m.

It just takes time for people to accept that they can use their watch for almost everything except diving deeper than 30m.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by byow

This is correct.

An Aquanaut that was rated 120m is the same timepiece as one that is today guaranteed to 30m. PP jas not changed anything in the constitution of the Aquanaut for example.

PP guarantee that you can actually go 30m underwater with such timepiece, which is enough to have a shower, swim and dive to 30m.

It just takes time for people to accept that they can use their watch for almost everything except diving deeper than 30m.

Again, TS chose to correct down vs improving up!

[gm58]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Again, TS chose to correct down vs improving up!

This water resistance issue has been fudged for too long and honestly I welcome PP's clarification on the topic as one of the market leaders. It never made sense to me how 30m water resistance means only splash proof... at least PP has now come out and said 30m = safe to do diving at 30m for example.

I wish that the rest of the industry would follow suit and get aligned on the standards. Honestly I doubt 99% of watch enthusiasts would reach anywhere near <30M. Even when rec diving, it is unlikely you spend much time at 30m deep

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Again, TS chose to correct down vs improving up!

What exactly was corrected down?

The Aquanauts or Nautiluses did not physically change in any way since and because of that announcement.

If you so wish, you can take your newly acquired 2024 5167 and have it tested and compared to a 2015 5167. You should then be reassured (or disappointed) that TS did not correct it down.

Based on the questions people asked when Nautiluses and Aquanauts were rated 120m/60m, I consider a more harmonized and simple communication to be an improvement.

Obviously, a clearer and simpler communication still takes time to be correctly understood and accepted.

With time, this should help people understand that their 60m 5712 can actually be used underwater.

[scurfa]

My opinion of the 30m water resistance is the testing, now it could be done after the final casing using a bench tester, they have a built in compressor, this would save huge amounts of time, here is my bench tester



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[Partekular]

This was PP’s response to my query re 30m soon after they changed the rating…

“The answer to your question is yes. The new unified standard of water-resistance is set at 30 metres for all watches certified as water resistant. This measure enables Patek Philippe to guarantee the same performance level across all the models concerned. It also enables us to provide clarity as to the day-to-day activities in which clients can engage while wearing their watch: washing their hands, showering, bathing, swimming and other aquatic activities, including diving to a depth of 30 m.

However, as you also mentioned, watches fitted with a leather strap should not be exposed to water in order to retain the strap’s appearance and prevent any damage to it.

We do also encourage annual water-resistance tests, which will be completed at an authorized Patek Philippe Service Centre, to ensure your watch remains at this level functionality.”


It would seem reasonable if one were to claim water damage that they might well ask you for proof you undertook such a test before swimming. Etc. NB the watch has to be rated as water resistant in the first place so keep you minute repeaters dry!

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by byow

What exactly was corrected down?

The Aquanauts or Nautiluses did not physically change in any way since and because of that announcement.

If you so wish, you can take your newly acquired 2024 5167 and have it tested and compared to a 2015 5167. You should then be reassured (or disappointed) that TS did not correct it down.

Based on the questions people asked when Nautiluses and Aquanauts were rated 120m/60m, I consider a more harmonized and simple communication to be an improvement.

Obviously, a clearer and simpler communication still takes time to be correctly understood and accepted.

With time, this should help people understand that their 60m 5712 can actually be used underwater.

Lower WR rating is correction down, isn’t it? English is my second language so please forgive me if it ain’t clear.

Now, as to the poetry for people who bought the most idiotic “justification “ ever. Take Rolex, does one have any issues taking 100m GMT to 100m? I do it with my Pepsi all the time, something like 50m usually. Do I need clarification and annual water testing? Absolutely no. It just works, that is luxury!

PP used to think it needed to complete with Rolex and therefore slapped 100m WR to match Rolex. It was never capable of that. Just the thinness of watch would have indicated that. It was always puzzling how such thin watch could have had comparable WR of much thicker Rolex. However, people thought it is Patek, premium manufacturer so they must have figured it out. They didn’t, they lied. Now we come to my comment, TS could have improved WR to the claimed number. Instead, he chose to put round movement into square watch, sorry, meant to say he downgraded WR to the lower number. And that is PP way under TS!!!

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Lower WR rating is correction down, isn’t it? English is my second language so please forgive me if it ain’t clear.

Now, as to the poetry for people who bought the most idiotic “justification “ ever. Take Rolex, does one have any issues taking 100m GMT to 100m? I do it with my Pepsi all the time, something like 50m usually. Do I need clarification and annual water testing? Absolutely no. It just works, that is luxury!

PP used to think it needed to complete with Rolex and therefore slapped 100m WR to match Rolex. It was never capable of that. Just the thinness of watch would have indicated that. It was always puzzling how such thin watch could have had comparable WR of much thicker Rolex. However, people thought it is Patek, premium manufacturer so they must have figured it out. They didn’t, they lied. Now we come to my comment, TS could have improved WR to the claimed number. Instead, he chose to put round movement into square watch, sorry, meant to say he downgraded WR to the lower number. And that is PP way!!!!

If you have any proof of a 5167 or a 5711 not being able to reach 120m I would be happy to learn about it.

TS, or PP, did not change anything to the structure of the timepieces that were rated 120m. How is that downgrading?

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by byow

If you have any proof of a 5167 or a 5711 not being able to reach 120m I would be happy to learn about it.

TS, or PP, did not change anything to the structure of the timepieces that were rated 120m. How is that downgrading?

Recognition of mistaken spec and restatement to the downside is called downgrade..

If u need proof, login to the PP website, and check specs for yourself. Specs are there for a reason. PP doesn’t believe its watch can safely go much beyond 30m. Do you need more proof????

[Gebbeth]

The water resistance rating going down, and the arguments TS or Patek is making for the downgrade is laughable.

I don't understand the arguments here, but none look good:

(1) 120M was never achievable. It was just a marketing ploy to make the watch inline with other "sports" brands. It was always only 30M. So it was basically a lie.

(2) It really is 120M, but we're baking in a cushion so people don't go diving in the thing. That's one heck of a cushion....90M of cushion. This doesn't sound or smell right.

(3) The entire industry is lying about their water resistance. All watches 100M or more are really just around 30M. Okay, that's easily tested, and I think it has been. There would have been many many lawsuits or claims of fraud if the entire industry was kidding itself.

(4) Patek has discovered a new measurement system, something heretofore never discovered by human kind. In this new system, 120M is really 30M and the rest goes from there. We all know the probability of this being correct (other than in TS' mind).

The fact is if the Nautilus was originally 120M and now is rated for 30M, that's a downgrade no matter what TS says this means for swim-ability. Whether 30M means you can swim in it or not, it doesn't matter. That's a straw man argument as to what the watch is actually rated for, not what you can do with it.

If Patek is calling out other watchmakers for claiming 3 bar on a luxury watch with a push down crown, but also saying to owners not to swim with it, I get that, but that doesn't change the fact that you had a watch "rated" and "advertised" as 120M that is now being rated at 30M. This being a sports watch with the name "Nautilus" on it.

ALS says 120M for the Odysseus, and I am assuming that is not a lie. Omega says 300M, and I am assuming that's not a lie (with METAS, it is certified as being correct to even more, since testing has to be above 100% of the rated WR).

What Patek is doing lately, it just makes your head ache after awhile.

[byow]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Recognition of mistaken spec and restatement to the downside is called downgrade..

If u need proof, login to the PP website, and check specs for yourself. Specs are there for a reason. PP doesn’t believe its watch can safely go much beyond 30m. Do you need more proof????

PP never said that they do not believe their timepieces could not be used to dive as deep as 120m.

The change in communication is not related to a change in construction of the timepiece.