Urwerk

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

I like how you described this, and this is also how I feel when purchasing an independent piece. Great design is a one-off expense to the company that can be replicated at zero incremental cost but at 100 incremental profit. That is different for hand-finishing as here every single case, movement and handset will require incremental expense of time, energy and skill. That is what I am willing to pay for. In essence, and using a very broad brush, this comes down to looking at a company’s margins. The assumption would be that, all other things being equal, the lower the margin the higher the level of finishing.

You are not buying a building, rather an art piece… your logic is not even correct as far as comp for someone proficient in finishing vs designing/ manufacturing complicated movements, cases and so on..

I hate to see u apply the same logic to Rothko or Mondrian…

[ChetBaker]

Well. Don’t think you can compare high-end independent watches with a building or art. That’s not to say a watch cannot be art but any comparison will be highly flawed, eg because most valuable art are original one-off works. For the same money, I’d rather have the original painting than an offset print of that same painting, where no significant incremental manual work is required to produce it.

[vliberman]

We are talking postmodern art, think Warhol silk prints, Koons sculptures and such… all were limited run production of like objects… idea is the key…

[ts3]

I am happy to pay for design as I value looks and comfort most. The best finishing doesn't help if I don't like the looks of a watch or if it doesn't fit well / isn't sized ok for my wrist. I could name a bunch of hot new independents where I don't like the aesthetics. That said, while I like Urwerk from a design point of view I also find them expensive for what I'd be getting.

[vliberman]

I can’t even name one recent independent watchmaker who made any strides in the direction of design innovation the way DeBethune, MBF and Urwerk had… they all produce boring well finished pieces… boring

[ChetBaker]

Originally Posted by vliberman

We are talking postmodern art, think Warhol silk prints, Koons sculptures and such… all were limited run production of like objects… idea is the key…

That may be the case. But these artists also produce original one-off works, which I would much rather have. Anyway, we’re digressing. Point is - pound for pound, you can get comparably priced watches with similar design ideas but better finishing, which is where the bulk of the man hours and cost are spent.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

That may be the case. But these artists also produce original one-off works, which I would much rather have. Anyway, we’re digressing. Point is - pound for pound, you can get comparably priced watches with similar design ideas but better finishing, which is where the bulk of the man hours and cost are spent.

Could u name one? Where design ideas rule plus finishing…not challenging, rather truly interested

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by vliberman

I can’t even name one recent independent watchmaker who made any strides in the direction of design innovation the way DeBethune, MBF and Urwerk had… they all produce boring well finished pieces… boring

I respect those of you who are finish freaks, but I tend to fall in the vliberman camp of thought. Innovative design (movement and case) is more interesting than movement finish. Given enough time and effort, many monkeys can polish. Most monkeys cannot innovate. If they are finishing to a Patek level, which many independents do, they are already doing more than enough.

vliberman, I would say that David Candaux, Vianney Halter, and maybe Grubal Forsey should be included in your list.

[ChetBaker]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Could u name one? Where design ideas rule plus finishing…not challenging, rather truly interested

De Bethune and MB&F seem to have better finishing on certain models and are pushing things forward in design. Moser does as well, but does not have generally have high-level finishing (except on their minute repeater watches).

So while finishing and design can be equally important, I’d rather have both assuming similar price points. I believe that is where this conversation started.

[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

So while finishing and design can be equally important, I’d rather have both assuming similar price points. I believe that is where this conversation started.

Way to bring it home. Well put.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by ChetBaker

De Bethune and MB&F seem to have better finishing on certain models and are pushing things forward in design. Moser does as well, but does not have generally have high-level finishing (except on their minute repeater watches).

So while finishing and design can be equally important, I’d rather have both assuming similar price points. I believe that is where this conversation started.

Yeah I was just pointing out on stuff like the lm101 you do get a very good modern design with excellent execution.

[llngoc]

Did anyone see the new EMC SR-71? It is just so special.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Did anyone see the new EMC SR-71? It is just so special.

Yea, very cool. But damn limited to 10.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

Yea, very cool. But damn limited to 10.

And the price…