Genuine Tudor 94110?

[orly]

Heya all, do you think this is a genuine Tudor 94110? Any red flags? 🤔 The seller said the bracelet isn't original but apparently everything else is.

[antrolexsub]

It’s a complete fake.

[orly]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

It’s a complete fake.

Thanks man. Could you help me by pointing out a few obvious red flags to look out for?

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by orly

Thanks man. Could you help me by pointing out a few obvious red flags to look out for?

The very first thing I go to is the model no engravings. Real old subs have the / at 45 degrees on all old pieces, not 60 degrees....

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

@ Linesider has a a good summary of what to look out for in 9411 which calls out most of the key issues. This includes oversized hands as one.

Agree with the others. The 2784 movement is also not original.

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

The decoration isn’t too bad - do you think it comes off a different Tudor model?


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Any Tudor or other high end finished

Originally Posted by orly

As per the comment below, unfortunately members try to refrain from pointing out what the actual discrepancies are with non-genuine ones so those that are just learning about the vintage Tudor/Rolex space like myself find it difficult to spot the fakes from the not. Add in the multitude of variations between each model, and it becomes really quite difficult to know if something is just an obscure variation or a fake. I wasn't sure if posting links is frowned upon as it may be looked at people trying to (secretly) drum up their own listing, but okay will do so.

The issue is that a lot of people try to take our criticism and improve the fakes. Which ultimately ends in defrauding other people. It also takes years of study to get good at this so no amount of throwing all the tells will make it easier.

Best to just ask, but as teckno stated don't expect to find the $10,000 watch at three grand.

[orly]

Originally Posted by linesiders

The issue is that a lot of people try to take our criticism and improve the fakes. Which ultimately ends in defrauding other people. It also takes years of study to get good at this so no amount of throwing all the tells will make it easier.

Thanks, and I understand. Even with some of the discrepancies from your guide, I struggle to see them eg the hands don't look thicker to my eye but others like the second hand sweep is far more obvious.

[orly]

Originally Posted by TuRo

The very first thing I go to is the model no engravings. Real old subs have the / at 45 degrees on all old pieces, not 60 degrees....

Got it, handy tip thanks 👍🏻

[996marty]

Everything looks off. Hands look like they’re on steroids

[orly]

Originally Posted by 996marty

Everything looks off. Hands look like they’re on steroids

As in, too large? I can see the snowflake on the seconds hand is too long on a genuine one.

[996marty]

Maybe it’s just the angled shot that makes everything look big

[Dom9]

That's a super nasty one! Pointing out the obvious flaws is a bit of a forum no-no as it helps the fakers but I'd run fast from anything without an acrylic bezel pip and I'd be looking at the balance of the movement very carefully.

[interestedwatcher]

It's fake.

[alwayshere]

@ Linesider has a a good summary of what to look out for in 9411 which calls out most of the key issues. This includes oversized hands as one.

Agree with the others. The 2784 movement is also not original.

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

@ Linesider has a a good summary of what to look out for in 9411 which calls out most of the key issues. This includes oversized hands as one.

Agree with the others. The 2784 movement is also not original.

The decoration isn’t too bad - do you think it comes off a different Tudor model?


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[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

The decoration isn’t too bad - do you think it comes off a different Tudor model?


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It doesn't look like a 2784 but more a 2824 re-engraved. You can tell by the distance of the dial feet position in relation to the stem. The 2784 dial feet are "further away" vs. 2824.

The rotor / bridge engraving has been faked before. The whole thing is fake.

[tekno]

Why are you looking @ so many fake snowflakes? This is the second thread recently.

Just link the ad to the forum. Real, minty watches like that are $8-11k


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[orly]

Originally Posted by tekno

Why are you looking @ so many fake snowflakes? This is the second thread recently.

Just link the ad to the forum. Real, minty watches like that are $8-11k


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As per the comment below, unfortunately members try to refrain from pointing out what the actual discrepancies are with non-genuine ones so those that are just learning about the vintage Tudor/Rolex space like myself find it difficult to spot the fakes from the not. Add in the multitude of variations between each model, and it becomes really quite difficult to know if something is just an obscure variation or a fake. I wasn't sure if posting links is frowned upon as it may be looked at people trying to (secretly) drum up their own listing, but okay will do so.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by orly

As per the comment below, unfortunately members try to refrain from pointing out what the actual discrepancies are with non-genuine ones so those that are just learning about the vintage Tudor/Rolex space like myself find it difficult to spot the fakes from the not. Add in the multitude of variations between each model, and it becomes really quite difficult to know if something is just an obscure variation or a fake. I wasn't sure if posting links is frowned upon as it may be looked at people trying to (secretly) drum up their own listing, but okay will do so.

I think what Tekno is saying is, most likely these watches you have raised are selling for well below market price. If thats the case, its likely fake.

There is a nice 9411 on ebay Australia for A$11K.. which looks good and is arguably attractively priced (i'm not affiliated with the seller for the record)

[orly]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

I think what Tekno is saying is, most likely these watches you have raised are selling for well below market price. If thats the case, its likely fake.

There is a nice 9411 on ebay Australia for A$11K.. which looks good and is arguably attractively priced (i'm not affiliated with the seller for the record)

That's the 9411 that I've tried to make an enquiry on after positive feedback from members via his website which is cheaper than eBay. However, he hasn't responded to two enquiries so there's that. And yes, I'm aware if something is too low priced, it may be a fake but you can occasionally come across a decent deal such as the one you've pointed out.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by orly

That's the 9411 that I've tried to make an enquiry on after positive feedback from members via his website which is cheaper than eBay. However, he hasn't responded to two enquiries so there's that. And yes, I'm aware if something is too low priced, it may be a fake but you can occasionally come across a decent deal such as the one you've pointed out.

sure but it comes down to how much you want to invest in learning.

amazing deals generally 1) have very short window of opportunity as many others are up the curve on tells / what to spot and 2) require the ability to travel on the day

If you just want a vintage 9411 to scratch an itch, my advice is to just buy one that has been pre-vetted. Otherwise be prepared to wait a while for that amazing deal...

[tekno]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

I think what Tekno is saying is, most likely these watches you have raised are selling for well below market price. If thats the case, its likely fake.

There is a nice 9411 on ebay Australia for A$11K.. which looks good and is arguably attractively priced (i'm not affiliated with the seller for the record)

That’s what I was trying to say, I am very familiar with this model and have spent hours or days looking for a nice one. I ended up spending $10,500 for what I would consider a top condition 1982, or as nice as I can afford.

It had been touched up/recut. You have to pay to play and if you are looking way below market price you will get nothing but fakes.

A lot of times the “tells” aren’t disclosed because if we make a list of what’s wrong with these watches it just helps the people making fake watches.

It’s also pretty common to have fakers or people with fake watches sign up here, ask about a watch to see if it will pass and they are often taking notes on what needs to be fixed. We try hard not to give these people any knowledge. Lots of them pop in, show off their latest inheritance and never post again.

You are allowed to and I recommend posting links to the watch, it saves everyone so much time. No one here has ever bought a watch out from underneath somebody, we often share links to eBay auctions with each other.

What is your budget?

[orly]

Originally Posted by tekno

That’s what I was trying to say, I am very familiar with this model and have spent hours or days looking for a nice one. I ended up spending $10,500 for what I would consider a top condition 1982, or as nice as I can afford.

It had been touched up/recut. You have to pay to play and if you are looking way below market price you will get nothing but fakes.

A lot of times the “tells” aren’t disclosed because if we make a list of what’s wrong with these watches it just helps the people making fake watches.

It’s also pretty common to have fakers or people with fake watches sign up here, ask about a watch to see if it will pass and they are often taking notes on what needs to be fixed. We try hard not to give these people any knowledge. Lots of them pop in, show off their latest inheritance and never post again.

You are allowed to and I recommend posting links to the watch, it saves everyone so much time. No one here has ever bought a watch out from underneath somebody, we often share links to eBay auctions with each other.

What is your budget?

Maybe I'll just use this thread to ask opinions for any potential purchases? I've got my eyes on either a Tudor or Rolex submariner and to be honest, I just like the aesthetic of the vintage/neo-vintage models which have a creamy/pumpkin lume so I don't mind whichever model it is eg with/without the white gold indices, matte/glossy dial, cyclops/no date etc. I don't particularly like the ones which have the spider dials and spotting. I'd like to keep under the USD8000 ish mark as there is tax and import duties to Australia that I'll need to factor in with the costs.

[007Sub]

fake

[Dom9]

Whilst that watch is stacked with howlers and the movement is clearly 'wrong', as I think I mentioned in another thread; the movement engraving is getting depressingly better. There are definitely the parts out there to do a good fake, these days, and fool all but the most expert. I honestly thought they would leave these alone, after all these years, but the rapid increase in value and popularity has made for treacherous waters.

[Dom9]

I picked up a pretty mint (maybe more luck than judgement) 79090 for ~US$4k a few weeks back. It's a lovely piece! It's not my pumpkin 9411 but it's getting an awful lot of wear and seems to be a great vintage/modern crossover.

Wearing my 76100 lollipop as I type, which has yellow->pumpkin patina as well, so a nice halfway house between the 9411 and 79090... lots of choice out there in the Tudor Sub world.

A few 9401s around at the moment as well, available at reasonable money, if you'll accept some service parts and patina. e.g. from our forum: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=952647

I saw a black 9401 snowflake (looked to have had a reasonably hard life) for even less recently - maybe on here as well or VRF.

[tekno]

Can you stretch to 10-11 in 3 months? I say save up more $ and thank me later. I’d just wait, you want a snowflake obviously.

I did this early on, 2018 I wanted to spend 8-9k because that’s what I had plus a G or so and really wanted a snowflake but a nice flake was VERY hard to find. Lots of parts watches and damaged dial watches popping up back then, Most were beat to hell. Nice ones were not cheap even then.

I started looking at GMT 16750’s because I thought I could make them fit my 8-9k budget only to buy a watch with a damaged dial, a nice one was 12-14 or so back then I believe. 3 watches later, thousands of dollars lost I ended up right where I started with a nice snowflake.

Just save your money and buy the right watch the first time.


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[orly]

Originally Posted by tekno

Can you stretch to 10-11 in 3 months? I say save up more $ and thank me later. I’d just wait, you want a snowflake obviously.

I could stretch it to that right now, but on my watch collecting journey, I've tried to always wait it out and look for well priced watches that are in the condition that I want. Sometimes, I've ponied up and paid over market just because of condition but unless a piece really speaks to me, I won't do so. And yep, I do like the aesthetics of a snowflake over the more neo-vintage models following it.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by orly

I could stretch it to that right now, but on my watch collecting journey, I've tried to always wait it out and look for well priced watches that are in the condition that I want. Sometimes, I've ponied up and paid over market just because of condition but unless a piece really speaks to me, I won't do so. And yep, I do like the aesthetics of a snowflake over the more neo-vintage models following it.

Maybe we can get a list of good dealers in the outback… that should help.


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[996marty]

IMG_0480.jpeg

Originally Posted by orly

i could stretch it to that right now, but on my watch collecting journey, i've tried to always wait it out and look for well priced watches that are in the condition that i want. Sometimes, i've ponied up and paid over market just because of condition but unless a piece really speaks to me, i won't do so. And yep, i do like the aesthetics of a snowflake over the more neo-vintage models following it.

I’ve posted a picture of the one I bought via Leonard Joel’s in Melbourne they are a really good auction house that I’ve used over the years. They recently had an unbelievable sale of ex military watches with a Tudor MN going for a bargain price so they are out there. Watch vault in Melbourne is another place that have been known to sell the odd one from time to time.

[Jaegodylan]

Here’s a weird one cheap on the Bay

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/186576728313