Refinishing - How to Tell?

[illiguy]

Besides the obvious (looking new), how easy or difficult is it to determine whether a case has been refinished via laser by the likes of a LAWW, Rolliworks, or ZWR … especially if the case is thick to begin with?

[Dan S]

If someone says it's easy to tell, they are probably one of the top experts in the world, who can immediately recognize a variation from the original shape of the chamfers, etc.

For the rest of us, it's not always easy, but there are certain signs one can look for from various angles. Like anything with vintage watches, it takes a lot of practice and observation.

[harry in montreal]

I think that these watches were generally well worn and enjoyed. When you see nice bevels that have marks and gashes in them I accept the concept of originality. When they are gleaming and pristine, I just can’t accept it. I just feel more comfortable buying watches with age related wear

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I think that these watches were generally well worn and enjoyed. When you see nice bevels that have marks and gashes in them I accept the concept of originality. When they are gleaming and pristine, I just can’t accept it. I just feel more comfortable buying watches with age related wear

Note to self: put watches in the rock tumbler before selling to Harry. ;-)

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Note to self: put watches in the rock tumbler before selling to Harry. ;-)

[lupus66]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I think that these watches were generally well worn and enjoyed. When you see nice bevels that have marks and gashes in them I accept the concept of originality. When they are gleaming and pristine, I just can’t accept it. I just feel more comfortable buying watches with age related wear

this

[Filipão]

I'm looking forward to read the experts' opinions!

Personally I run from too pretty old cases, but what do I know...

[MorningTundra]

Keep in mind many older references were hand-finished, resulting in minor variations in each one.

[illiguy]

In which year, time period did Rolex stop hand finishing?

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by illiguy

In which year, time period did Rolex stop hand finishing?

It was definitely still going on in the 90s according to a former head of consumer service.

[MrChamfers]

I don't see any downside to beefing up a case that has been over polished.
If you are only interested in museum grade safe queens that will never get dinged, then sure, laser welding is not for you.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

I don't see any downside to beefing up a case that has been over polished.
If you are only interested in museum grade safe queens that will never get dinged, then sure, laser welding is not for you.

I think the OP is simply asking whether it is possible to tell the difference between original and refinished, not whether we approve of refinishing. Frankly, the "laser" part of the question was a bit of a distraction IMO. Some people don't seem to understand that laser welding is just a way to add material, and it leaves an extremely rough raw blobby surface. Refinishing still has to be performed, laser welding or no laser welding. And basically nobody can tell if laser welding has been performed, unless they use some sort of high tech process. So I assume that we are really talking about the refinishing part.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think the OP is simply asking whether it is possible to tell the difference between original and refinished, not whether we approve of refinishing. Frankly, the "laser" part of the question was a bit of a distraction IMO. Some people don't seem to understand that laser welding is just a way to add material, and it leaves an extremely rough raw blobby surface. Refinishing still has to be performed, laser welding or no laser welding. And basically nobody can tell if laser welding has been performed, unless they use some sort of high tech process. So I assume that we are really talking about the refinishing part.

Yes, that’s right. I messaged with one of the leaders in this space, and here is what they wrote:

“Our speciality is not removing more than .10 of material from each lug. That’s about the width of a human hair. We use the laser extensively to achieve this minimal loss and we have great results where loss is prevented.”

Seems this answers the question and aligns with your initial response, Dan.

[RFC]

Any downside from refinishing a 1680 or 5513 say with Rolliworks that has previously been polished? Apart from cost or making a worn vintage look new. Both are valid objections too.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by RFC

Any downside from refinishing a 1680 or 5513 say with Rolliworks that has previously been polished? Apart from cost or making a worn vintage look new. Both are valid objections too.

If previously polished already, and enough to have you ask, I think you should go for it.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by illiguy

If previously polished already, and enough to have you ask, I think you should go for it.

The watch is original only once, if it went already under the wheel I see no problem in refinishing it.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by fmc000

The watch is original only once, if it went already under the wheel I see no problem in refinishing it.

Exactly! My premise was always the same. There are a handful of watches that haven't been polished once at LEAST by Rolex in service. Sure maybe in some way that is a Cool Thing...but even before laser...a good case guy could really fix some bad work. Sure some metal was lost but often times much less than one might think. Now...ROLEX laser welds...in Geneva. It's an up charge.
I'm working on a 1675 right now..that has some serious corrosion issues. It's an heirloom...it will be much better and virtually undetectable from an NOS service case when this done by a properly trained person.

Most of the watches we are talking about now were common as road fill when this all started back in the late 90s early 2000s...
If it's a really insanely rare 40s or 50s watch or some mil spec sub or Comex or whatever that might be a real ooh or ah. But...watches got used, serviced and polished. No offense...I've owned several myself, but let's agree 5513's and 1675's are COMMON...there were HUNDREDS in pawn shops in the 80s for under 500.00 They're not museum worthy on a grand scale. Wear what you like and how you enjoy it to appear. Nothing wrong with a nice crisp serviced case with proper chamfers and dimensions. The truth be told, wear it 40 years without babying it...and who could tell? Anyone who saw an original when new will be dead.

[illiguy]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Exactly! My premise was always the same. There are a handful of watches that haven't been polished once at LEAST by Rolex in service. Sure maybe in some way that is a Cool Thing...but even before laser...a good case guy could really fix some bad work. Sure some metal was lost but often times much less than one might think. Now...ROLEX laser welds...in Geneva. It's an up charge.
I'm working on a 1675 right now..that has some serious corrosion issues. It's an heirloom...it will be much better and virtually undetectable from an NOS service case when this done by a properly trained person.

Most of the watches we are talking about now were common as road fill when this all started back in the late 90s early 2000s...
If it's a really insanely rare 40s or 50s watch or some mil spec sub or Comex or whatever that might be a real ooh or ah. But...watches got used, serviced and polished. No offense...I've owned several myself, but let's agree 5513's and 1675's are COMMON...there were HUNDREDS in pawn shops in the 80s for under 500.00 They're not museum worthy on a grand scale. Wear what you like and how you enjoy it to appear. Nothing wrong with a nice crisp serviced case with proper chamfers and dimensions. The truth be told, wear it 40 years without babying it...and who could tell? Anyone who saw an original when new will be dead.

It would seem refinishing through a proper professional enables this. Would think it’s important to get the correct chamfers, based on period, however.

[harry in montreal]

Yes to the tumbler!

[1675-David]

[lupus66]

and why make an old 5513 case look like new. like a boob job.

[tekno]

Originally Posted by lupus66

and why make an old 5513 case look like new. like a boob job.

When a watch is poorly polished and the case is rounded out - but the dial/insert/bezel maybe the band is splendid… this is when case refinishing shines.

If the case was sleeve polished and naturally worn I think it would be criminal to refinish it… but if it was polished by a heavy handed watchmaker why not.


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