AP CPO program?

[VogelPhoenix]

"Audemars Piguet is entering the thriving second-hand market by launching its own certified pre-owned (CPO) program by the end of 2023, CEO François-Henry Bennahmias announced at a luxury recruitment conference in Paris this week. The initiative makes Audemars Piguet (AP) the second major luxury watch brand to invest in the pre-loved market after industry leader Rolex took the industry by surprise in December by announcing the roll-out of its own CPO initiative. "

https://www.instagram.com/p/CoAa2KVreuv/

Seemed inevitable after Rolex and then Patek made the first steps. Will be interesting to see the implementation details. E.g., in the Rolex case all the buying, holding and selling (incl. pricing) is handled by the individual ADs. One assumes that in AP's case this will be more coordinated across boutiques.

[only1swami]

lets the games....begin. looking forward to the fine print

might be a good way for clients to offload pieces as needed after 1.5-2+ years directly to their boutiques versus grey

Shouldn't happen with every piece but if one wants to offload something that they're at peace with in favor of something closer to their grail pieces...

[Armis]

RM also has a relatively smaller CPO program at different locations around the world. Although in the US it is only through Westime in California.
Urwerk offers preowned pieces through its website, but I believe CPO programs are across wider networks.
Interesting development either way.

[In-N-Out]

Not sure how this all plays out. But I suspect this is attempt to buy back some of the gray inventory out there in circulation as they recognize prices are falling and want to stabilize prices to make retail price still seem attractive versus artificially inflated CPO prices

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

Not sure how this all plays out. But I suspect this is attempt to buy back some of the gray inventory out there in circulation as they recognize prices are falling and want to stabilize prices to make retail price still seem attractive versus artificially inflated CPO prices

This isn’t a knee jerk reaction to the market as it is today, this has been in the works since before the crazy market bubble.


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[SMD]

They have been talking about this forever. Wonder what caused them to move now and not many years ago?

[Reign]

Originally Posted by SMD

They have been talking about this forever. Wonder what caused them to move now and not many years ago?

Entirely a guess but maybe the crash in prices makes the CPO program more doable and easier to execute vs when prices were many multiples above retail which no one had any idea on how to manage the arbitrage


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[AEV]

Very interesting.
In the last few days, I watched some old videos of FHB from SIHH in 2017/2018 and he was saying that they are actively looking into it. The biggest problem at that time was finding enough skilled watchmakers to service the watches as they start coming in.
Apparently they managed to scale up.

I'd imagine this will be done via the boutiques/houses.

[LUDA]

They told me about this at the AP House about 2 months ago, being done in a better and more fair way than what Rolex is doing for now.

Easier to get offered a new watch when you sell them back your old one, even if you could get more money elsewhere.

[crispyness87]

Was aLeah’s under the impression that AP values customers that buy and hold their watches. Not sure how that view has changed with AP announcing CPO.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by crispyness87

Was aLeah’s under the impression that AP values customers that buy and hold their watches. Not sure how that view has changed with AP announcing CPO.

As always the masters make the rules, of course it won’t matter if you “flip” your watches thru the CPO program. I’m sure this will be rewarded. Unfair sure , surprising nope


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by dauster

As always the masters make the rules, of course it won’t matter if you “flip” your watches thru the CPO program. I’m sure this will be rewarded. Unfair sure , surprising nope

Why not first see what the implementation looks like, before getting all worked up? I'd expect the terms to include a stipulation that the watch is X years old, discontinued or perhaps both (similar to the Rolex CPO program 3-yr cutoff).

[NTCP8]

Originally Posted by dauster

As always the masters make the rules, of course it won’t matter if you “flip” your watches thru the CPO program. I’m sure this will be rewarded. Unfair sure , surprising nope


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AP doesn't mind if you sell your watches... My SA even told me it's normal that your taste changes over time. How many of you actually got black listed by selling an AP/PP/Rolex, etc.? I sold a few, and I still get calls for watches.

I prefer to buy through a CPO program instead of grey. I avoid watching YT grey dealers channels, cringe... These people ruin the brand, at least for me. Yes, I can't generalise it, but unfortunately many of them follow a few popular channels. Who even wants to buy from these charlatans. From the moment they open their mouth I want to punch them in their face.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by NTCP8

AP doesn't mind if you sell your watches... My SA even told me it's normal that your taste changes over time. How many of you actually got black listed by selling an AP/PP/Rolex, etc.? I sold a few, and I still get calls for watches.

I prefer to buy through a CPO program instead of grey. I avoid watching YT grey dealers channels, cringe... These people ruin the brand, at least for me. Yes, I can't generalise it, but unfortunately many of them follow a few popular channels. Who even wants to buy from these charlatans. From the moment they open their mouth I want to punch them in their face.

Whatever makes you comfortable seems like the CPO is for you then. Curious out it will turn out. But I know multiple people that got blacklisted by AP for selling a watch under 2 years of ownership


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by dauster

Whatever makes you comfortable seems like the CPO is for you then. Curious out it will turn out. But I know multiple people that got blacklisted by AP for selling a watch under 2 years of ownership

NTCP8 will just bring his family lawyer to sue them for more watches...

[Mini2]

Happy to buy a code 1159 with 40% discount from a boutique haha

[thekman]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Happy to buy a code 1159 with 40% discount from a boutique haha

I am really interested to see how they price codes given that they are selling at huge discounts preowned. I still find it pretty weird to buy a preowned watch from the brand higher than MSRP.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by thekman

I am really interested to see how they price codes given that they are selling at huge discounts preowned. I still find it pretty weird to buy a preowned watch from the brand higher than MSRP.

Which is pretty much the whole issue for both Rolex and now AP.

Buy a new xyz for £25,000 and wait 1/2/whatever months or years……OR buy a used CPO one for £40,000 today.

It’s just not a happy conversation for any brand in the luxury consumer goods market in my view.

[squall1]

Originally Posted by GW44

It’s just not a happy conversation for any brand in the luxury consumer goods market in my view.

I have been wondering about this since the Rolex announcement. Has anyone been tracking of those CPO units are actually moving at the inflated prices?

A separate question, I wonder if AP will roll this out world wide or limit it regionally in some way.

Looking forward to the details.

[thekman]

Originally Posted by GW44

Which is pretty much the whole issue for both Rolex and now AP.

Buy a new xyz for £25,000 and wait 1/2/whatever months or years……OR buy a used CPO one for £40,000 today.

It’s just not a happy conversation for any brand in the luxury consumer goods market in my view.

I agree. It just doesn't look good.

[RiRi]

Originally Posted by GW44

Which is pretty much the whole issue for both Rolex and now AP.

Buy a new xyz for £25,000 and wait 1/2/whatever months or years……OR buy a used CPO one for £40,000 today.

It’s just not a happy conversation for any brand in the luxury consumer goods market in my view.

Either way, they can always argue that these items are scarce - whether due to technical / skill limitations or artificially limited ...

I don't think that it will be such a problem, as for certain buyers money > time and they will just snap it up - the others are perhaps happy to wait.

[RiRi]

Did anyone recently hear more about the CPO? IIRC they wanted to start their programme end of year

[AEV]

It will be next year.
FHB confirmed it in a recent interview.

[Gandor]

I feel like the only way AP can implement this without tanking the market is offering to buy back at MSRP or some kind of store credit type deal. A big portion of an APs resale value is in the blacklist.

[TopherMins]

Originally Posted by Gandor

I feel like the only way AP can implement this without tanking the market is offering to buy back at MSRP or some kind of store credit type deal. A big portion of an APs resale value is in the blacklist.

Richard Mille CPO will buy your watch back at 90% what you paid but then you are able to jump the list for a harder to get piece. Assuming AP will do something similar.


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[ackby]

Originally Posted by Gandor

I feel like the only way AP can implement this without tanking the market is offering to buy back at MSRP or some kind of store credit type deal. A big portion of an APs resale value is in the blacklist.

How would they be able to do this when the 41mm RO (exceot blue and green dials) is just around 10% over msrp at greys

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by ackby

How would they be able to do this when the 41mm RO (exceot blue and green dials) is just around 10% over msrp at greys

I'm sure AP CPO watches would command a premium over even the most reputable greys (although I hope they don't go as far as the absurd pricing on many Rolex CPO offerings), while a promise of consideration for future allocations would allow them to acquire the watches at favorable (for AP) cost. They should be able to figure this out.

[IGY]

I really like the sound of that kind of part exchange arrangement. Of course the devil is in the detail: 90% sounds reasonable whereas clearly 50% does not. In between those... well somewhere the equation flips from the consumers' point of view.

Of course, you can keep your AP(s) and buy another AP, or you can burn your bridges with AP and sell elsewhere if you want to unload. But in principle / general terms, I like the sound of this kind of agreement. It strongly incentivises people being favoured with allocations of rare watches not to flip for a fast buck.

[messikens]

IMO this can never really work well and the customer will always feel screwed.

You have such a wide discrepancy between offerings where a Code (QP or otherwise) trades at ~40% discount while a CE skeleton trades at a 150% premium of MSRP.

The only way you solve it consistently is to either screw the seller by offering cents on the dollar OR pricing your pre-owned desired pieces above MSRP, which is basically telling a new client "you'll never get this piece period".

CPO buy-backs are terrible for in-house management because of the customer perception

[Gandor]

Originally Posted by messikens

IMO this can never really work well and the customer will always feel screwed.

You have such a wide discrepancy between offerings where a Code (QP or otherwise) trades at ~40% discount while a CE skeleton trades at a 150% premium of MSRP.

The only way you solve it consistently is to either screw the seller by offering cents on the dollar OR pricing your pre-owned desired pieces above MSRP, which is basically telling a new client "you'll never get this piece period".

CPO buy-backs are terrible for in-house management because of the customer perception

No customer is walking into an AP boutique not understanding the market value of the watches vs MSRP.