Magnetized?

[Easy E]

I have a brand new watch, maybe 2-3 weeks old. I noticed it seemed to be a bit slow, so I measured it a couple of times and turns out it was 15 sec slow per day. Everything else seemed ok, so I just figured it needed to be regulated. Called the Mfg looking for an AD or SC near by and they just had me send it to them - they provided the box and label. They have had it just over a week and called me today and said it was just magnetized and is now running within spec. Suppose to ship back tomorrow.

I have always been under the impression that a magnetized movement will run faster, not slower. Are both possible? How does that work?

[subtona]

Magnetized is typically fast.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

I agree - magnetized watches run fast.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Easy E

I have a brand new watch,

What Watch was it thats giving you problems ?

Many of the modern watches have silicone springs etc to stop watches from getting magnetised or showing the effects at least.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

What Watch was it thats giving you problems ?

Many of the modern watches have silicone springs etc to stop watches from getting magnetised or showing the effects at least.

Panerai 914, P.5000 caliber

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Panerai 914, P.5000 caliber

Your watch should have a Glucydur balance.

I have copied below some text on Glucydur

Glucydur is an alloy of beryllium and bronze (aka beryllium copper aka BeCu or CuBe on the periodic table of elements) used for balance wheels. The alloy is known for its resistance to thermal expansion, non-magnetic properties and resistance to corrosion.

Your watch should not be that magnetised unless you have been going to places that others dare not go ...

Do you cook much at home ? Do you have an Induction Hob ? They are known to magnetise watches (and play havoc with heart pacemakers !)

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Your watch should have a Glucydur balance.

I have copied below some text on Glucydur

Glucydur is an alloy of beryllium and bronze (aka beryllium copper aka BeCu or CuBe on the periodic table of elements) used for balance wheels. The alloy is known for its resistance to thermal expansion, non-magnetic properties and resistance to corrosion.

Your watch should not be that magnetised unless you have been going to places that others dare not go ...

Do you cook much at home ? Do you have an Induction Hob ? They are known to magnetise watches (and play havoc with heart pacemakers !)

Thanks for that. Negative on the induction hob. What's more odd, the watch hasn't left my office since I bought. I had my TG in the office so I just kept the watch there to "break in." That and up until this week it has been forth layer of hell hot where I live so the leathers are all on standby. So, nothing I can think of.

So, given this statement
The alloy is known for its resistance to thermal expansion, non-magnetic properties and resistance to corrosion.

and as others have mentions magnetized watches run fast - What gives?

[ap1]

Obvi I don’t know much about the sitch but what I can say is these companies just fix (Often times botch the attempt a few times) then send back with little to no information.
If it’s no longer 15 secs slow then slap it on and enjoy I’d say. Or sell if the not knowing part hurts which I also get and have been guilty of.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by ap1

Obvi I don’t know much about the sitch but what I can say is these companies just fix (Often times botch the attempt a few times) then send back with little to no information.
If it’s no longer 15 secs slow then slap it on and enjoy I’d say. Or sell if the not knowing part hurts which I also get and have been guilty of.

I currently prefer to keep and wear, I like the watch. They did call me and say it's "fixed," IDK. Will find out soon enough. If it was truly magnetized then OK. The fix is simple enough. I am just trying to understand how/why magnetized equals slow, in this case.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Easy E

currently I am just trying to understand how/why magnetized equals slow, in this case.

From my limited experience magnetised watches can be unpredictable in their manifestation of errors.

I have had magnetised watches before (Usually my fault !) and they have not just run slow or fast for that matter.

I have found magnetised watches can have "A mind of their own" and run fast or slow and change daily .. No known or perceivable logic at all.

There are reports on the web about the P.5000 caliber being unreliable and needing regulation straight out of the box (aka New) and once regulated they are fine. The unreliability in these cases are nothing to do with magnetism but just poor quality control during manufacture.

Your AD may say its magnetised but did he check for magnetism and if so he would have been able to tell you precisely what parts are magnetised and what parts are not.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

From my limited experience magnetised watches can be unpredictable in their manifestation of errors.

I have had magnetised watches before (Usually my fault !) and they have not just run slow or fast for that matter.

I have found magnetised watches can have "A mind of their own" and run fast or slow and change daily .. No known or perceivable logic at all.

There are reports on the web about the P.5000 caliber being unreliable and needing regulation straight out of the box (aka New) and once regulated they are fine. The unreliability in these cases are nothing to do with magnetism but just poor quality control during manufacture.

Your AD may say its magnetised but did he check for magnetism and if so he would have been able to tell you precisely what parts are magnetised and what parts are not.

Thanks for the input. I am dealing straight with the Mfg, no AD. They did not say which parts were magnetized, but maybe I can call back and find out.

[saxo3]

Magnetized?

Can you post your machine results before you sent the watch in and after you received it back?

What was the beat setting on your machine and how did you choose it? Did you select the beats offered by the machine or did you dial the numbers?

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Magnetized?

Can you post your machine results before you sent the watch in and after you received it back?

What was the beat setting on your machine and how did you choose it? Did you select the beats offered by the machine or did you dial the numbers?

I can and will post. Watch won’t be back to me until Tuesday, I’m traveling for work until Wednesday. Maybe end of next week-ish.

I did just set the machine to auto, set the amp to 50 and went with that.

I still find slow from magnetized odd. I also find it odd that a brand new watch that had a total travel radius of about 12 ft, once I got it, could be magnetized. The only possible explanation is it came to me that way, or in transit. All just odd.

[Dr.Stu]

I think it was most likely a QC issue such as debris in the movement or a loosened screw or some such issue, or perhaps some impact during shipping, but it’s easier for the manufacture to just stay “magnetism” then to admit to a potential QC issue.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

I can and will post.

As you did not post the machine results before you sent the watch back, I would like to see what the amplitudes and rates are (before/after).

Originally Posted by Easy E

I did just set the machine to auto, set the amp to 50 and went with that.

OK, you have not set the beat manually. If the beat were to be off by only 1 (21601 or 21599 BPH), this would result in an incorrect rate of + or - 4 sec/day!

Originally Posted by Easy E

I still find slow from magnetized odd. I also find it odd that a brand new watch that had a total travel radius of about 12 ft, once I got it, could be magnetized. The only possible explanation is it came to me that way, or in transit. All just odd.

The claim of magnetization is half-smart, at best, as it is not easy to disprove. I think it is (very) unlikely that the movement was significantly magnetized. I would go back to them and ask the following:

- How did they measure (what instrument) that the watch was magnetized.
- What demagnetizer (instrument) they are using.
- How much (in microTesla) was the magnetisation they measured.

Maybe they always demagnetize incoming watches first, by default, and then measure? More likely, your watch was very poorly regulated, which would be their fault, not yours.

Finally, I have measured one particular watch that was definitely magnetized when the owner approached a very strong magnet. Below I share my machine results before/after our attempts to demagnetize the watch (with a very cheap blue instrument, not recommended) and the results (with the same setup) after this movement was serviced by the brand.

Personally, I have never seen or measured a magnetized watch with negative rates.

Regarding post #14, I think you are right about the QC aspect, but I would doubt a loosened screw or debris inside the movement as this would significantly affect measured caliber amplitudes.

[Easy E]

Watch is back. I give them(PAN) credit, shipped out 8/8, back to me 8/27. All I had asked for was for them to regulate the watch. The reported defect was that the watch was magnetized. The service receipt in the shipping box just states "function check," which is not really surprising.

Before sending in I was -13.32@ 0Hr, and -9.6 @ 24Hr. Again, all I really wanted was to see if they could tighten that up a bit. After service return I am -5.1@ 0Hr and -5.06@ 24Hr. Not bad, not great, definitely different.

This just doesn't "feel" like a magnetized situation to me.

[saxo3]

Did you ask them the questions I listed above?

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Did you ask them the questions I listed above?

I did, but I had to go through the concierge desk. The lady I spoke to said she would look into and let me know what they say. I'm not hopeful.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

I did, but I had to go through the concierge desk. The lady I spoke to said she would look into and let me know what they say. I'm not hopeful.

Any update?

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Any update?

No..?? I haven’t heard back from the lady I spoke with earlier. I have been on the road (currently still) for the better part of 3 out of the last 4 weeks. Pot shot posts from planes and hotels. Hopefully I’m settled back in by the end of this week. Will try to remember to reach back out.

[Easy E]

Finally got a reply. Not really much to see, but I do at least appreciate the follow up.

[Dr.Stu]

It might be interesting to fully wind it & time-graph it when fully wound, then on days 2,4,6, & 8. I think a single mainspring of this size (8 days) would more typically run on the "+" extreme side of the regulation when fully wound and should typically slow down and run on the "-" side as the mainspring uncoils, but would be interesting to see- if you are so inclined.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Easy E

. . .
I have always been under the impression that a magnetized movement will run faster, not slower. Are both possible? How does that work?

Depends on what's magnetized.

The old hairsprings would get magnetized and the coils would stick together, effectively making the spring smaller and it would tick much faster.

Now days springs are better, but other stuff can get magnetized and cause those parts to drag as they are attracted to other ferrous parts. This can cause the watch to run slower - magnetic friction as opposed to actual mechanical friction.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Tools

Depends on what's magnetized.

The old hairsprings would get magnetized and the coils would stick together, effectively making the spring smaller and it would tick much faster.

Now days springs are better, but other stuff can get magnetized and cause those parts to drag as they are attracted to other ferrous parts. This can cause the watch to run slower - magnetic friction as opposed to actual mechanical friction.

This makes sense. Thanks.

[Easy E]

You’re not wrong.