Rolex - keep cutting supply of sports models please!! (What say you?)

[Dusko.Popov]

Is any one else happy that Rolex has cut supply on sports models? Or in the alternative, if given the choice between unlimited supply of sports models and what’s most probably manufactured scarcity, is anyone else happy about the scarcity?

I actually like that Rolex is forward-thinking in order to keep value in the brand. I like that they’re taking (what they feel to be) affirmative steps to ensure value retention in an uncertain mechanical watch future landscape.

If they didn’t do that, I’d imagine that it would be easy to be blindsided. Don’t believe me, go back thirty years and tell Sears and Kmart and Blockbuster that they wouldn’t be on top in their respective industries.

We hear a lot from the people who are salty because they can’t find a Daytona or a 116610lv or a blnr. They’re perpetually on the cusp of leaving the brand for Omega or Iwc. But I think that there are folks that think that Rolex’ strategy is a good one.

Any thoughts from that camp?

[S-F]

I wonder if they really cut supply or just drastically underestimated the year they were about to have? I understand keeping the Daytona in short supply, but keeping their bread and butter out of stock doesn't make much sense.

[Easy E]

I offer this contrary opinion. I think its terrible a strategy. You can find a BLNR, LVc, SkyD, you name it, always have been able to, from the Greys. When I see a classified for sale on a hot, short supply item and in the caption it states "Priced to move fast' at $5,000 over MSRP that's a problem. I don't see how this helps the Rolex persona one bit. Just my opinion.

E-

[Thatguy]

Originally Posted by Easy E

I offer this contrary opinion. I think its terrible a strategy. You can find a BLNR, LVc, SkyD, you name it, always have been able to, from the Greys. When I see a classified for sale on a hot, short supply item and in the caption it states "Priced to move fast' at $5,000 over MSRP that's a problem. I don't see how this helps the Rolex persona one bit. Just my opinion.

E-

Paying over msrp is only a problem if Rolex increases supply and market value drops. If they continue to be scarce market value will stay the same and you won’t get hurt on resale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[polaris72]

Originally Posted by Thatguy

Paying over msrp is only a problem if Rolex increases supply and market value drops. If they continue to be scarce market value will stay the same and you won’t get hurt on resale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure, that logic applies when you have extended Rolex collection and you are unloading some pieces. However, if I am trying to get few new watches, which I intend to keep, I am out of luck.

I am not a flipper, I buy and I keep. It’s not a focused investment as I invest my money elsewhere. But those, and there are many on TRF, who buy to resell, will be also hurt as they will be buying like us at premiums. At some point, this game will stop, and some will be caught up in a deep hole.

[HL65]

I am with you 100% and love the strategy. It’s also no different than what Patek and AP have been doing in last 12 months with their SS sought after pieces. So your watches are in high demand and have great value retention. There are plenty of watches out there that are easy to get and if you had to sell you’d be lucky to get 50% of your money back.

I’ll also say it once again if you want highly sought after pieces build a long term relationship with a solid AD. It has worked well for many of us over the years. When grey dealers are buying watches from flippers for premiums and from AD’s with no discount as supply is tight what do you think they are going to charge? That’s life...Figure out the game and play to win.

[wmcjhi]

Originally Posted by HL65

I am with you 100% and love the strategy. It’s also no different than what Patek and AP have been doing in last 12 months with their SS sought after pieces. So your watches are in high demand and have great value retention. There are plenty of watches out there that are easy to get and if you had to sell you’d be lucky to get 50% of your money back.

I’ll also say it once again if you want highly sought after pieces build a long term relationship with a solid AD. It has worked well for many of us over the years. When grey dealers are buying watches from flippers for premiums and from AD’s with no discount as supply is tight what do you think they are going to charge? That’s life...Figure out the game and play to win.

You know, it's funny that this has to be said these days. In an age where price seems to be the only factor for many folks, it's amazing what just being a nice person and building a business relationship can do. Spot on, thanks for pointing it out!

[ostatedchi]

Originally Posted by wmcjhi

You know, it's funny that this has to be said these days. In an age where price seems to be the only factor for many folks, it's amazing what just being a nice person and building a business relationship can do. Spot on, thanks for pointing it out!

My only issue with this is that for many of us, we'll never purchase enough watches to build a relationship with an AD.

I buy an Explorer 1 this year and in 5 years I go back in to look at a DateJust, they'll not care that I am a repeat customer. At least not enough to make it worthwhile to me to pay the extra +tax I'm going to be charged. That little volume is inconsequential to them.

So for the vast majority of us, going grey is the way.

[wmcjhi]

Originally Posted by ostatedchi

My only issue with this is that for many of us, we'll never purchase enough watches to build a relationship with an AD.

I buy an Explorer 1 this year and in 5 years I go back in to look at a DateJust, they'll not care that I am a repeat customer. At least not enough to make it worthwhile to me to pay the extra +tax I'm going to be charged. That little volume is inconsequential to them.

So for the vast majority of us, going grey is the way.

I certainly understand and agree, although I think it's also possible to build a relationship before making a purchase. Just going in, asking for what you want, having a nice chat about their business and the watches you're looking for, others they carry, etc goes a long way. A lot of people are pretty rude these days, it's amazing what being a nice, normal person can do. And, I'd guess the majority of ADs are also jewelry stores, so if they're also nice people, you'll have a hookup and relationship builder on that too!

[Speed]

Originally Posted by wmcjhi

I certainly understand and agree, although I think it's also possible to build a relationship before making a purchase. Just going in, asking for what you want, having a nice chat about their business and the watches you're looking for, others they carry, etc goes a long way. A lot of people are pretty rude these days, it's amazing what being a nice, normal person can do. And, I'd guess the majority of ADs are also jewelry stores, so if they're also nice people, you'll have a hookup and relationship builder on that too!

This might work in a small town at a Mom and Pop owned AD. If you live in a big city with a lot of international travelers passing through...no way. Sales people come and go...as do managers. None of these people want to let you try on Watch after Watch and BS with you. Most of them don’t know a thing about Watches - or even care for them from what I can see...so unless you’re buying Watch after Watch at MSRP fugheddabout it!!!

[Galibier]

Originally Posted by HL65

I’ll also say it once again if you want highly sought after pieces build a long term relationship with a solid AD. It has worked well for many of us over the years. When grey dealers are buying watches from flippers for premiums and from AD’s with no discount as supply is tight what do you think they are going to charge? That’s life...Figure out the game and play to win.

That’s great if you want to buy a number of watches but I don’t. I want a SS date Sub only. It’s the same with Porsche, I want a GT3 RS but don’t want to buy their regular models.

I don’t want to have to buy a succession of items I don’t want in order to buy the item I do want. This fuels the inflated used market.

[SeaDweller50]

Originally Posted by HL65

I am with you 100% and love the strategy. It’s also no different than what Patek and AP have been doing in last 12 months with their SS sought after pieces. So your watches are in high demand and have great value retention. There are plenty of watches out there that are easy to get and if you had to sell you’d be lucky to get 50% of your money back.

I’ll also say it once again if you want highly sought after pieces build a long term relationship with a solid AD. It has worked well for many of us over the years. When grey dealers are buying watches from flippers for premiums and from AD’s with no discount as supply is tight what do you think they are going to charge? That’s life...Figure out the game and play to win.

Many of us are not in a position to have a relationship with an AD for obvious reasons, that’s why I’ve never purchased from one. They’re not interested in Mr average. I have to make do with eBay, Chrono24 etc. Not that I’m complaining. I love the chase of my next ‘must have’ reference via a private, grey dealer personally.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Galibier

That’s great if you want to buy a number of watches but I don’t. I want a SS date Sub only. It’s the same with Porsche, I want a GT3 RS but don’t want to buy their regular models.

I don’t want to have to buy a succession of items I don’t want in order to buy the item I do want. This fuels the inflated used market.

Originally Posted by Ra_88

Many of us are not in a position to have a relationship with an AD for obvious reasons, that’s why I’ve never purchased from one. They’re not interested in Mr average. I have to make do with eBay, Chrono24 etc. Not that I’m complaining. I love the chase of my next ‘must have’ reference via a private, grey dealer personally.

You have to start somewhere so why not start with a nice local AD who you can go in and get to know. Whether you buy one or a few over time it all starts with first purchase. To go in and expect a Daytona or SS SkyD now that is clearly a different story as yes the really hard to get watches are typically reserved for long time well known clients. I know many people who have bought one watch and stopped there some on this forum and yes from AD’s. If you don’t want to wait then find a great TS and work with them. At the end of the day I am glad Rolex is dong the things they need to do to keep Rolex moving in the right direction.

[SeaDweller50]

Originally Posted by HL65

You have to start somewhere so why not start with a nice local AD who you can go in and get to know. Whether you buy one or a few over time it all starts with first purchase. To go in and expect a Daytona or SS SkyD now that is clearly a different story as yes the really hard to get watches are typically reserved for long time well known clients. I know many people who have bought one watch and stopped there some on this forum and yes from AD’s. If you don’t want to wait then find a great TS and work with them. At the end of the day I am glad Rolex is dong the things they need to do to keep Rolex moving in the right direction.

I absolutely agree with you 100 percent on Rolex’s current strategy. Long may it continue. I’m just not personally a fan of AD’s.

[Cato]

Originally Posted by Ra_88

I absolutely agree with you 100 percent on Rolex’s current strategy. Long may it continue. I’m just not personally a fan of AD’s.

I bought my first Rolex about ten years ago and was really disappointed with my AD. I thought spending thousands of dollars would have been a nicer experience. I thought I’d get a private room and talk to a first class salesperson. Instead I got a dude in an ill fitting Mens Warehouse suit and a bottle of Stater Bros. Water.

Going grey was a much nicer experience. I bought online and within a couple days it was delivered to my door.

[enjoythemusic]

I would prefer unlimited access to sports models. Second-hand market be damned.

Of course maintaining quality and customer service is a BIG factor too. Companies like Louis Vuitton, Patek Philippe, Ferrari, etc did not (perhaps initially) scale up well during high demand years ago. They lacked the ability to deliver the same high quality while also providing reasonable service (for luxury goods item where service expectations are generally higher).

JMHO YMMV

[ap1]

I like scarcity for watches that I own or am able to acquire. I don’t like it when I can’t.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by ap1

I like scarcity for watches that I own or am able to acquire. I don’t like it when I can’t.

[RazorD]

Originally Posted by ap1

I like scarcity for watches that I own or am able to acquire. I don’t like it when I can’t.

Yeah, that sums it up nicely.

[Quicksilver]

Originally Posted by ap1

I like scarcity for watches that I own or am able to acquire. I don’t like it when I can’t.

Spot on. The most realistic answer here.

[Csu87]

I'm in the camp of open up supply some. sets the second hand market where it should be, and keeps an acceptable stock at ADs.

Makes no sense to have to pay over retail for used watches on the second hand market, but that is the market we are in right now for a majority of the models.

In my experience, the majority that prefer the scarcity are the flippers that are trying to make profit off their fellow rolex enthusiasts, or the brand snobs that value exclusivity over anything horology.

[Wcdhtwn]

As I am not planning to buy anything for a while I'm happy to think my GMT and SD43 are appreciating in value. But when I become a buyer again and if I want a SS sports model I'd be happier if they are available an not months to years of waiting to get what I want.

[Fleetlord]

i posted a thread a few years ago that Rolex was far too available...

It was ridiculous, for a luxury item, how full the cases were with everything except Daytona's....BUT they were in the back if you asked nicely...I mean every AD was absolutely overflowing with watches.

This is much much better. Sales on some references have INCREASED since the allocation. Hulks were kinda "meh" in terms of sales..

Now, since you "can't get one".....4 -5x the sales! Might even see the lowly EXP 2 (which I like) go up in demand if they aren't in your face..

Panerai did this in their early days. Limited production. Hunting for a 000 or 112 at a dealer was part of the fun...People used to post lists of AD availability on forums to assist in finding pieces. Resale was strong. All was good.

Then Panerai went haywire. Made a bunch of watches. Increased availability, number of models, and store fronts. What happened? Well...Panerai isn't so hot anymore...in fact it's pretty COLD.

Look at that stupid "Supreme" brand. Super limited production of whatever it is they do. People can't get enough and spend insane money on the stuff, because you just can't get it.

So...Yep I'm good with ROLEX hitting the brakes.

[Enicarman]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

i posted a thread a few years ago that Rolex was far too available...

It was ridiculous, for a luxury item, how full the cases were with everything except Daytona's....BUT they were in the back if you asked nicely...I mean every AD was absolutely overflowing with watches.

This is much much better. Sales on some references have INCREASED since the allocation. Hulks were kinda "meh" in terms of sales..

Now, since you "can't get one".....4 -5x the sales! Might even see the lowly EXP 2 (which I like) go up in demand if they aren't in your face..

Panerai did this in their early days. Limited production. Hunting for a 000 or 112 at a dealer was part of the fun...People used to post lists of AD availability on forums to assist in finding pieces. Resale was strong. All was good.

Then Panerai went haywire. Made a bunch of watches. Increased availability, number of models, and store fronts. What happened? Well...Panerai isn't so hot anymore...in fact it's pretty COLD.

Look at that stupid "Supreme" brand. Super limited production of whatever it is they do. People can't get enough and spend insane money on the stuff, because you just can't get it.

So...Yep I'm good with ROLEX hitting the brakes.

I thought that it was the watches that mattered, and that a suitable price for the quality of the item would satisfy both parties. Now it seems I have that all wrong; it is how you manipulate the market in order to maintain a premium due to scarcity.
So, we pay x$ for the watch, and y$ for the created scarcity premium.
What is our aim then, to own an available watch at a fair price, or struggle to find the watch we want at an exaggerated price?
I would rather put the money into the watch, than the marketing department.
Charge a fair price and produce enough to satisfy demand - seems to work for most businesses.

[No SUBctitute]

Originally Posted by Enicarman

I would rather put the money into the watch, than the marketing department.
Charge a fair price and produce enough to satisfy demand - seems to work for most businesses.

Seems reasonable. But maybe Rolex is worried that less people will be interested in an unnecessary luxury purchase unless they are getting a status symbol as well as a reliable product.

I would spend thousands of dollars on a watch because it is engineered well and is a work of art. But many people would not. Many would only purchase if its a status symbol, and maybe Rolex thinks that to maintain itself as a status symbol it has to manipulate the market, create scarcity, and maintain a buzz.

[Enicarman]

Originally Posted by No SUBctitute

Seems reasonable. But maybe Rolex is worried that less people will be interested in an unnecessary luxury purchase unless they are getting a status symbol as well as a reliable product.

I would spend thousands of dollars on a watch because it is engineered well and is a work of art. But many people would not. Many would only purchase if its a status symbol, and maybe Rolex thinks that to maintain itself as a status symbol it has to manipulate the market, create scarcity, and maintain a buzz.

Sadly, I think you are correct. Sad, because it keeps me away from buying a new GMT (which, although I can afford it, I can't bring myself to drink the marketing Cool-aid). The old models will have to do, besides my Christopher Ward GMT fills the spot admirably.

[rudegar]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

i posted a thread a few years ago that Rolex was far too available...

It was ridiculous, for a luxury item, how full the cases were with everything except Daytona's....BUT they were in the back if you asked nicely...I mean every AD was absolutely overflowing with watches.

This is much much better. Sales on some references have INCREASED since the allocation. Hulks were kinda "meh" in terms of sales..

Now, since you "can't get one".....4 -5x the sales! Might even see the lowly EXP 2 (which I like) go up in demand if they aren't in your face..

Panerai did this in their early days. Limited production. Hunting for a 000 or 112 at a dealer was part of the fun...People used to post lists of AD availability on forums to assist in finding pieces. Resale was strong. All was good.

Then Panerai went haywire. Made a bunch of watches. Increased availability, number of models, and store fronts. What happened? Well...Panerai isn't so hot anymore...in fact it's pretty COLD.

Look at that stupid "Supreme" brand. Super limited production of whatever it is they do. People can't get enough and spend insane money on the stuff, because you just can't get it.

So...Yep I'm good with ROLEX hitting the brakes.

It would be cool if someone on the forum could really speak authoritatively on how the market has been for Richemont, Swatch and other Eurolux conglomerates v the big independents such as Rolex, Breitling et al. I’d guess that Rolex is performing well, Breitling selling a lot but not as profitably and the big luxo makers hurtin for certain. IWC and other Richemont brands were in the toilet 2-3 years ago. Just speculation.

[yoast]

This... Panerai is the perfect example... I used to love this brand but now....

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

i posted a thread a few years ago that Rolex was far too available...

It was ridiculous, for a luxury item, how full the cases were with everything except Daytona's....BUT they were in the back if you asked nicely...I mean every AD was absolutely overflowing with watches.

This is much much better. Sales on some references have INCREASED since the allocation. Hulks were kinda "meh" in terms of sales..

Now, since you "can't get one".....4 -5x the sales! Might even see the lowly EXP 2 (which I like) go up in demand if they aren't in your face..

Panerai did this in their early days. Limited production. Hunting for a 000 or 112 at a dealer was part of the fun...People used to post lists of AD availability on forums to assist in finding pieces. Resale was strong. All was good.

Then Panerai went haywire. Made a bunch of watches. Increased availability, number of models, and store fronts. What happened? Well...Panerai isn't so hot anymore...in fact it's pretty COLD.

Look at that stupid "Supreme" brand. Super limited production of whatever it is they do. People can't get enough and spend insane money on the stuff, because you just can't get it.

So...Yep I'm good with ROLEX hitting the brakes.

[Mousehunter]

I don’t hate waiting that much. I hate the bs that many AD’s have done. I’ve been bitched at for asking how long a list was. I have been told I was on the list, but told they will sell it to someone else after I am called but before I can make the drive to the dealer.

And I have been told they will call and hold it, because they care about their customers. Who do you think will get my future business.

[wytrader]

Where do you get the information that they cut supply?

9 years of world growth has definitely increased demand maybe thats the problem...