[EWC] Watch out for the FPJ Chronometre Souverain No. 498-CS

[kertong]

UPDATE: EWC reached out to me and let me know the watch was "mistakenly turned on when the new price was adjusted", and the watch itself is at FPJ being serviced as we speak.




--- prior post ---
Watch in question: https://www.europeanwatch.com/watch/...inu-35043.html

I hate to do this. But I don't want another enthusiast getting screwed like I almost did.

- I purchased this watch in June 16th, 2020. $28k.

- Watch has many issues (see below), I send it back. Great return policy, so thanks to EWC for that. I point out evidence of all the issues I documented as reason for the return.

- The day EWC receives the watch, they list it right back up on their site for sale, listed as "like new".

- I email them to ask if this is a mistake. They double down and keep it on the site. I asked if it was a mistake to relist right away given all the flaws I pointed out. They replied - "yes, it should be listed as 'excellent' condition, not 'like new'", and kept it on the site. What??!

- I make an IG post to warn my watch friends and community about this. I promptly get a nastygram from Joshua/Albert of EWC. They tell me that this was an honest mistake and that not all sales employees are aware of the ongoings. They remove the listing, so fair enough - I deleted my IG post.

- 2-3 months later (today) they list the watch right back up for sale, like new, but for $10k more at $38,500. Looking at the photos I see the exact same imperfections I noted and know this is No. 498-CS. See below.

This watch has several, in my opinion, severe and fatal issues. Buyer beware.

However, they listed it right back up for sale as "like new" the same day they By the way, they never apologized - only thing was a "sorry you're not happy with the watch", like it was my fault.

I guess not though, as now 2 months later, the same watch is relisted (see the list of items below, many of those are visible in the photos), for $10k more. I paid $28k for this in June. Already too much for a flawed watch, serviced by someone who had no idea what they were doing. And now all they did was swap the straps and add $10k to the price, but the watch wasn't serviced at all. This is Number 498-CS.

So, decided I had to post a warning here for others. You do not watch this watch. Not at $38k, or even $28k. Francois Paul is would have an aneurysm if you sent this watch in to get it serviced.


Issues - these are photographs I took myself when I had this watch in hand in June:

1) First thing I did was put it on a timegrapher. Thought it was weird that the line was "wavy". After some research, turns out this is due to a bent / off-axis escape wheel or 4th wheel.


2) I start looking closer. I notice scratches on one of the bridges right below the balance wheel (see the scratches by the screw head).


3) I notice the subdial seconds hand is bent upwards:


4) There is a divot / pry mark on the dial edge right by the 8:00 index (at 7:50). You can see this in the new listing as well.


5) I notice flecks or mold on the subdial (very subtle, have to look closely)


6) The lower right 5:00 lug shows weld marks. Good vs Bad (my watch in hand) shown for comparison:



7) They sent the piece to me in a box meant for the resoanance, and underneath the cushion was another card for a resonance they were selling, haha:


8) The 'rivet' pinning one of the bridges down looks mangled, possibly was pried out and re-hammered in? Not 100% sure on this one as I am not intimately familiar with FPJ movements.


9) water drop / ring stain evidence around the tip of the 9?

[AutoBay]

Wow, that is deeply, deeply troubling. Even if this was an honest mistake at first, it's either deeply careless at best or unacceptably misrepresented at worst.

[CorradoBrit]

And I thought EWC had a great rep. I guess they are just as dodgy as so many other dealers. All the defects you pointed out are clearly still present, at least in the current photos which I assume show the condition. Sad to see.
You did the right thing to bring this matter to everyones attention. Kudos

[kertong]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

And I thought EWC had a great rep. I guess they are just as dodgy as so many other dealers. All the defects you pointed out are clearly still present, at least in the current photos which I assume show the condition. Sad to see.
You did the right thing to bring this matter to everyones attention. Kudos

Thank you. Yeah, I bought over the phone, sight unseen, without asking too many questions *because* of EWC's fantastic reputation, and their great return policy (which I still think was one of the better parts of the interaction, haha). They consistently list for top-of-market prices, and I believed they were justified. Was shocked to see the quality of this FPJ that arrived.

I'll keep this thread focused on just my own personal experience that I can confirm and vouch for, but when I posted this up on IG a few months ago I came across a few other folks who have had similar experiences. :O

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by kertong

Thank you. Yeah, I bought over the phone, sight unseen, without asking too many questions *because* of EWC's fantastic reputation, and their great return policy (which I still think was one of the better parts of the interaction, haha). They consistently list for top-of-market prices, and I believed they were justified. Was shocked to see the quality of this FPJ that arrived.

I'll keep this thread focused on just my own personal experience that I can confirm and vouch for, but when I posted this up on IG a few months ago I came across a few other folks who have had similar experiences. :O

Go ahead and repost the IG content. It seems they waited a little time for you to 'move on' and then relisted for the next unsuspecting customer.

[214270Explorer]

Originally Posted by corradobrit

and i thought ewc had a great rep. I guess they are just as dodgy as so many other dealers. All the defects you pointed out are clearly still present, at least in the current photos which i assume show the condition. Sad to see.
You did the right thing to bring this matter to everyones attention. Kudos

x2 What a nightmarish experience. So sorry that you have gone through all this, Ray. A total shame.

[kertong]

Hi all,

EWC immediately reached out to me and have let me know that this watch is currently at FPJ for service. YMMV, but I'll let the matter rest and put the pitchfork down.

[gabbysplace]

Originally Posted by kertong

Hi all,

EWC immediately reached out to me and have let me know that this watch is currently at FPJ for service. YMMV, but I'll let the matter rest and put the pitchfork down.

Wow. I can't believe they had the gall to ask to you stop posting.

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by gabbysplace

Wow. I can't believe they had the gall to ask to you stop posting.

Smacks of incompetency at the very least if you take them at their word or downright dishonesty. I'm leaning towards somewhere in the middle. Listing is still up btw.

[gabbysplace]

OP, thank you for sharing this. I'm sorry, shocked and frankly disgusted by what happened here. Buyer beware.

[77T]

So this particular seller is also issuing a veiled threat IMHO.



They want to “be clear”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[kertong]

Originally Posted by 77T

They want to “be clear”.

Haha, yeah. I'm also being "clear" by sticking to facts, I'm not out to make up stories or get something out of this and there is nothing for me to gain by putting this out there.

Either way, it is what it is. Nobody is perfect, even the most reputable stores make mistakes, but reputations are built on how mistakes are handled and taken care of. My personal experience, and opinion, is that my interactions with them did not lead me to believe that reputation was accurate.

I have no way of knowing whether EWC's mistakes are honest or not, so assuming good intent, I will operate as if they are and consider this matter closed. In which case, this is a moot point that they've made a few mistakes in a row relisting this watch. I'll leave my experience up here as an FYI so that the reader can make their own judgement call.

[AutoBay]

I don't buy it. First of all, completely unacceptable for them to threaten you - this watch IS their reputation, as every watch they sell is. Second, let them post the service request dated prior to you calling them out, and third, the damn watch is still listen. smh...

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by AutoBay

I don't buy it. First of all, completely unacceptable for them to threaten you - this watch IS their reputation, as every watch they sell is. Second, let them post the service request dated prior to you calling them out, and third, the damn watch is still listen. smh...

They clearly follow the forum and these threads. Unless they show proof that the watch is with FPJ, I'm not buying it. And yes, the listing is still active. And they deleted the asking price.

[illiguy]

Thanks for sharing, OP.

ZERO chance I’d ever use EWC or recommend them after reading about this.

[GSDLover]

Thank you very much for this post. People need to know that there is a risk and consequences for their actions.

[Goochy]

Kertong, I’m not really sure what your issue is. Just for fairness let’s look at it this way. You purchased a watch, sight unseen, and when it arrived you weren’t happy with it, you returned it pointing out your reasons and you received a full refund. You then tried to warn off everyone else and try to show EWC in a poor light. Surely if the watch was purchased by somebody else and they weren’t happy with it, they too would receive a full refund just as you did. You can read every day on this forum that imperfections bother some people but not others, the next purchaser may be perfectly happy with the watch, and if not I’m sure he’d get a full refund, just as you did. Just my take on it, never dealt with EWC.

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by Goochy

Kertong, I’m not really sure what your issue is. Just for fairness let’s look at it this way. You purchased a watch, sight unseen, and when it arrived you weren’t happy with it, you returned it pointing out your reasons and you received a full refund. You then tried to warn off everyone else and try to show EWC in a poor light. Surely if the watch was purchased by somebody else and they weren’t happy with it, they too would receive a full refund just as you did. You can read every day on this forum that imperfections bother some people but not others, the next purchaser may be perfectly happy with the watch, and if not I’m sure he’d get a full refund, just as you did. Just my take on it, never dealt with EWC.

sorry, I politely disagree. The next buyer could not have looked at things closely as the OP did and that would be the end of it, not knowing he has been cheated 'in a way'. It would have been years until the discovery takes place and the new owner would have to face the unfortunate response from the seller along the lines of "I sold the watch x years ago and you are complaing to us now? Who knows how many watchmakers opened the watch" etc.
While I have never dealt with EWC, and have nothing against them. I find it sad that this happened.
There is no excuse for sloppiness in checking the watch's condition before selling it. Thats what your reputation relies on as well. Not just authenticity.

[AutoBay]

Originally Posted by Goochy

Kertong, I’m not really sure what your issue is. Just for fairness let’s look at it this way. You purchased a watch, sight unseen, and when it arrived you weren’t happy with it, you returned it pointing out your reasons and you received a full refund. You then tried to warn off everyone else and try to show EWC in a poor light. Surely if the watch was purchased by somebody else and they weren’t happy with it, they too would receive a full refund just as you did. You can read every day on this forum that imperfections bother some people but not others, the next purchaser may be perfectly happy with the watch, and if not I’m sure he’d get a full refund, just as you did. Just my take on it, never dealt with EWC.

I'm afraid I respectfully disagree, as well. Look, watches in sub-par condition are bought and sold all the time, but this one is listed as "like new" and is listed for a pretty penny. EWC has (had?) an impeccable reputation, but this stuff makes me want to be very cautious about them moving forward. Scratches on the movement? A pry mark on the dial? A WELDED LUG??! These are not imperfections like desk diving marks or swirlies or even a case dent, these are damages that have been covered up and misrepresented. This is not "like new" it's "Fair" at best. And the defensiveness and aggression from EWC is also unacceptable. These watches ARE their reputation.

[Rick Deckard]

Originally Posted by AutoBay

... these are damages that have been covered up and misrepresented. This is not "like new" it's "Fair" at best. And the defensiveness and aggression from EWC is also unacceptable. These watches ARE their reputation.

I would tend to agree and I will stay away from EWC.
They don't seem like a trustworthy source.

Thank you all for posting.

[dchang81]

I've sold watches to EWC and visited their shop many times when I lived in Boston. This is disappointing to see. Either way those tooling marks all over the movement are worrisome, prob from their "in house servicing". If that's from FPJ dear lord, but I tend to doubt that.

[mfnj]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I've sold watches to EWC and visited their shop many times when I lived in Boston. This is disappointing to see. Either way those tooling marks all over the movement are worrisome, prob from their "in house servicing". If that's from FPJ dear lord, but I tend to doubt that.

Like you I also have been to their shop and purchased a number of watches from them. Always without issue and the one time i had an issue with a sticky hand on a blancpain chrono 2 months after purchase they fixed it without questions. That said, a number of issues come up here. First a watch described the way it was being sold. Perhaps it just got past quality control, that happens to the best of them. A simple apology and acknowledgement of this would have gone a long way.

Then the mysterious re-post and the "veiled threat" to the OP, the strange sales post still remaining and the removal of the price. It does not take much to ruin a reputation, or to maintain one. I think they dropped the ball here. Can they fix it? It might be too late but a sincere post here would go a long way.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by mfnj

Like you I also have been to their shop and purchased a number of watches from them. Always without issue and the one time i had an issue with a sticky hand on a blancpain chrono 2 months after purchase they fixed it without questions. That said, a number of issues come up here. First a watch described the way it was being sold. Perhaps it just got past quality control, that happens to the best of them. A simple apology and acknowledgement of this would have gone a long way.

Then the mysterious re-post and the "veiled threat" to the OP, the strange sales post still remaining and the removal of the price. It does not take much to ruin a reputation, or to maintain one. I think they dropped the ball here. Can they fix it? It might be too late but a sincere post here would go a long way.

They are aware of this thread, them not replying is a little disconcerning.....

[JCC296]

Kertong, thanks for posting this.

[Mr. Miami]

Wow. I am shocked by all of this but most shocked about them threatening you not to post. As person in the market for a 5167a, I was considering using them as they appeared to have a good reputation. It’s nice you got your $ back but I’m disgusted by their response to you. I will be staying far away from them and not giving them my business. Thank you for sharing.

[Goochy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miami

Wow. I am shocked by all of this but most shocked about them threatening you not to post. As person in the market for a 5167a, I was considering using them as they appeared to have a good reputation. It’s nice you got your $ back but I’m disgusted by their response to you. I will be staying far away from them and not giving them my business. Thank you for sharing.

Where have you read them “threatening”? Asking somebody politely to “please refrain from posting” is not a threat, not even a vailed threat.

[Mr. Miami]

Originally Posted by Goochy

Where have you read them “threatening”? Asking somebody politely to “please refrain from posting” is not a threat, not even a vailed threat.

That is your opinion, not a fact. Respectfully, I disagree with your opinion.

[Goochy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miami

That is your opinion, not a fact. Respectfully, I disagree with your opinion.

Where is the threat and what are they threatening?

[Mr. Miami]

Originally Posted by Goochy

Where is the threat and what are they threatening?

I’m not going to get into an argument with you. The way I interpret it’s a threat. They don’t want him posting any further on this matter. Well guess what, EWC should have not been shady by reposting the watch for $10k more and not even checking out the issues the OP pointed out.

Have a good day as I’m done arguing with you

[Humble michael]

Look, watches in sub-par condition are bought and sold all the time, but this one is listed as "like new" and is listed for a pretty penny. EWC has (had?) an impeccable reputation, but this stuff makes me want to be very cautious about them moving forward. Scratches on the movement? A pry mark on the dial? A WELDED LUG??! These are not imperfections like desk diving marks or swirlies or even a case dent, these are damages that have been covered up and misrepresented. This is not "like new" it's "Fair" at best. And the defensiveness and aggression from EWC is also unacceptable. These watches ARE their reputation.

Mr Auto Bay, I couldn’t agree more, james in San Antonio Tx