The problem isn’t with Rolex, it is with their ADs.

[njlam]

While I understand why ADs use the most sought-after Rolex models as incentives for customers to buy non-Rolex watches and high-margin jewelry, I don’t understand why Rolex allows it.

We all know once you own one Rolex, you will want to own more. Why then, are allocations made to maximize non-Rolex profits of the ADs, rather than maximize the number of Rolex owners?

Everyone knows Rolex sells every watch it makes (so why care what anyone thinks), however the current state of the AD experience is so unpleasant, it is damaging their long-term reputation. Perhaps a change is afoot as we are seeing many independent AD lose the privilege of carrying Rolex. There is likely more to go before it is over.

In my opinion, the current AD model is broken at best, corrupt at worst. And while I make room for the idea that some people have AD/SAs that they like personally (hate the game, not the playa…), but my question is this: if certain Rolex models are so hard to get, why are there so many available at grey market dealers?

The large number of BNIB sought-after models (with current year warranty card) that are available at Trusted Sellers/Chrono24/eBay suggests two things:
1. ADs are doing a poor job of identifying flippers (or are sharing the profits with flippers)
2. AD are complicit (profit sharing) with grey dealers

A good example of #2 is: some greys are currently offering new PM models below MSRP. How is this possible if an AD is not complicit? Obviously it is a bad look for an AD to give a discount to a retail customer; but if an AD can lighten their less sought-after inventory to a grey and still make a little that is good business (for them).

Once the move to Rolex-only boutiques and Rolex-owned chains (ie Bucherer) becomes more the norm, hopefully the allocation process becomes less focused on maximizing non-Rolex profits at non-Rolex owned ADs. When “Rolex-First” becomes the priority, perhaps allocations will become more accessible to more watch enthusiasts.

[racerx]

Rolex is like an auto maker, they sell their product(s) to a retailer and then warranty them. Sort of like how a high-line Cadillac Escalade is sold over MSRP, and the dealers can’t get enough of them.

[24hr]

The problem isn’t with Rolex, it is with their ADs

The “problem” with Rolex are the customers.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by 24hr

The problem isn’t with Rolex, it is with their ADs

The “problem” with Rolex are the customers.

Have to agree if all prospective buyers stopped all tis so called AD building relationship stuff, and refused to play these so called AD games then perhaps we could get back to normally.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree if all prospective buyers stopped all this so called AD building relationship stuff, and refused to play these so called AD games then perhaps we could get back to normally.

[BillA]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree if all prospective buyers stopped all tis so called AD building relationship stuff, and refused to play these so called AD games then perhaps we could get back to normally.

Padi, partially disagree, the problem is not at the AD, the problem is the grey market. If people would stop lining the pockets of the grey dealers who sell over MSRP, then we could get normalcy. I for one will not pay over msrp for a watch, that is my decision, people who do have the right to spend their money as they wish.

[dubins930]

Originally Posted by BillA

Padi, partially disagree, the problem is not at the AD, the problem is the grey market. If people would stop lining the pockets of the grey dealers who sell over MSRP, then we could get normalcy. I for one will not pay over msrp for a watch, that is my decision, people who do have the right to spend their money as they wish.

I think you’re spot on here, however I’m sure there are some ADs selling to greys to line their pockets as well. I’ve also been told to my face by an AD that my first watch with them will not be a Rolex… so some of them are a problem as well!

[DLRIDES]

Originally Posted by 24hr

The problem isn’t with Rolex, it is with their ADs

The “problem” with Rolex are the customers.

/\ THIS /\

The AD will do as a customer allows !

Examples of such are posted daily on this forum.

“How much do I spend to be favored by the AD” is a common theme. These individuals could be described with an array of tasteless adjectives that would result in being banned.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by njlam

Everyone knows Rolex sells every watch it makes (so why care what anyone thinks), however the current state of the AD experience is so unpleasant, it is damaging their long-term reputation.

I’ve read so many different versions of this exact same sentiment here over so many years and what is the manifestation of Rolex’s so-called damaged long-term reputation when the consensus here is also that they still sell every watch they make?

[njlam]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

I’ve read so many different versions of this exact same sentiment here over so many years and what is the manifestation of Rolex’s so-called damaged long-term reputation when the consensus here is also that they still sell every watch they make?

I've read so many times how you get all the Rolexes you want and how much your AD loves you. Good for you and I hope that situation lasts.

There are some of us who are less fortunate and have to make due with our sorry lot in our watch lives.

The fact that they sell everything they make is the point. Why do they facilitate independent AD's profit by helping them selling more non-Rolex products at the expense of the brand?

FWIW I bought 10 watches last year with only two being Rolexes, 1 preowned, 1 grey. None of the other eight impacted my spend history with a Rolex AD.

While I would have like to buy more Rolexes, no AD offered the models I wanted, so I bought other brands (Omega/JLC/Zenith/Grand Seiko/Panerai/Baltic/Swatch). I guess in some ways, the unattainability of Rolexes helps the entire watch industry.

At this point, I find it humiliating to go into an AD, knowing they receive dozens of watches a month, yet choose not to sell me one. I wonder if others feel similarly?

Of course people will tell me to go grey, (and I have for three of the four Rolex’s I own), but this rant is just about a process than can/should be better, but isn’t.

Again, I think ultimately Rolex can’t be happy about the manner their watches are distributed. The Bucherer acquisition and the closing of independent ADs are a step in the right direction.

Question for Kevin: If your AD lost their Rolex relationship and you had to start from scratch with someone new, would you feel the same as you do now?

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by njlam

I've read so many times how you get all the Rolexes you want and how much your AD loves you. Good for you and I hope that situation lasts.

There are some of us who are less fortunate and have to make due with our sorry lot in our watch lives.

The fact that they sell everything they make is the point. Why do they facilitate independent AD's profit by helping them selling more non-Rolex products at the expense of the brand?

FWIW I bought 10 watches last year with only two being Rolexes, 1 preowned, 1 grey. None of the other eight impacted my spend history with a Rolex AD.

While I would have like to buy more Rolexes, no AD offered the models I wanted, so I bought other brands (Omega/JLC/Zenith/Grand Seiko/Panerai/Baltic/Swatch). I guess in some ways, the unattainability of Rolexes helps the entire watch industry.

At this point, I find it humiliating to go into an AD, knowing they receive dozens of watches a month, yet choose not to sell me one. I wonder if others feel similarly?

Of course people will tell me to go grey, (and I have for three of the four Rolex’s I own), but this rant is just about a process than can/should be better, but isn’t.

Again, I think ultimately Rolex can’t be happy about the manner their watches are distributed. The Bucherer acquisition and the closing of independent ADs are a step in the right direction.

Question for Kevin: If your AD lost their Rolex relationship, would you feel the same as you do now?

I’m still waiting for you to answer my question, what is the manifestation of Rolex’s so-called years-long damaged long-term reputation? I appreciate your experience and your feelings about it but how has this “damaged reputation” harmed Rolex in all the years that it’s been proclaimed here?

And if my preferred AD lost their Rolex relationship they would still buy and sell interesting pre-owned watches and I would still buy from them because I like the store and the people who work there.

[njlam]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

I’m still waiting for you to answer my question, what is the manifestation of Rolex’s so-called years-long damaged long-term reputation? I appreciate your experience and your feelings about it but how has this “damaged reputation” harmed Rolex in all the years that it’s been proclaimed here?

I've answered your question and I think you choose not to acknowledge it. People have money budgeted for watches, and with Rolex's unattainability, a larger percentage of that budget goes to other watch manufacturers. In addition to this lost market share, the resentment and overall bad feelings engendered are not corporate assets, they are liabilities. Your blind love for the brand may not allow you to see this.

You have also not answered any of the questions I have posed:

1. Why does Rolex facilitate independent ADs using their product to sell non-Rolex products? If Rolex products sell themselves (and they sell everything they make), why do they want/need to do this? The AD seems more like an unnecessary step in the distribution process.

2. If ADs are so honest, how come so many recently sold Rolex watches are available on the grey market? Are flippers so hard to identify?

Regardless of your answers, in my case, the AD experience has made the universe of Rolex watches I want smaller rather than larger. The hassle is just not worth it; this is because I love watches, not just Rolexes. I suspect your watch interests may be more narrow than mine.

While there are a few more Rolexes I would like to own, I am not sitting by the phone. FWIW, I just ordered a Laine, who is an independent watchmaker based in Switzerland (annual production ~200 pieces with only two models offered) who told me my watch should be ready in July…the reason for the wait is because all Torsti Laine’s watches are made to order…It is nice to work directly with the watchmaker with no ADs involved.

Its possible your tolerance for AD BS is just higher than mine...

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by njlam

People have money budgeted for watches, and with Rolex's unattainability, a larger percentage of that budget goes to other watch manufacturers. In addition to this lost market share, the resentment and overall bad feelings engendered are not corporate assets, they are liabilities. Your blind love for the brand may not allow you to see this.
.

If Rolex sells every watch it makes market share and resentment are irrelevant.

The resentment as you put it only exists amongs forums such as this, and people such as yourself.

Can I ger any Rolex I want from an AD? No. Not a chance.

Do I care? No. Not at all. Its just a watch.

99.99% of the worlds population who have any interest in watches or status will still aspire to own a Rolex.

There is no material damage.

If you carry resentment for a brand becasue you cannot buy one of theor products from an authorised retailer the problem is with you, not with the brand.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by njlam

I've answered your question and I think you choose not to acknowledge it. People have money budgeted for watches, and with Rolex's unattainability, a larger percentage of that budget goes to other watch manufacturers. In addition to this lost market share, the resentment and overall bad feelings engendered are not corporate assets, they are liabilities. Your blind love for the brand may not allow you to see this.
.

I have no doubt it appeals to your vanity to suggest that your watch interests are broader than mine. And I don’t have a blind love for the brand, I have a dislike of unsupported generalizations. And the consensus around here for a long time has been that Rolex sells every watch they make so how are they losing market share? Finally, as others have suggested, this resentment is primarily yours and is not universally shared.

Enjoy your vast array of watches.

[Dave O]

Originally Posted by njlam

I've answered your question and I think you choose not to acknowledge it. People have money budgeted for watches, and with Rolex's unattainability, a larger percentage of that budget goes to other watch manufacturers. In addition to this lost market share, the resentment and overall bad feelings engendered are not corporate assets, they are liabilities. Your blind love for the brand may not allow you to see this.

You have also not answered any of the questions I have posed:

1. Why does Rolex facilitate independent ADs using their product to sell non-Rolex products? If Rolex products sell themselves (and they sell everything they make), why do they want/need to do this? The AD seems more like an unnecessary step in the distribution process.

2. If ADs are so honest, how come so many recently sold Rolex watches are available on the grey market? Are flippers so hard to identify?

Regardless of your answers, in my case, the AD experience has made the universe of Rolex watches I want smaller rather than larger. The hassle is just not worth it; this is because I love watches, not just Rolexes. I suspect your watch interests may be more narrow than mine.

While there are a few more Rolexes I would like to own, I am not sitting by the phone. FWIW, I just ordered a Laine, who is an independent watchmaker based in Switzerland (annual production ~200 pieces with only two models offered) who told me my watch should be ready in July…the reason for the wait is because all Torsti Laine’s watches are made to order…It is nice to work directly with the watchmaker with no ADs involved.

Its possible your tolerance for AD BS is just higher than mine...

I detest flippers as much as you do. But in reality, even though you think it's a large number, in the overall scheme of things the percentage of watches that goes to flippers vs. the average customer is a tiny number. Rolex sells over 1.2m watches a year. If even 10k watches were flipped, this is less than 1% of total amount of watches produced. Are there some bad apples - yes. But in the end the number is very small.

[ratty]

Originally Posted by njlam

FWIW I bought 10 watches last year with only two being Rolexes, 1 preowned, 1 grey.

…

What’s the difference?

[joli160]

The moment each model becomes instantly available at an AD nobody will buy them anymore and the brand value goes down the drain.

Low supply and encouraging the ‘grey’ market keeps Rolex being sought after and that is what Rolex is doing. Good business

[neverenoughtime]

Originally Posted by joli160

The moment each model becomes instantly available at an AD nobody will buy them anymore and the brand value goes down the drain.

Low supply and encouraging the ‘grey’ market keeps Rolex being sought after and that is what Rolex is doing. Good business

Nobody wants to admit it, but this is 100% accurate.

We all want what we can’t have.

[JonnyOld Boy]

The Problem is the "Emperor's New Cloths Syndrome" ....

Customers have, in recent years, been hankering after something that is more than the sum of its parts in their minds.

The watches, after all, are just nice, mass produced common items.
There is nothing "exclusive" about owning a Rolex , yet people seem to think otherwise.

I once pointed out the frankly lazy finishing on the underside lugs of a 2019 Submariner Date to an owner and the response was predictable : " Ah , yes , but at the end of the day, I own a Rolex ".

Rolex are nice watches. Some of them are very nice. But they are not any more exceptional in reality than the other mass produced watches in their price bracket.

A lot of "shallow buyers" [ as a watch commentator recently put it ] are pulling back from Rolex buying simply because "everyone seems to have one now".

Malaga Airport is evidence of this every spring when you see your corporate and chaps golfing holiday arrivals shuffling through immigration all with their Roleys earned by their last sales commission .....

I have never seen so many Rolex watches in my life to be honest.

But I think the tide is turning and the Brand will slowing return to the true watch enthusiasts , those that appreciate them for what they are.

I am an optimist and still a great fan of this brand.

[bluestreak]

Originally Posted by njlam

At this point, I find it humiliating to go into an AD, knowing they receive dozens of watches a month, yet choose not to sell me one. I wonder if others feel similarly?

If you find it “humiliating” that someone won’t sell you a luxury watch, that’s on you, not the AD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harry-57]

There is nothing wrong with my Rolex AD so far as my experience with them goes. Someone else may regard my AD differently. One cannot generalise or project because there is a lot of variability between ADs and each of their customers.

Businesses can and will do business with other businesses. It's allowed. It's how the secondary market gets a proportion of its inventory across all the brands it trades. For a few models from a very few brands, if customers are willing to pay a premium this model will work for all concerned in the chain. If you think it's unfair, I would be more inclined to blame those who are willing to pump money in by buying pre owned hot models over MSRP from non ADs. The pre owned market has existed for longer than I have. It's usually tilted in favour of discounts. Rolex is a bit different at present. It's a glitch. It may never resolve (unlikely) but it isn't a reason to take a wrecking ball to it.

In the UK the AD owns their stock. They can do what they like with their stock within limits laid down by Rolex, who police their ADs using a number of direct and indirect methods - so my AD tells me. From what you say it sounds like it's more of an unregulated free for all in the US. It ain't broke here, at least for me, so I wouldn't want to fix it.

[Wilco68]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

There is nothing wrong with my Rolex AD so far as my experience with them goes.
It ain't broke here, at least for me, so I wouldn't want to fix it.

This ^^^ for me too.

Picked up the watches I want in a short space of time with no pre-spend, & always nice to pop in to see my AD just for a watch chat.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by Wilco68

always nice to pop in to see my AD just for a watch chat.

It's nice to have a watch dealer which is staffed by WISs, or a HiFi dealer who loves music, or a car dealer stuffed with petrolheads. Could be some of us are just lucky with our choices. It could also be a geographic thing. I suspect it also depends on the people on both sides of the counter.

[soxfan39]

Seems pretty straightforward to me what's going on. AD's bundling slow moving pieces along with hot sellers to Grey's. Grey's get the hot pieces that sell for over MSRP and then sell the slow moving stuff under retail. AD gets to move lots more inventory thereby maximizing profit.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by soxfan39

AD gets to move lots more inventory thereby maximizing profit.

... and in some cases uses this to help keep its franchise. Maybe not so much on Rolex, but businesses don't stay afloat by doing nothing.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by soxfan39

Seems pretty straightforward to me what's going on. AD's bundling slow moving pieces along with hot sellers to Grey's. Grey's get the hot pieces that sell for over MSRP and then sell the slow moving stuff under retail. AD gets to move lots more inventory thereby maximizing profit.

ADs selling to the used market is really just an internet myth. ADs can sell everything to their own customers why sell to other vendors. Retail customers sell to the used market.

[Andad]

Most are aware of the issues.

What is the answer?

[askdanny]

Rolex doesn't have a production problem.

It has a distribution problem.

--Danny

[agriculture&watches]

Originally Posted by askdanny

Rolex doesn't have a production problem.

It has a distribution problem.

--Danny

Agree with your statement

[Kingcobb]

The ADs are able to use rarer watches to get people to buy less desirable watches because they cut production to artificially create a shortage and increase demand. So the ADs are doing exactly what Rolex wants them to dom