Am I getting jacked by a car dealer?

[TheVTCGuy]

OK, so…. I own a Hybrid (love it) but have been itching to buy an EV for a couple years now. Let’s NOT make this about EVs OK? If you have strong feelings for or against them just forget I put that in there, but it’s relevant to the story.

Several weeks ago Lexus announced their 2026 ES series line up and one, (an EV) was EXACTLY the car I was looking for; perfect. I won’t go in to the reasons but if you have ever seen a new car and said: “That’s the one” you know what I mean. I spoke to the local dealer, explained this was the vehicle I was looking for and even though they are not released yet, I was ready whenever they became available. He was (of course) 100% supportive, saying he heard the ES300E and 500E were excellent vehicles and he would be glad to help me blah blah; so far everything as expected. Siting a couple different sources on the internet, the 2026 models should be available either November/December this year, or January/February 2026. He would be able to take my deposit and order within a month or two; everything is great.

Today I get a text from him, he SAYS the 2026 models won’t be available for AT LEAST ONE YEAR, June of 2026. And.. Oh by the way, he can get me a great deal on a new 300H, (Hybrid).

The way I see it, there are a couple possibilities. One, the delay really WILL be that long (is it possible?) Or two: He is trying to sell me on something NOW instead of later. I.e. A bird in the hand…. Funny, how enthusiastic he was about selling me an EV model and now, he is denouncing said model and expressing I REALLY want a(nother) hybrid.

Anyone that knows anything about car dealerships (which is a lot more then I do) is it POSSIBLE the 2026 model of any new car will not be released until the middle of the year? Or is this some kind of ploy to get rid of their 2025 stock? Or (I can’t help but chuckle when I compare how positive he talked about the EV model a few days ago, citing all the accolades, but now demeaning electric vehicles and telling me quote: You REALLY want another hybrid.” )

Look forward to your opinions

[Andad]

You are a clever guy Paul.

Research other dealers or go direct to Lexus?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Andad

You are a clever guy Paul.

Research other dealers or go direct to Lexus?

Completely agree Eddie, reached out today to a recommended dealer in LA, will see what they say.

(About the clever part though.. )

[DJ TT 2002]

What a scam !!

You got the “these are not the droids you’re looking for..” treatment.

Move on to another dealer asap.

[JasoninDenver]

Dealt with Lexus on this for a LX600. Went on what was promised to be a waiting list but was told it would be at least one year. The year went by and I started checking with the dealer evey 3-4 months to be told “We just arent getting any in from Japan like we have been promised”.

In the meantime, two sales people come and go over the next year and I finally ask to speak to the sales manager who informs me that I am still on the list but it says I am not interested anymore. Two years later.

Realizing the weakness of that position while I am sitting in front of him asking when mine might be coming in, he promptly offers the next one with the trim level my wife wanted. At that point we simply pivoted to the new GX and got the second one delivered in four weeks.

Basically, the Lexus experience is just like buying a Rolex from your AD these days, at least for the hugh demand models.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

Dealt with Lexus on this for a LX600. Went on what was promised to be a waiting list but was told it would be at least one year. The year went by and I started checking with the dealer evey 3-4 months to be told “We just arent getting any in from Japan like we have been promised”.

In the meantime, two sales people come and go over the next year and I finally ask to speak to the sales manager who informs me that I am still on the list but it says I am not interested anymore. Two years later.

Realizing the weakness of that position while I am sitting in front of him asking when mine might be coming in, he promptly offers the next one with the trim level my wife wanted. At that point we simply pivoted to the new GX and got the second one delivered in four weeks.

Basically, the Lexus experience is just like buying a Rolex from your AD these days, at least for the hugh demand models.

Very good (albeit depressing) info, thanks Jason.

[shaunylw]

Very likely that dealer won’t be receiving any until next year. Go through a few other dealers and see what they say.


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[joli160]

I didn’t know the model and looked it up. Gorgeous looking car, worth the wait

[geoach]

never trust a car salesman......

[Andad]

Originally Posted by geoach

never trust a car salesman......

[THC]

Hopefully Carguy will be along soon.. he is the TRF Guru

[Carguy87]

Originally Posted by geoach

never trust a car salesman......

I say I say I resemble that remark

Originally Posted by THC

Hopefully Carguy will be along soon.. he is the TRF Guru

Sorry I’m late to the party (was at the store for 15 hours yesterday; didn’t get much TRF’ing in once I finally got home.

Paul, I think your situation is a mix of several factors, but I’ll do my best to address each of your questions.

First: Yes it is entirely possible to have a vehicle released that late into the model year. In fact, I just got my new Wagoneer S Jeep EV in March of this year…it’s a 2024 model and I leased it the day after we got it in at the store. A series of blunders in quality control, component delays, etc and next thing you know it’s over a year behind. Had it been on time it was projected originally for
June-late July of 2024.

Another example, I ordered a Ford Raptor before in fall 2018 as a 2019 model year and the factory rep for the Ford store that ordered it for me told the General Manager “he should have one hell of a Christmas” (he’s a friend and showed me the text). My truck was the second 2019 Raptor they had ordered, but then they didn’t get the allocation from ford for it as fast as they expected. Fast forward to June of 2019, and when my truck finally arrived it was damaged in transit so I ended up flying down to Vegas and getting one there as by this time they were already sitting on lots for sale.

Regarding your salesperson offering to make you a great deal on what’s in stock, I take that more as them trying to retain you as a customer in the face of the bad news that your order will likely take far longer than originally estimated. I don’t see that as a bait and switch so much as wanting to offer some potentially positive solutions while breaking the news that the delays are going to be much more than they thought. Had they called and just said “well Paul looks like it’s gonna be a year, that’s cool right?” You probably would have asked for your deposit back. This way at least they’ve offered an alternative, and hey if you take them up on it then they get to sell a car right now instead of later.

I will try to dodge the politics attached to this situation, but regardless of anyone’s feelings on who’s right or wrong the reality is that the American EV car market is changing rapidly, and based on sales performance data it seems the public is cooling off in their desire to buy EV’s and hybrids. Stellantis is already reopening the once shuttered plant that makes the Hemi V8’s, and is quietly shelving or scrapping many upcoming EV and hybrid projects for the American market. With these changes happening it’s also possible if not probable that Lexus (and other brands) want to wait a bit and see how this all shakes out before spending billions to launch new products the market may not want to consume.

One final layer to this onion could be whispering that they are going to simply cancel the vehicle all together, which if the sales manager at this dealership thinks is going to happen he’ll push his sales crew to try and switch everyone back to cars they can sell instead of holding deposits and taking orders for cars that may never be built, or be so far off that the majority will cancel out of frustration and never turn into actual purchases.

Just my thoughts, but as said above, never trust a car salesman

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Carguy87

I say I say I resemble that remark



Sorry I’m late to the party (was at the store for 15 hours yesterday; didn’t get much TRF’ing in once I finally got home.

Paul, I think your situation is a mix of several factors, but I’ll do my best to address each of your questions.

First: Yes it is entirely possible to have a vehicle released that late into the model year. In fact, I just got my new Wagoneer S Jeep EV in March of this year…it’s a 2024 model and I leased it the day after we got it in at the store. A series of blunders in quality control, component delays, etc and next thing you know it’s over a year behind. Had it been on time it was projected originally for
June-late July of 2024.

Another example, I ordered a Ford Raptor before in fall 2018 as a 2019 model year and the factory rep for the Ford store that ordered it for me told the General Manager “he should have one hell of a Christmas” (he’s a friend and showed me the text). My truck was the second 2019 Raptor they had ordered, but then they didn’t get the allocation from ford for it as fast as they expected. Fast forward to June of 2019, and when my truck finally arrived it was damaged in transit so I ended up flying down to Vegas and getting one there as by this time they were already sitting on lots for sale.

Regarding your salesperson offering to make you a great deal on what’s in stock, I take that more as them trying to retain you as a customer in the face of the bad news that your order will likely take far longer than originally estimated. I don’t see that as a bait and switch so much as wanting to offer some potentially positive solutions while breaking the news that the delays are going to be much more than they thought. Had they called and just said “well Paul looks like it’s gonna be a year, that’s cool right?” You probably would have asked for your deposit back. This way at least they’ve offered an alternative, and hey if you take them up on it then they get to sell a car right now instead of later.

I will try to dodge the politics attached to this situation, but regardless of anyone’s feelings on who’s right or wrong the reality is that the American EV car market is changing rapidly, and based on sales performance data it seems the public is cooling off in their desire to buy EV’s and hybrids. Stellantis is already reopening the once shuttered plant that makes the Hemi V8’s, and is quietly shelving or scrapping many upcoming EV and hybrid projects for the American market. With these changes happening it’s also possible if not probable that Lexus (and other brands) want to wait a bit and see how this all shakes out before spending billions to launch new products the market may not want to consume.

One final layer to this onion could be whispering that they are going to simply cancel the vehicle all together, which if the sales manager at this dealership thinks is going to happen he’ll push his sales crew to try and switch everyone back to cars they can sell instead of holding deposits and taking orders for cars that may never be built, or be so far off that the majority will cancel out of frustration and never turn into actual purchases.

Just my thoughts, but as said above, never trust a car salesman

Thank you sir! (Damm car salesmen ). I believe everything you say. The model was announced last month in Asia, if they are considering not releasing it, I guess it’s possible but I will buy a different EV. If Lexus wants me as a customer then they could offer me a great deal on the RZ (another Lexus electric). To laud the accolades of an EV and then talk out of the other side of your mouth and TELL me what I REALLY want is another hybrid is…. Well, that is what really set me off. I also suppose the long weight is another possibility. I received my 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium on December 31st, 2014, and it had been available for a couple months, so I kind of expected a similar availability situation, but understand being an entirely new model there could be delay.

I was at the Tesla Dealer yesterday and they offered me an unbelievable deal on a two year lease. Total down payment out the door was $7,600 (ish) and $123 a month, for 24 months. It was the base model 3 without all the comfort, bells and whistles of a Lexus of course, but it is hard not to consider. This will be my first all-EV and I wanted to see how I got along with it. If, it’s great, in two years I can consider the nicer Lexus, or a (nicer) Tesla, or something else. Not really sure….

Well don’t just stand there someone talk me out of it!!!!!!!!!

[Krash]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Thank you sir! (Damm car salesmen ). I believe everything you say. The model was announced last month in Asia, if they are considering not releasing it, I guess it’s possible but I will buy a different EV. If Lexus wants me as a customer then they could offer me a great deal on the RZ (another Lexus electric). To laud the accolades of an EV and then talk out of the other side of your mouth and TELL me what I REALLY want is another hybrid is…. Well, that is what really set me off. I also suppose the long weight is another possibility. I received my 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium on December 31st, 2014, and it had been available for a couple months, so I kind of expected a similar availability situation, but understand being an entirely new model there could be delay.

I was at the Tesla Dealer yesterday and they offered me an unbelievable deal on a two year lease. Total down payment out the door was $7,600 (ish) and $123 a month, for 24 months. It was the base model 3 without all the comfort, bells and whistles of a Lexus of course, but it is hard not to consider. This will be my first all-EV and I wanted to see how I got along with it. If, it’s great, in two years I can consider the nicer Lexus, or a (nicer) Tesla, or something else. Not really sure….

Well don’t just stand there someone talk me out of it!!!!!!!!!

Get the Tesla 3. I’m thinking about getting the all-wheel long-range version.

346 mile range. 0 to 60 in 4.2 seconds.

And it has the upgraded sound system (which really matters to me, but most folks probably wouldn’t care).

I didn’t like these a couple years ago, but I was blown away by the technology when I recently drove in one. My neighbor just got one.

I love it.





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[Carguy87]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Thank you sir! (Damm car salesmen ). I believe everything you say. The model was announced last month in Asia, if they are considering not releasing it, I guess it’s possible but I will buy a different EV. If Lexus wants me as a customer then they could offer me a great deal on the RZ (another Lexus electric). To laud the accolades of an EV and then talk out of the other side of your mouth and TELL me what I REALLY want is another hybrid is…. Well, that is what really set me off. I also suppose the long weight is another possibility. I received my 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium on December 31st, 2014, and it had been available for a couple months, so I kind of expected a similar availability situation, but understand being an entirely new model there could be delay.

I was at the Tesla Dealer yesterday and they offered me an unbelievable deal on a two year lease. Total down payment out the door was $7,600 (ish) and $123 a month, for 24 months. It was the base model 3 without all the comfort, bells and whistles of a Lexus of course, but it is hard not to consider. This will be my first all-EV and I wanted to see how I got along with it. If, it’s great, in two years I can consider the nicer Lexus, or a (nicer) Tesla, or something else. Not really sure….

Well don’t just stand there someone talk me out of it!!!!!!!!!

My only comment on this is just if you’re going to lease (which I highly recommend for an EV) I wouldn’t put that much cash down. Every $1,000 you put down up front in a 24 month lease buys down your payment about $50/month, so I would only put down as much as you have to in order to achieve a comfortable payment (some leases have a minimum down payment required to cover the first payment and other drive off fees).

The reason to not put more down is most leases include GAP insurance automatically from the lessor, so if the vehicle got totaled the lease gets paid off and you can just go get another one.

So, let’s say you put the $7,600 down and get crunched at the first stop light driving home by a guy who also just leased a Tesla with $0 down and a higher monthly payment. Insurance will probably value the vehicles less than the lease payoffs in both cases. No one got hurt (it’s a best case example lol) so you see each other back at the dealership a few days later. He gets another new car on the same terms he had, but you’re out the $7,600 you put down and have to either put that down again or take on a higher payment the second go round.

[Watchflair]

Originally Posted by Carguy87

My only comment on this is just if you’re going to lease (which I highly recommend for an EV) I wouldn’t put that much cash down. Every $1,000 you put down up front in a 24 month lease buys down your payment about $50/month, so I would only put down as much as you have to in order to achieve a comfortable payment (some leases have a minimum down payment required to cover the first payment and other drive off fees).

The reason to not put more down is most leases include GAP insurance automatically from the lessor, so if the vehicle got totaled the lease gets paid off and you can just go get another one.

So, let’s say you put the $7,600 down and get crunched at the first stop light driving home by a guy who also just leased a Tesla with $0 down and a higher monthly payment. Insurance will probably value the vehicles less than the lease payoffs in both cases. No one got hurt (it’s a best case example lol) so you see each other back at the dealership a few days later. He gets another new car on the same terms he had, but you’re out the $7,600 you put down and have to either put that down again or take on a higher payment the second go round.

100% on this


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[East Bay Rider]

Originally Posted by Carguy87

My only comment on this is just if you’re going to lease (which I highly recommend for an EV) I wouldn’t put that much cash down. Every $1,000 you put down up front in a 24 month lease buys down your payment about $50/month, so I would only put down as much as you have to in order to achieve a comfortable payment (some leases have a minimum down payment required to cover the first payment and other drive off fees).

The reason to not put more down is most leases include GAP insurance automatically from the lessor, so if the vehicle got totaled the lease gets paid off and you can just go get another one.

So, let’s say you put the $7,600 down and get crunched at the first stop light driving home by a guy who also just leased a Tesla with $0 down and a higher monthly payment. Insurance will probably value the vehicles less than the lease payoffs in both cases. No one got hurt (it’s a best case example lol) so you see each other back at the dealership a few days later. He gets another new car on the same terms he had, but you’re out the $7,600 you put down and have to either put that down again or take on a higher payment the second go round.

I learn so much here.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Thank you sir! (Damm car salesmen ). I believe everything you say. The model was announced last month in Asia, if they are considering not releasing it, I guess it’s possible but I will buy a different EV. If Lexus wants me as a customer then they could offer me a great deal on the RZ (another Lexus electric). To laud the accolades of an EV and then talk out of the other side of your mouth and TELL me what I REALLY want is another hybrid is…. Well, that is what really set me off. I also suppose the long weight is another possibility. I received my 2015 Ford Fusion Hybrid Titanium on December 31st, 2014, and it had been available for a couple months, so I kind of expected a similar availability situation, but understand being an entirely new model there could be delay.

I was at the Tesla Dealer yesterday and they offered me an unbelievable deal on a two year lease. Total down payment out the door was $7,600 (ish) and $123 a month, for 24 months. It was the base model 3 without all the comfort, bells and whistles of a Lexus of course, but it is hard not to consider. This will be my first all-EV and I wanted to see how I got along with it. If, it’s great, in two years I can consider the nicer Lexus, or a (nicer) Tesla, or something else. Not really sure….

Well don’t just stand there someone talk me out of it!!!!!!!!!

Don't lease an RZ. It is the Lexus version of the BZ4X, which is an unadulterated POS (my wife has one). If you go with the RZ you will be turned off EV's forever.

Something else to consider is that Toyota is pretty far behind on EV technology. While Toyota is the leader in hybrid technology, they are very late to the EV party. For Lexus money, you should be getting the latest and best EV. Even if you wait for the new model you won't be getting the best EV available.

Go with the Tesla Model S. You get 410 miles of range and a 3 second 0-60.

[Easy E]

SWAT

Sell what’s available today. Seems like.

[1William]

So much information and misinformation on the internet. I have always been a huge Toyota/Lexus fan and currently own two Toyota's and two Lexus vehicles. I have always subscribed to the advice of not buying vehicles in the first year of release/production. So many possible issues that get worked out in the subsequent years. Look at the 2022 Tundra as an example. It is my standing that Toyota/Lexus is also looking at its vehicle line-up in the Electric space. I don't know what that means but the posters on Toyota specific websites discuss it at length and speculate. I would just sit back and give it sometime and see what happens with the rollout.

[N0trub]

I always thought buying a car/truck was the worst shopping experience possible . Then i went into my local Rollie AD my opinion was changed.

I own three toyotas a lexus and a ford f350. My wife loves her lexus and its 17 yrs old!


America where big corporations are people too

[Maleg]

I've been told the Lexus EV is due late this year, at the earliest. When your dealer gets you one is related to the market demand in your area. June 2026 might be the conservative promise for southern California.

Toyota may be backing out of EV enthusiasm due to the sagging market and loss of national mandates. If that's true they won't be in a hurry to drop EV's on the market.

My wife has a BZ4X which is probably the most horribly unreliable Toyota ever. While you are waiting for your Lexus keep an eye on the performance and reliability reviews for the model. My wife was every bit as excited about the Toyota EV as you are about a Lexus EV, but having owned one for a year we are ready to flog the Toyota executives that put this one on the market.

[brandrea]

I guess I’ll be the trusting guy here … but it’s possible what he’s saying is true.

I know when I initially got on the wait list for my vehicle, I was told it would be a 1.5 year wait … that was during covid. Still, it ended up taking closer to 2 years.

It’s possible with a new model, there will be delays, especially if there are supply chain issues etc.

[AzPaul]

This reminds me of the time I wanted a new car for a cross-country family road trip. I had ordered a new Antartic Blue, Super Sportswagon with C.B. and optional Rally fun-pack, but when I got to the dealership, the salesman told me it hadn't come in and tried to talk me into the WagonQueen Family Truckster.

[Krash]

It isn’t uncommon for new models to be delayed in terms of availability. Most notable, both the new Ford Mustang and C8 Corvette were delayed. It doesn’t matter if it’s an EV or ICE vehicle. There will always be production delays.


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[btoolguy45]

Metallic pea? Think you hate it now, want until you drive it. LMAO


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[superdog]

Delays are normal.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by superdog

Delays are normal.

Even more normal when they haven't even been released Seth.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Andad

Even more normal when they haven't even been released Seth.

ha. exactly!!

[enjoythemusic]

Bluntly said... Car sales are in the shitter. It's a buyer's market. Auctioned cars getting meh to little bids. Find someone with an auction license, get an in-warranty low mileage repo.

PS: Salespeople lie.