Bad Deal with Baier GmbH on Chrono24

[Turnip88]

Hi all,

I would like to share my bad experience with my purchase of a Rolex Explorer I 1016 (1988-89), serial L21XXXX. I will never know the serial as I never received the watch.

I am a buyer based in Singapore, and the seller is Gabriel Baier based in Essen, Germany. He operates under the entity of Baier GmbH on Chrono24.

The initial correspondence was pleasant and he actively sent me pictures and videos of the watch. I have done previous dealings online prior and am quite comfortable with it. The most recent online deal was an Aquanaut 5066A-001 (2005).

Based on Gabriel's good reviews on Chrono24, and my great past experience with online dealers, I decided to transact off Chrono24 due to its high fees and exchange rate. Therefore, I purchased the watch with insurance, with the full value declared and even paid tax on it. The deal was made in March 2022.

About a week after the transfer, I received the UPS parcel at my office. Upon opening the parcel, there was no watch to be found. The internal packing was sort of intact, but was very untidy. The watch bubble wrap was found empty. I immediately contacted Gabriel, and he said would get in touch with UPS Germany. I then took some pictures and made a police report and also informing UPS Singapore. UPS Singapore then dispatched a Damage Inspection Team to investigate and concluded that the parcel was likely to be tampered with. This means that the watch could have been originally packed, but a case of theft was possible.

As the insurance was under Gabriel, only he could claim the insurance and liaise with the relevant parties in Germany. After weeks of supposed correspondence with UPS Germany, Gabriel informed me that the insurance was under a third party, and not under UPS. Hence, the whole investigation process would have to be restarted. At this instance, I requested that he included myself in the email correspondence with the insurance party, as I am the ultimate victim in this case. However, he refused to share any information citing strict privacy laws in Germany (if anyone is from Germany, would appreciate if you could comment on this). Over the entire process, there was some radio silence due to Covid infections and business/leisure travel, which I full understand and respect.

Fast forward to 22 Aug 2022, he ended all communications with a WhatsApp text:

"Hey. Unfortunately not good news. The insurance checked all the way. And they checked the singapur tax authorities too . The watch was all the way inside the package even in the last station in singapur authorities . You took the package and give signature that everything was ok and after that you said it was not inside. First you dont even want an insurance. in this case the insurance dont recognize an thief in all the way till your place."

This was utterly unbelievable to me as it felt like he was calling me a fraud. He even barked on the fact that I did not want insurance in the beginning. Honestly, my pass dealings had no insurance on them and I had no issues. On this occasion, I decided to get insurance but it amounted to nothing.

Anyway, Gabriel refuses to respond to my texts or calls after the above message. I have reached out to Chrono24 to assist as it seems like he still active on the platform.

In a nutshell, I hope that watch buyers take this as lesson and take extra care and diligence while purchasing online.

On a side note, if anyone here lives in Essen region and is willing to assist me, please dm me. I would also like to hear from anyone who has dealt with Gabriel from Baier GmbH if any.

I am still finding ways to contact Gabriel and hopefully there is some form of resolution.

[sski]

thanks for sharing. important to illustrate the potential pitfalls of doing an international transaction. also illustrates that ratings and reviews are essentially meaningless.

the right course of action here would been to issue you a refund while the seller should have pursued the insurance claim. i hope you're made whole.......engage C24 to negotiate and remediate since this happened via their platform. when things go wrong that's when the value of using a particular platform should be realized. i would ask them to put the payment to seller on hold or reverse it and hold into escrow while C24 themselves do their due diligence.

[Bizcut1]

Hold on - if I am reading this right you decided to transact OFF Chrono 24 because of their high fees?

Why, then, would you even involve them and why should they help you?

You took your chances without Chrono 24's escrow protection to avoid paying their fees, correct?

I think you know what recourse you have with them on this transaction then.

Good luck but I think the lesson learned here should be your own.

[TBT]

Hell of a way to kick off your first post on a watch forum.

What you've decided to do here on your transaction goes against everything anyone has posted on the do's and dont's of watch transactions. Also, you've cheated a business that offers the exact service you wish you had right now. All to save some money.

Lesson learned, Sir.

[Turnip88]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Hold on - if I am reading this right you decided to transact OFF Chrono 24 because of their high fees?

Why, then, would you even involve them and why should they help you?

You took your chances without Chrono 24's escrow protection to avoid paying their fees, correct?

I think you know what recourse you have with them on this transaction then.

Good luck but I think the lesson learned here should be your own.

Hi Bizcut,

I fully acknowledge that the fault of trusting the seller, and purchasing off Chrono24, is fully on my part.
I am not at all discrediting Chrono24 in this case.
I am just reaching out to them as Baier GmbH is a registered seller on their platform and he is not responding to my messages, fully understanding that they may not assist me at all.

This post is mainly to raise awareness on dealing with Baier GmbH.
Gabriel has good reviews and a good reputation on Chrono24.
However, him "ghosting" me and not providing a recourse, as a reputable seller, is very irresponsible and unreliable.

[Skinnyskins]

This is sad.

I have done about 3 online/overseas transactions with dealers without going through chrono24 and luckily all went through without any hiccups..

but moving on, i think i might want to use chrono24 just in case i end up with a situation like yours.

[omiles]

Apologies to read sad story .

We shipped a lot of watch to overseas and all of them with 3rd party insurance .

The case u did in right way , u reported to UPS and reported to police at the same time , this is something required to claim insurance . Once UPS confirmed lost/stolen then seller can claim insurance by using both police report and UPS lost/stolen confirmation .

Insurance company will request some of information from seller to confirmed parcel packing follow insurance requirement , eg double box, secure package , etc etc .

Properly , insurance company will take 1-1.5 months to completed fully investigation and share result with seller.

I think u can request insurance report from seller and u should know what's reason claim denied . There are some reason cause insurance claim fail or maybe your parcel without 3rd party insurance .

Highly recommended all cross-border /overseas buxury watch parcel must include full insurance as there are a lot of stolen and lost case

[Nathan_]

I have read similar stories from my other hobby - where a seller chargers the buyer insurance, but takes the risk and doesn't actually purchase it.

[Turnip88]

Just wanted to give an update on the case.

I engaged a German lawyer to assist, and met with a lot of kickback from Gabriel Baier. He discharged all liabilities, pushing the blame to me by saying that I acknowledged and signed the delivery before checking the contents. He also did not share his correspondence with the insurer owing to privacy laws in Germany (?).

Then last week, I found out that he is no longer dealing on Chrono24. His seller account is now deleted, and I have emailed Chrono24 to verify. Chrono24 has not replied. This just raises more suspicion and there is a possibility this whole thing is a scam.

On the flipside, if Gabriel Baier is innocent and did in fact ship the watch, then the serial number of the Explorer 1016 is L216431. If you ever do come across this serial number, then you know it's a stolen watch.

Beware folks.

[omar10213245]

Originally Posted by Nathan_

I have read similar stories from my other hobby - where a seller chargers the buyer insurance, but takes the risk and doesn't actually purchase it.

that's really messed up. in such a situation, the buyer should be able to compel the seller to provide proof of insurance on the purchase.

[omar10213245]

Originally Posted by Turnip88

Just wanted to give an update on the case.

I engaged a German lawyer to assist, and met with a lot of kickback from Gabriel Baier. He discharged all liabilities, pushing the blame to me by saying that I acknowledged and signed the delivery before checking the contents. He also did not share his correspondence with the insurer owing to privacy laws in Germany (?).

Then last week, I found out that he is no longer dealing on Chrono24. His seller account is now deleted, and I have emailed Chrono24 to verify. Chrono24 has not replied. This just raises more suspicion and there is a possibility this whole thing is a scam.

On the flipside, if Gabriel Baier is innocent and did in fact ship the watch, then the serial number of the Explorer 1016 is L216431. If you ever do come across this serial number, then you know it's a stolen watch.

Beware folks.

Very sorry to hear that you've had to deal with this, I hope that you're somehow made whole, either by reimbursement of funds or by actually getting the watch you wanted.