32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Data from my BLNR - it is actually running fast, which I did not expect.

Something went wrong with your measurement in 9U @24 hours.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Data from my DD40. This one makes me mad - real mad.

Something went wrong with your measurement in 6U @24 hours. Very low vertical amplitudes after full winding. 200 degrees is the Rolex acceptance limit after 24 hours.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Scared of tables? I understand. I’ll get them converted to graphs. May take a day or so, I’m going to be a bit busy at work the next day or so. More to follow.

No need, graphs are done :-)

The additional data points after 12 and 36 hours are useful. None of your watches reach 60 hours?

I suggest to do a simple test with all your watches:

(1) Full winding, note the exact time
(2) Place in DU for rest (not moving)
(3) Wait until movement stops running
(4) Calculate the power reserve

Do all watches reach the power reserve of approx. 70 hours?

Good job and set of data!

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

Yes sir, lots of bits and pieces in there though that are almost incomprehensible.

Possibly the first place ypu want to look at is post no: 1258 ...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1258

That will help you understand a lot of what is being explained, researched and discussed.

[WatchMySix]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Possibly the first place ypu want to look at is post no: 1258 ...

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1258

That will help you understand a lot of what is being explained, researched and discussed.

Thanks for sharing.

This is terrifying. I own a 126610LV and a 126231, obviously both with 32XX movements. I've seen with my naked eye a 'loss of time' after days of wear, but never officially tested. I'm going to test and report back. Though, I don't want to (see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, about my Rolex's please).

Has Rolex / anyone from Rolex commented on this catastrophe?


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[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

Has Rolex / anyone from Rolex commented on this catastrophe?

Rolex have NOT commented and are VERY unlikely to comment.

They just don't do things like that.

If and when the do get to grips with the problem, and it seems like they have not so far, they will probably do what we have named a "Silent Repair"

Thats a repair done during a service or something so they dont need to do a recall or get flooded with repairs all of a sudden.

There are probably several million watches with the problem out there. Of course only a very small/tiny percentage will ever read and know about the problem.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

I'm going to test and report back. Though, I don't want to (see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, about my Rolex's please).

Welcome to the club. I promise you, you are not alone in this sentiment. I did not really want to know that my super expensive time pieces might actually be not that great. Ignoring the problem doesn't make the problem not real. Better to know than ignore. Good luck.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Just one meter. The watches sit until the next reading cycle. I have a few to wear in the mean time. I’ll post a pic to demonstrate my setup, it’s pretty straightforward. So, there is a good 20-30 minutes difference in any given point of measurement period between the two watches. I read all five positions with each watch with a couple of minutes rest between each reading. I don’t really believe I am moving the timepiece enough to throw off the amp measurement and I believe the 20-30 minutes latency in 0, 12, 24, 48 between the two watches is pretty close to irrelevant.

This is currently what I have going on. The BLNR and DD40 are just sitting by the meter. I read one, all 5 positions, read the next. Again, I feel like what little movement I impart and the variance of just a few minutes (over hours) isn't a huge deal.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by saxo3

No need, graphs are done :-)

The additional data points after 12 and 36 hours are useful. None of your watches reach 60 hours?

I suggest to do a simple test with all your watches:

(1) Full winding, note the exact time
(2) Place in DU for rest (not moving)
(3) Wait until movement stops running
(4) Calculate the power reserve

Do all watches reach the power reserve of approx. 70 hours?

Good job and set of data!

60 HR data in. DD40 is vomitous, BLNR is really good.

DD40
DU -17.6, 156
DD -12.6, 154
3U -31.7, 122
6U -45.6, 180
9U -23.1, 125

BLNR
DU 5.3, 198
DD 2.7, 200
3U-10.3, 156
6U -4.5, 155
9U 1.8, 162
(relax Charles, will get added to the graph shortly)

At 60 Hrs the BLNR is running avg -.1 with an avg Amp of 174.2. This is way better than any of my other watches. The DD40 is avg -26.12, 147.4 Dramatically different and terrible. What is in fact up with that?

[CharlesN]

I have been measuring another couple of my watches.

They are from a different brand to Rolex (Or Tudor).

These readings below show how a watch should be.

On both these watches the manufacturer has calibated in 6 positions hence my also measuring in 6 positions.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Easy E

However, have you seen any reports of the 32XX running fast, like in the +2 spd or higher range?

I have my own answer: 2019 BLNR
At 24HR - rate avg (5 pos) +3.08, Amp avg (5 pos) 240.2
At 48HR - rate avg (5 pos) +1.278, Amp avg (5 pos) 205.8

60Hr combined averages (I don't know if this a thing or not) Rate +1.9, Amplitude 221

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by Easy E

relax Charles, will get added to the graph shortly

A little off topic but how much are you paying (Bribing) Saxo3 to produce a speedy graph.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I have been measuring another couple of my watches.

They are from a different brand to Rolex (Or Tudor).

These readings below show how a watch should be.

On both these watches the manufacturer has calibated in 6 positions hence my also my measuring in 6 positions.

Do you mind sharing watch - mfg/model?

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

A little off topic but how much are you paying (Bribing) Saxo3 to produce a speedy graph.

Maybe

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by machine=art

I've been reading this valuable forum for some time now and really didn't believe I had much to contribute, until now.
TBC

Firstly, Welcome to the forum and especially this thread.

It would on first glance appear that your watch is very similar to many if not all of our watches.

[saxo3]

My compact summary of what we have seen from EasyE’s six 32xx watches.

A graph is worth more than a thousand words.

Here are 12 graphs :-)





The blue shaded area in the rate graphs show the COSC certification criteria (-4/+6 sec/day).

[machine=art]

Thank you for the greeting Charles.

I’d like to share some numbers but can’t seem to edit my post.
Am I missing something??

[machine=art]

…Never-mind. It appears that the second post (and question) magically activated the edit button.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by saxo3

My compact summary of what we have seen from EasyE’s six 32xx watches.

A graph is worth more than a thousand words.

Here are 12 graphs :-)





The blue shaded area in the rate graphs show the COSC certification criteria (-4/+6 sec/day).

Saxo, this is amazing. Thank you for the efforts on these graphs. I think this will make Charles happy.

[WatchMySix]

Originally Posted by saxo3

My compact summary of what we have seen from EasyE’s six 32xx watches.

A graph is worth more than a thousand words.

Here are 12 graphs :-)





The blue shaded area in the rate graphs show the COSC certification criteria (-4/+6 sec/day).

Few things make me happier than organized data. To bad it's about my bracelet that is trying to hold time.


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[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by machine=art

…Never-mind. It appears that the second post (and question) magically activated the edit button.

The edkt button is only available to you for a brief time after you have made a post ....(I think it is an hour or two).

But ..... How about sharing your data.

If you want to log your error without using a Timegrapher a good iPhone app is WatchTracker.

But, A Timegrapher is a really good and useful tool ..... Not expensive and available easily on Amazon. Weishi is the brand many use and the model 1900. You can see a picture of it posted by Easy E a few posts earlier in this thread.

[Easy E]

Now that I am done being shocked by how awesome Saxo3 is and how bad some of my watches are performing I have a question or two about warranty service.

Does Rolex consider a warranty event based on COSC +6/-4 range or do they consider a warranty event in their stated +2/-2 spec?

Is that measured at full wind, 24 hr mark, or the average measurement over a period of time?

Is that based on the average of 5 positions at whatever point of measurement or do all 5 positions have to achieve a performance standard?

Same basic question(s) in regards to amplitude. Is that an average over time, or at a particular point in time? What point in time or what average? Does each position have to achieve a specified amplitude or the average amplitude?

[saxo3]

These are the results for 6 (out of 8) 32xx watches measured by EasyE.



Amplitude values for all horizontal (DU, DD) and vertical positions (9U, 6U, 3U) are summarized after full winding (t = 0) and 24 hours later (t = 24 H).

24 hours after full winding 5 of the 6 watches have at least one vertical amplitude below 200 degrees.

Based on my experience at the RSC, this is sufficient to request a control (service, repair) of all 3235 and 3255 movements.

The 3285 of the GMT-Master II (126710BLNR) is still quite good.

One Submariner 126619B (3235) and one GMT-Master II 126710BLRO (3285) remain to be measured by EasyE.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Now that I am done being shocked by how awesome Saxo3 is and how bad some of my watches are performing I have a question or two about warranty service.

Full marks to Saxo3 for all the time and effort put into the illustrations and graphics.
It makes sense of everything which we can pretty much see and understand at a glance

Now if only Rolex could do something about this utterly appalling situation they have created
In all fairness, I suppose it took Omega a while to more or less get their house in order and that was after they were handed the Co-axial on a platter.
Maybe a new Rolex movement or escapement is just around the corner?
It all goes to demonstrate that it's really all not so easy when one is venturing into uncharted waters.

[Andad]

X2.

Nice work E.

And you gave Rolex the benefit of COSC and not their own standard for these movements.

[WatchMySix]

It's just mind boggling. You would think these movements endure years of R&D before they are market ready. I guess the real benefit for Rolex now is 90% of people aren't using these watches as true tools. The funny part is I am, and now that I can almost with certain say that my sub isn't +2/-2 seconds a day, I'm worried about the self proclaimed shock resistance.


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[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

I'm worried about the self proclaimed shock resistance.

There is NO reason at all to be worried about the Shock Resistance.

You can breathe a sigh of relief !

As far as I know there has not been one report of problems there.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

You would think these movements endure years of R&D before they are market ready.

Rolex do do years of research before releasing a new movement or watch etc. But, Pehaps their research is not quite true to life when compared to a testing environment.

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

I guess the real benefit for Rolex now is 90% of people aren't using these watches as true tools.

More than 99% of people will never notice the fault. They just wont check the Precision or Accuracy to the levels that we do. They certainly wont use the watch as a true "Tool Watch" as they purely want the cache of wearing "The Crown".

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

90% of people aren't using these watches as true tools. The funny part is I am

Give us a Clue ..... What and how are you using your watch in a "Tool Watch" manner.

Originally Posted by WatchMySix

I can almost with certain say that my sub isn't +2/-2 seconds a day

Rolex state the The PRECISION is +/-2 seconds per day.

Thats NOT the ACCURACY .... IMHO Rolex have done a marketing trick to confuse people. They also seem to have "Got away with it".

[PekWatchGuy]

I have to agree with CharlesN.

[WatchMySix]

Give us a Clue ..... What and how are you using your watch in a "Tool Watch" manner.

- sky diving, mountaineering, and different forms of shooting, are some of the rougher activities I do with it. I'm in the army, and wear my sub everyday to work.


Rolex state the The PRECISION is +/-2 seconds per day.

Thats NOT the ACCURACY .... IMHO Rolex have done a marketing trick to confuse people. They also seem to have "Got away with it".[/QUOTE]

Oh I know. In order to truly trust your equipment though you want the proclaimed specifications / features to be correct. Otherwise you get the sense that you've been mislead.....


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