Would a Grey Dealer Refund your Money if RSC seized the watch the grey sold u?

[HogwldFLTR]

After two pages of replies, I'm convinced that for 100% peace of mind go with an AD. If someone can live with a small amount of doubt and want's a watch in a hurry than go with a trusted seller. If one can live with a much greater amount of doubt, I suggest buying on the street in some shady area for the cheapest possible option.

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

After two pages of replies, I'm convinced that for 100% peace of mind go with an AD. If someone can live with a small amount of doubt and want's a watch in a hurry than go with a trusted seller. If one can live with a much greater amount of doubt, I suggest buying on the street in some shady area for the cheapest possible option.

Are you are telling me that the lady in Washington DC who sold me my Daytona out of a breadbasket she was carrying around the Washington Monument might not be as legitimate as DavidSW?

(I agree with you.)

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Gab27

Are you are telling me that the lady in Washington DC who sold me my Daytona out of a breadbasket she was carrying around the Washington Monument might not be as legitimate as DavidSW?

(I agree with you.)

Oh no, she’s fine, I bought a meteorite Daytona from her just yesterday. I had to replace the battery but other then that it’s fine.

[Gary Busey]

By definition not a trusted seller if that happened


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[Daytona88]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Oh no, she’s fine, I bought a meteorite Daytona from her just yesterday. I had to replace the battery but other then that it’s fine.

[TimeAZ]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

After two pages of replies, I'm convinced that for 100% peace of mind go with an AD.

This is the obvious choice but in reality is just not feasible for average buyers. Also, if you have any interest in a discontinued model (e.g. Exp. 39), then obviously no choice at all!

[faz]

Read through this thread, got a headache.

Why bring up a hypothetical situation and argue why you think some people would or would not behave a certain way???

A good trusted seller doesn’t source his/her watches from any shady seller. if I were in the business of buying luxury goods to resell to public , I would have my resources to check the validity of the good and not buy stolen goods to begin with.

So all in all, possibility of a well known trusted seller ending up with a stolen goods is minimal if not zero.

If they do end up with a stolen watch and sell it unknowingly , the last thing they would want is for their years of reputation go down the drain for a measly $10k mistake , so I am sure they would buy it back in an instant to keep their shining reputation.

Now if you go on a Facebook group and buy from some random dude across the country, good luck clearing that situation.

I would have no second thoughts about buying from well known trusted sellers here and/or selling to them if the need ever arises. If anyone doesn’t feel comfortable enough, they shouldn’t do deals with trusted sellers. Honestly the more demand there is on trusted sellers the more they will charge, so yeah, on a second thought, please walk away from them and reduce the demand on them as much as you can.


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[Gab27]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Oh no, she’s fine, I bought a meteorite Daytona from her just yesterday. I had to replace the battery but other then that it’s fine.

Good. I was worried there for a second.

I asked her if it was authentic and she assured me it was, alongside the Maui Jims and iPhone 14 I purchased from her.

She told me the Maui Jims' are a special limited edition as they are marked "Maui Jimseses".

[Bizcut1]

Dude obviously had (or has) an agenda...

"I bet this happened," or, "more times than not, this probably happened."

What an idiot.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by Bizcut1

Dude obviously had (or has) an agenda...

"I bet this happened," or, "more times than not, this probably happened."

What an idiot.

My agenda is that I don't want to get ripped off, and I'm not about to trust these so called "trusted" dealers just because the peanut gallery proclaims they are trusted.

Originally Posted by CFR

Funny coincidence. This exact situation recently happened to me with a reputable preowned dealer and his well-known SA. The watch wasn't a Rolex, but the dealer is very much the equivalent of a "Trusted Seller." I had never done business with this dealer or this SA, but many others I know have. I had made a firm deal with the SA, but he reneged the next day, falsely claiming our deal was "hypothetical." This happened because they decided right after making the deal with me that they wanted to try to sell the watch for more money (I know this because they told me). After writing a pointed email to the SA -- who did a bad thing here but who probably isn't a bad person generally -- about how his reputation would suffer in this relatively small community if he became widely known for these sorts of shenanigans, I heard from the business owner. The owner said he wanted to make it right and acknowledged that you're only as good as your most recent transaction. My idea of "making it right" was to honor our deal and sell me the watch for the agreed-upon price and the agreed-upon terms -- nothing more and nothing less. Should've been fast and easy. But it ended up taking 4 months for the business owner to finally do this because he said the watch had been promised to one of their regular clients as part of a trade immediately after they reneged with me and so they had to unwind that subsequent deal, etc. In the end, I got the watch, though the business owner asked me for more money and charged me for shipping that was originally included, all of which left a bad taste in my mouth. I got very clear indications during those intervening 4 months that they were hoping I would just go away -- "run out of steam" as the OP said. Check-in texts that I'd send every 2-3 weeks started going unanswered, etc. Sadly, I don't think I would've gotten the watch if we were back in the pre-internet days and if they weren't afraid of the hit they'd take if I started naming names on watch forums. And I'm still unsure how I'd answer the question, "So did they make it right?" as it's not a simple yes or no. I guess I'm grateful the owner took the initiative to reach out to me initially and to deliver the watch in the end, though I remain bothered by the ridiculous amount of effort I had to put into this. [Sorry for the rant!]

No one wants to be in a nightmare scenario as a buyer of a Rolex Watch, except these peanut gallery critics who proclaim ad nauseam to trust trust trust, and I personally do not trust that type of behavior.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

there is reputation i.e people going on and on about being "trusted" this or "trusted" that. then there are those who stand behind the integrity of their product and will make the customer whole if they sell the customer a product that was reported stolen and then gets seized by rsc. Now that is what I would call a trusted dealer, something like what Keldw mentioned. Something based on actions not words.

I find it really pathetic that out of all of these trusted dealers none of them are coming in here with the exception of Keldw to show through actions that they have taken in the past just how trustworthy they are. Instead we have the peanut gallery proclaiming they are trusted, and then when you ask for details you don't get answers you get criticism just for asking why they are so trusted. Talk about a red flag.

The problem with looking for examples based on actions and not just words is that those resellers would have to have actually sold stolen watches in the first place.

If they are doing their job correctly ("my" UK based reseller checks every watch they are considering taking into stock directly with Rolex UK over and above checking and verifying the identity of everyone they deal with as a buyer or seller) then they won't be acquiring stolen watches.

If they've never dealt with a stolen watch they won't be able to tell you what they did.

If they simply say "we'd refund you" you clearly wouldn't accept that as it is bereft of any physical examples to evidence to your satisfaction their trustworthyness.

If you are looking for examples of actions that were not taken because there was no event from which those actions were derived you will be looking until the end of time.

[HHIslander]

Between all the TS, there are many thousands of transactions over the years. The hypothetical situation hasn't happened in any of them. Not only that, I cannot think of one transaction with a TS listed here that had problems and the buyer wasn't made right in the end. Their reputation is all they have.

The idea that the TS need to come in here and defend themselves isn't really rational. The idea that they can't be trusted because they didn't come in here to defend themselves is even more irrational.

You don't want to trust a TS, then don't buy from them. Other people (like me) do trust the TS. Let us buy in peace, it's no skin off your nose. Live and let live.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

My agenda is that I don't want to get ripped off, and I'm not about to trust these so called "trusted" dealers just because the peanut gallery proclaims they are trusted.

Then ask a seller and report back here.

Or just don't buy from them.

Simple.

[Bizcut1]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Between all the TS, there are many thousands of transactions over the years. The hypothetical situation hasn't happened in any of them. Not only that, I cannot think of one transaction with a TS listed here that had problems and the buyer wasn't made right in the end. Their reputation is all they have.

The idea that the TS need to come in here and defend themselves isn't really rational. The idea that they can't be trusted because they didn't come in here to defend themselves is even more irrational.

You don't want to trust a TS, then don't buy from them. Other people (like me) do trust the TS. Let us buy in peace, it's no skin off your nose. Live and let live.

Just remember that you are a member of the "peanut gallery," according to this tosser...

[htrap2294]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

My agenda is that I don't want to get ripped off, and I'm not about to trust these so called "trusted" dealers just because the peanut gallery proclaims they are trusted.



No one wants to be in a nightmare scenario as a buyer of a Rolex Watch, except these peanut gallery critics who proclaim ad nauseam to trust trust trust, and I personally do not trust that type of behavior.

Go down to your local AD and register interest. This is your only real guarantee. Anything else is speculation. And yes, speculation because there is not one thread here I have seen regarding this situation about a current Trusted Seller.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Between all the TS, there are many thousands of transactions over the years. The hypothetical situation hasn't happened in any of them. Not only that, I cannot think of one transaction with a TS listed here that had problems and the buyer wasn't made right in the end. Their reputation is all they have.

The idea that the TS need to come in here and defend themselves isn't really rational. The idea that they can't be trusted because they didn't come in here to defend themselves is even more irrational.

You don't want to trust a TS, then don't buy from them. Other people (like me) do trust the TS. Let us buy in peace, it's no skin off your nose. Live and let live.

well said, and it's even funnier that one seller came in here and said he would refund the buyer in this case and OP just ran with it and keeps saying that's the only one he can trust. anyone can come and post that they'll refund the buyer and it's apparently enough for OP, but thousands of positive reviews aren't lol

[Blansky]

Yeah....but what if???

I hear ya but ...what if???

[GONZO2LR]

They are calling you trusted sellers out....so why dont you answer!!!!!.......

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by huncho

well said, and it's even funnier that one seller came in here and said he would refund the buyer in this case and OP just ran with it and keeps saying that's the only one he can trust. anyone can come and post that they'll refund the buyer and it's apparently enough for OP, but thousands of positive reviews aren't lol

lol. Agreed, none of this makes any sense. This is one of those threads that makes me look at the time and location to try and figure out if happy hour just ended.

[Watchcollector123]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

I guess it entirely depends on the grey. Remember the first rule of buying second had watches; buy the seller.

I have religiously followed this advice and ended up with too many sellers. Can’t figure out where to house them all.

[train-time]

Originally Posted by huncho

well said, and it's even funnier that one seller came in here and said he would refund the buyer in this case and OP just ran with it and keeps saying that's the only one he can trust. anyone can come and post that they'll refund the buyer and it's apparently enough for OP, but thousands of positive reviews aren't lol

The one seller, self-proclaimed Grey Market dealer, is a member here from who has not posted any FS on TRF and states that he would refund a buyer in this situation. I'm sorry, he has no trust to deliver on that in my book. He's a total unknown with nothing to lose going silent.

Originally Posted by GONZO2LR

They are calling you trusted sellers out....so why dont you answer!!!!!.......

They are not calling out the trusted sellers, it's just the OP that has this obsession. I personally have known a few of the guys being referred to as trusted sellers for years and believe me when I tell you, I trust them completely.

[Calatrava r]

So much confusion arises because people call used watch dealers the grey market. Grey markets are unsold new products dumped by the manufacturers or distributors into parallel lines of distribution, typically without warranties. With Rolex all these watch dealers are simply used watch dealers. They sell used watches which someone else owned and sold to them. There will always be problems with stolen stuff getting into used watch dealer's inventories. This is why prudent buyers want box and papers. B&P reduce the risk but not totally. The key is to only buy from established used watch dealers who will refund your purchase price at any time a watch they sold you turns out to be stolen. Perhaps, in an ideal world, used watch dealers would only buy from the original owners with box and papers and sales receipts from the AD. Once a watch trades hands a few times there is really no way to fully understand it's provenance, even if the last seller to the used watch dealer is a regular and stellar, legit client of the used watch dealer.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by beshannon

Then ask a seller and report back here.

Or just don't buy from them.

Simple.

Agree. Or keep beating a dead horse. Your call.

But the reason no big name trusted sellers are "chiming in" is also simple. They have no reason to respond to troll hypothetical questions.

[hondacb1002]

For these so called trusted sellers to not have clearly written guarantees that the buyer will be made whole if their watch is seized by RSC because it was reported stolen is a red flag. But I guess they are trusted so much they don't have to offer any kinda guarantees or put anything in writing... Oh and btw if you are a Rolex Collector and want to test the validity of the so called trusted seller you will have to deal with the peanut gallery and their illogical reasoning. I mean if these guys are such trusted sellers... why don't they have any standards amongst this group of proclaimed trusted sellers? simple stuff like making the client whole if they are sold a watch that is seized by RSC. I mean you would think someone who is trusted or a group of trusted sellesr would hold themselves to a higher standard like this. But apparently according to the peanut gallery its not OK to ask anything about a trusted seller. You have to just trust them and trust the peanut gallery. that is a big no and not how trust works at all.

Why aren't the trusted sellers of rolexforum creating standards of what actions will be taken in a nightmare situation for a buyer. So that if you are a trusted seller here you have to abide by basic business guidelines of a course of action that must be taken when a nightmare scenario occurs.

Believe it or not in life sometimes shit hits the fan, but apparently according to the peanut gallery this is against the laws of physics with their proclaimed trusted sellers! get outta here with that BS line of logic....

The peanut gallery's response is a bunch of hand waiving and proclaiming "all they have is their reputation. you must trust them" . What kind of logic is there in this reasoning? Why don't these trusted sellers actually put things in writing so that sellers know that they will be made whole in a nightmare scenario etc. So weird for a group of trusted sellers to not have any kinda guarantees like that. Who trusts that in all honesty?

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

Why aren't the trusted sellers of rolexforum creating standards of what actions will be taken in a nightmare situation for a buyer. So that if you are a trusted seller here you have to abide by basic business guidelines of a course of action that must be taken when a nightmare scenario occurs.

I will try to help since you clearly do not understand.

A seller, here on the forum is just another person. They may or may not have a business. They have nothing to do with the forum other than they are a member here.

If you have a question you need to take it up with an individual seller, not the forum and not the community at large.

Good luck.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by beshannon

I will try to help since you clearly do not understand.

A seller, here on the forum is just another person. They may or may not have a business. They have nothing to do with the forum other than they are a member here.

If you have a question you need to take it up with an individual seller, not the forum and not the community at large.

Good luck.

why say so much when you can say the same thing with so little words? You can simply describe the trusted sellers here as people who fly-by-night according to your own words beshannon

fly-by-night = (Entry 1 of 2) 1 : one that seeks to evade responsibilities and especially creditors by flight. 2 : one without established reputation or standing especially : a shaky business enterprise.


There is a reason these trusted sellers aren't putting things in writing they are operating a fly-by-night business practice. I'm glad beshannon brought that to everyone's attention just a pity you can't use less words to say the same thing.

[HHIslander]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

why say so much when you can say the same thing with so little words? You can simply describe the trusted sellers here as people who fly-by-night according to your own words beshannon

fly-by-night = (Entry 1 of 2) 1 : one that seeks to evade responsibilities and especially creditors by flight. 2 : one without established reputation or standing especially : a shaky business enterprise.


There is a reason these trusted sellers aren't putting things in writing they are operating a fly-by-night business practice. I'm glad beshannon brought that to everyone's attention just a pity you can't use less words to say the same thing.

Now you’re just trolling.

[ArtNouveau]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Now you’re just trolling.

He’s been trolling for weeks now. What a bizarre obsession.

[hondacb1002]

Originally Posted by HHIslander

Now you’re just trolling.

no. you are just accusing me of being a troll is all you are doing. What I have stated is exactly what beshannon described i.e what is commonly called a fly-by-night operation. I also care a great deal about efficiency and I don't enjoy overly verbose statements. So I informed beshannon that what was being described is literally called a fly-by-night operation for how the trusted sellers were spoken of here. No standards, Nothing written to give a client a sense of knowing they will be taken care of in a nightmare situation. That is exactly the type of business practices that fly-by-night people do as well and same here with the trusted sellers. I'm sorry but that isn't trolling it is just callings things what they are without being overly verbose.

[Bizcut1]

Originally Posted by hondacb1002

no. you are just accusing me of being a troll is all you are doing. What I have stated is exactly what beshannon described i.e what is commonly called a fly-by-night operation. I also care a great deal about efficiency and I don't enjoy overly verbose statements. So I informed beshannon that what was being described is literally called a fly-by-night operation for how the trusted sellers were spoken of here. No standards, Nothing written to give a client a sense of knowing they will be taken care of in a nightmare situation. That is exactly the type of business practices that fly-by-night people do as well and same here with the trusted sellers. I'm sorry but that isn't trolling it is just callings things what they are without being overly verbose.

No. You ARE a troll.

You care a great deal about efficiency...good one.



Is this my ex-wife in disguise....???? Honey, is that you?