Buying grey in the US of A

[UKDan]

I’m in the UK and had a few questions about buying from grey’s in the US that I’m sure some of you guys from across the pond can answer.

Is the price specified by the grey dealer the price you actually pay? I’ve been to the US plenty of times and when purchasing goods at the register they add taxes on etc so the price on the tag is not what you actually pay. Is this the same when buying a piece from a grey? I’ve read comments before about shipping out of state that seems popular?

I’m aware when shipping to the UK there will be duties due on this side of the pond, but more interested in understanding how this works domestically in the US only.

Any help/advice about the most “efficient” method for grey buying in the US would be much appreciated.

[Captain Scrumpy]

Interesting topic. Often wondered about the intricacies of this myself. Subscribed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tvandevelde]

So if you're buying at a brick and mortar in person, you'll pay what ever that state's sales tax rate is. They're all different. If that business does not have a physical presence in the state you're having the watch shipped to, you're not taxed.

I live in northern Kentucky. About 10 minutes from Cincinnati, Ohio. Ohio sellers can "ship" the watch to me and I pay no sales tax.

How you smuggle it back into Europe is up to you

[exador]

If they’re exporting the watch, no state taxes.

[UKDan]

Originally Posted by tvandevelde

So if you're buying at a brick and mortar in person, you'll pay what ever that state's sales tax rate is. They're all different. If that business does not have a physical presence in the state you're having the watch shipped to, you're not taxed.

I live in northern Kentucky. About 10 minutes from Cincinnati, Ohio. Ohio sellers can "ship" the watch to me and I pay no sales tax.

How you smuggle it back into Europe is up to you

Thanks for the info!

Assume it’s only sales tax that gets added if you are buying in person? Are there any other state/domestic taxes that get added?

[tvandevelde]

Originally Posted by UKDan

Thanks for the info!

Assume it’s only sales tax that gets added if you are buying in person? Are there any other state/domestic taxes that get added?

Nope. Assuming you're buying from someone reputable though, they'll most likely declare the actual value. I buy a lot from overseas, but don't ship out of the country. FedEx, UPS, DHL act as a broker for customs and you pay your imports duties plus their fee.

I have had dozens of watches shipped to me via EMS - to the USPS and have not been hit with a customs bill yet.

[Nairn1980]

From my understanding you’ll pay their price plus their state sales tax. You’ll then have Import fees and vat. That’s my understanding.

[Andad]

When importing to Oz I would expect to pay the US price + freight + clearance charges in Oz + GST.
I would not expect to pay US State sales taxes.

Just like buying duty free I would expect.

[REFZ]

There will be no sales tax (the watch is exported) on that purchase but you will have to pay the 20% VAT (in the UK) when bringing it into the EU.

Most of the times you can buy the same watch for less within the EU.

Check the UK "gov website" for more info about this subject.

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by REFZ

There will be no sales tax (the watch is exported) on that purchase but you will have to pay the 20% VAT (in the UK) when bringing it into the EU.

Most of the times you can buy the same watch for less within the EU.

Check the UK "gov website" for more info about this subject.

How do you purchase in the USA and get state sales tax refunded? I always pay sales tax when I purchase in the USA and am always told this cannot be refunded.

Advice appreciated as I go to USA at least once a year.

[Swearengen]

Used to be the case if you had the watch delivered out of the state the grey/AD is in you could get it with zero sales tax, as its a State tax, as far as I understand

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

How do you purchase in the USA and get state sales tax refunded? I always pay sales tax when I purchase in the USA and am always told this cannot be refunded.

Advice appreciated as I go to USA at least once a year.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by UKDan

Is the price specified by the grey dealer the price you actually pay?

I would guess that would depend on the individual dealer? Have you spoken to any?

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

How do you purchase in the USA and get state sales tax refunded? I always pay sales tax when I purchase in the USA and am always told this cannot be refunded.

Advice appreciated as I go to USA at least once a year.

As far as I know some states have tax free programs (such as Texas), some stores have their own programs where they have visitor passes allowing you to save amount that would be equal to tax you pay so while you pay sales tax you pay same amount as you'd pay if you were buying in a state with no sales tax such as Delaware. Finally, you avoid sales tax by shipping. If you're buying a watch from a dealer in let's say, hypothetically, Orlando, Florida, and ship it to New York City, you don't pay either Florida or NY state or local city/county taxes either Orlando or NYC would impose. Then if you're a US resident you're supposed to pay a use tax. Which you don't if you don't live in the US. However you'd still have to pay for importing things into UK assuming they are over allowance like a watch would be.

If you were living in a country like Russia where import limit for goods is $10K (or 10K Euros, can't remember) when you're flying in it'd be much more lucrative to buy expensive items in the US from out of state dealers to save on sales tax and then take them with you. For those living in EU, unless you have to get an extremely rare watch that only a dealer in US has in needed condition and with required specifics, you're better off just buying within EU. And if it is that case, you might as well ship it directly from US because you still will pay no US sales tax as you're shipping out of US and the tax you'll pay on import is also the same whether you fly in or ship it.

[Swearengen]

Also some of the "trusted sellers" have a form of VAT/Duty mitigation for export

[Nairn1980]

Originally Posted by georgekart

As far as I know some states have tax free programs (such as Texas), some stores have their own programs where they have visitor passes allowing you to save amount that would be equal to tax you pay so while you pay sales tax you pay same amount as you'd pay if you were buying in a state with no sales tax such as Delaware. Finally, you avoid sales tax by shipping. If you're buying a watch from a dealer in let's say, hypothetically, Orlando, Florida, and ship it to New York City, you don't pay either Florida or NY state or local city/county taxes either Orlando or NYC would impose. Then if you're a US resident you're supposed to pay a use tax. Which you don't if you don't live in the US. However you'd still have to pay for importing things into UK assuming they are over allowance like a watch would be.

If you were living in a country like Russia where import limit for goods is $10K (or 10K Euros, can't remember) when you're flying in it'd be much more lucrative to buy expensive items in the US from out of state dealers to save on sales tax and then take them with you. For those living in EU, unless you have to get an extremely rare watch that only a dealer in US has in needed condition and with required specifics, you're better off just buying within EU. And if it is that case, you might as well ship it directly from US because you still will pay no US sales tax as you're shipping out of US and the tax you'll pay on import is also the same whether you fly in or ship it.

Cheers for that. Yes the amount tourists typically spend in Orlando is huge. I have never seen anyone managing to avoid paying state sales tax despite them taking the product out of the country soon after.

[marc2828]

When I bought my SD43, the AD refused to ship and I had to pay state tax. Other watches, I have shipped to neighboring state and avoided state tax, but paid shipping. Other issue is some AD's have branches in multiple states...if they have a store in the next state, they collect the tax even if you wanna ship. Just depends. The grays in NYC 47th street....you pay cash, no tax.

[georgekart]

Originally Posted by Nairn1980

Cheers for that. Yes the amount tourists typically spend in Orlando is huge. I have never seen anyone managing to avoid paying state sales tax despite them taking the product out of the country soon after.

If you buy it in there in person you have to pay the sales tax and as far as I know Florida has no refund program. If you ship it to L.A. or N.Y.C. though, you can definitely avoid paying sales tax. You can even go into store, pick what you want agree with them to ship it out of state to a hotel or a friend's place and receive it then. But once again you'll have to pay import fees when you arrive in EU so it's not worth it. Might as well make a deal to ship straight into EU if you really decide to buy in US for some reason.

[pradeepraavi]

All of the Grey dealers are on this forum and / or on WUS etc. So, just like when you buy from an individual selling on these forums, you don't have to pay anything beyond the stated price.

Customs fees will be on you though unless friends or family can take delivery and hand carry for you.

[donas]

To clarify, all this talk of shipping to another state to "avoid" sales tax is accurate but the word "avoid" is synonymous with - not pay something one should. I am not being a hypocrite, as I've done the same, but tax should be paid whether it's from the state of purchase or from one's home state (if applicable). Again, I'm not telling anyone what to do, but merely answering the OP question of how taxation works. Tax is not solely the burden of the seller to charge, but also the buyer to pay.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by pradeepraavi

Customs fees will be on you though unless friends or family can take delivery and hand carry for you.

Legal duties are still required unless you are suggesting involving them in illegal actions too?

[mmaggi]

Well hold on....

I'm from NY. If I buy ONLINE from grays located outside NY, (Georgia for example) they will charge me NY State Sales Tax since some states have agreed to collect sales tax for certain states such as NY. Texas & California will NOT collect NY sales tax from me should I make a purchase from them. I've gotten different answers from Florida grays (some will and some will not).

And there are ways around not getting charged local sales tax if making the purchase in person. If I go to Texas and buy a watch in person, they will ship the box to my home in NY to prove the purchase was online and not in person and not charge me Texas sales tax. A friend of mind did this.

[zoenatenich]

Originally Posted by tvandevelde

Nope. Assuming you're buying from someone reputable though, they'll most likely declare the actual value. I buy a lot from overseas, but don't ship out of the country. FedEx, UPS, DHL act as a broker for customs and you pay your imports duties plus their fee.

I have had dozens of watches shipped to me via EMS - to the USPS and have not been hit with a customs bill yet.

This. I have bought watches overseas, Japan and Hongkong, and when shipped EMS to the US, I never paid a customs bill.

[RJRJRJ]

If you buy in person, you'll have to pay sales tax which should range between 5-10% depending on the state. There are a handful of states that do not have sales tax as well. If you buy from a grey and ship overseas, it's unlikely that you would pay sales tax, but that would be more of a dealer specific thing on how they do business. Speak to the dealer you are interested in buying from and they can tell you.

[2x4]

I have several business addresses throughout the south. My AD said he would ship it to another state and then they could forward to the state i was living in.
He did all the boxing, and labeling. All the original address had to do was open the box and give it back to the FEDEX guy.