GMT Master 1675/0 Identification?

[number-six]

Hi,
Just joined and I have a GMT Master 'Pepsi' that I bought from a fellow musician around 1979/80. I thought some of you may like to show off your knowledge and expertise of these fine machines and help me find out more about it. I moved to Australia shortly after buying it and it's been in the ocean a few times. The red on the bezel has faded but not the blue. I've worn it most days since I've had it and would be lost without it.

It was serviced by Rolex in 1993, 2007 and 2011 with a UK watchmaker in 2014. One of those visits was to get it certified for insurance purposes.
Rolex printed "1675/0" on the card with a serial# of 4,4nn,nnn.

From what I can gather it may have had a few changed parts before I bought it.
The case needed work to certify waterproof to the regulation depth, perhaps a new case 'inner'. I don't have photos of the mechanism but Rolex told me it was "like new" in 1993.

There are a few things that make me wonder.
The ‘E’ in Rolex is long, as in all 3 bars are equal length unlike later models.
Also, the hyphen between 'GMT -Master' is almost attached to the ‘M’ and not equidistant to the 'T'.
The lume dots are very close to the 'track'. And any 'rings' around the lume dots are from the camera, it has no dot surrounds.

Can anyone shed some light please?

[Styles Bitchley]

Sounds like they had to change the case to make it waterproof on that service. 4.4 million serial is a replacement case. It’s possible they didn’t clearly explain that to you. I love that it’s been through so much with you on your wrist. True character.

[rootbeer7]

It looks like a Mk1 Long E, but looks like it’s been relumed or washed. It’s a bit odd. Case is definitely a service case if numbered 4.4xxxxxx

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

Sounds like they had to change the case to make it waterproof on that service. 4.4 million serial is a replacement case. It’s possible they didn’t clearly explain that to you. I love that it’s been through so much with you on your wrist. True character.

great pick up on the 4.4. That totally went over my head. Yes, shame as it is a replacement case. The dial and hands also see more recent, retouched maybe?

[number-six]

Thanks for the feedback so far.
Back in '93 I had to get the case fixed as Rolex wouldn't certify it for insurance unless I did.
40 years from purchase, I'm wondering if it's worth much?
Here's another photo. Not many with a "long 'E'" that I can see.

[Flyingpig698]

Hi it looks nearer to “M” because you are comparing to the vertical bar of the “T”. If you take the top horizontal bar of the “T” it’ll be evenly spaced.
And yes that’s a MK1 dial with washed lumes. My opinion.


Best Regards,
Danny

[number-six]

Hi, what does "washed" mean with watches?
The dial hasn't had anything done to it while I've had it, since 1979.
Just the case. The invoice says "supply new case middle".
I took a photo of the model#.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by number-six

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Back in '93 I had to get the case fixed as Rolex wouldn't certify it for insurance unless I did.

40 years from purchase, I'm wondering if it's worth much?

Here's another photo. Not many with a "long 'E'" that I can see.

It’s be worth something but near the bottom of what a 1675 would sell for. I guess the assumption is that it was originally a long E GMT from the late 60s and the case was well worn by the 90s. Maybe some water got in and damaged the original tritium? It might be with a bit more if you could verify the work done at Rolex. At least it would prove its more than a collection of parts put together.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by number-six

Hi, what does "washed" mean with watches?.

There’s no tritium left on the hour markers. Just the white circles of paint underneath where it would have been.

[Wahlberg]

The hands look new as well?

[number-six]

I didn't know about service cases so just had a look at that - not good as regards resale price.
I don't know if the 4.4 case was there in 1979 when I bought it or it was added in 1993.
Rolex stated "supply new case middle". I have no idea what the 'middle' is or if it was a case replacement. I'd never looked at the case numbers before either in 40 years.
Those lume circles only show when I photograph under a bright light - I cant see circles even with a magnifying glass.
I'm trying to get a valuation on it as I may have to sell it soon.

[offrdmania]

"Supply new case middle" means replacement of the case. A 4.4 million serial is what Rolex set aside for replacement cases and do not correspond to any particular year. You would need the watches original paperwork to tell you when the watch was originally made.
Also, the dial has been washed and no longer has its luminous tritium on it which is a shame.
The watch is a nice wearer and presents well but it has lost most of its collector value. Probably worth around $6,000usd if you do have the original paperwork. Less if you dont.

[number-six]

Not noticed it's lost luminosity before but I checked and I can faintly see the hands and two dots in a pitch black room. Maybe the UV here in the sub-tropics but it's not leaked recently. Maybe they tested it at Rolex and found a leak so replaced the case in 1993. Oh well, I needn't worry about it getting stolen if it's not worth much. Paperwork lost when I moved from the UK.
The watch will get cremated with me then. Cheers for the help.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by number-six

I didn't know about service cases so just had a look at that - not good as regards resale price.
I don't know if the 4.4 case was there in 1979 when I bought it or it was added in 1993.
Rolex stated "supply new case middle". I have no idea what the 'middle' is or if it was a case replacement. I'd never looked at the case numbers before either in 40 years.
Those lume circles only show when I photograph under a bright light - I cant see circles even with a magnifying glass.
I'm trying to get a valuation on it as I may have to sell it soon.

we're not meant to provide valuation advice on this forum but the prior reply has given you a steer. I think its worth less to be honest.

you got:

1) replacement middle case
2) service hands
3) washed dial

Thats most of the value there.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

The watch is a nice wearer and presents well but it has lost most of its collector value. Probably worth around $6,000usd if you do have the original paperwork. Less if you dont.

6k or less based on what? You don't even see these for sale at those prices. Please link me because I'll scoop one up for less than 6k. I don't care about the case being replaced.

And a true collectors piece is a complete original one in near NOS condition or actual NOS at +20-30k USD or a lot more (obviously).

[offrdmania]

Based on it being a new case. It is no longer the age that the original case was. New hands, damaged dial, new bracelet and no paperwork to verify it’s original age. At this point it would fall into the value of a late 14060 IMO which is right around 6 grand.
Even a 1675 from the late 60s with an original case, service dial, service hands and insert usually sell for around 10-11 grand at the absolute most on a good day.

[number-six]

Wish I had more info, I didn't think at the time.
Didn't keep the box but I never had original papers, just a box.
From what I've gathered this week, it seems to be built late 70s using an old case and dial. No idea why or where.
So, a 60s case that was replaced by a 4.4 in 1993 which I have the invoice for.
A 60-something dial that has lost its luminosity. I don't remember it getting wet inside but the new case must've needed a reason. How did Rolex know it needed one?
The mechanism, hands and bracelet are all pre-1979 as I haven't had any of that changed.
I can't ask the seller as I haven't seen him since 1980.
Someone complained I was after a valuation - well only wanted a rough idea as the closest I could come was between $1 and $10k ie. no idea. Is it worth selling?I haven't thought about it for 40 years.
I do appreciate your comments so thanks.

[Dan S]

I have seen 1675s with service dial, hands, and bezel insert sell on eBay auctions for $8k-$9k. Yours is hard to value because the service case which results in a loss of the serial number. On the other hand the dial is original, but washed. A buyer might have it relumed. And given the authentic parts a buyer could always send it in to Rolex and have them install service parts with a service. Don’t hold me to it but someone might pay $8k.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by number-six

Wish I had more info, I didn't think at the time.
Didn't keep the box but I never had original papers, just a box.
From what I've gathered this week, it seems to be built late 70s using an old case and dial. No idea why or where.
So, a 60s case that was replaced by a 4.4 in 1993 which I have the invoice for.
A 60-something dial that has lost its luminosity. I don't remember it getting wet inside but the new case must've needed a reason. How did Rolex know it needed one?
The mechanism, hands and bracelet are all pre-1979 as I haven't had any of that changed.
I can't ask the seller as I haven't seen him since 1980.
Someone complained I was after a valuation - well only wanted a rough idea as the closest I could come was between $1 and $10k ie. no idea. Is it worth selling?I haven't thought about it for 40 years.
I do appreciate your comments so thanks.

Mate, not a complaint, just simply stating the rules of this forum. Everyone spoke freely about it given your situation so don't take my comment the wrong way.

Mind you, these numbers being quoted are USD so do a conversion to AUD for a more "localised" comparison.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

Based on it being a new case. It is no longer the age that the original case was. New hands, damaged dial, new bracelet and no paperwork to verify it’s original age. At this point it would fall into the value of a late 14060 IMO which is right around 6 grand.
Even a 1675 from the late 60s with an original case, service dial, service hands and insert usually sell for around 10-11 grand at the absolute most on a good day.

You are basing this on gut feeling. If there is demand for something, people will buy. Most of the 1675s out there are at 9-10k USD and higher. People really want these watches, so if they can get one for 6k they would jump on it. So if you are able to source one (for example you're a vintage dealer), you would have to pay I assume somewhere at 7-8k USD.

I've seen a 1675 with a Pepsi bezel sell for around 6.8-7.5k USD. The watch was practically new with a service case - service dial and hands and jubilee bracelet. I don't know if the bracelet was new or not but that's not important. The thing is, people will jump on something like that. I wasn't in the market but even then I was having doubts if I should. It's a 1675 you can wear without issues and it looks brand new. What's not to like. Not everyone is a collector. And if you are a collector and play by the rules you have to spend a lot more than 10k usd to get a pristine piece for the future/collecting purporses.

And again, if you spot 6.000 USD 1675s please let me know. I'm sure a lot of others would be interested as well.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by number-six

I don't remember it getting wet inside but the new case must've needed a reason. How did Rolex know it needed one?

Rolex generally won’t guarantee a vintage watch as waterproof unless they’ve replaced the case back, case or both. They inspect it for pitting and scoring around the seal and usually err on the side of caution. That doesn’t mean it’s not water tight, just that it isn’t to their tolerance (which is very high).

[number-six]

Spoke to Rolex where the watch has been serviced since I bought it in 1979.
Their notes stated "circa '63" but don't know what that refers to, perhaps the prior case.
The "Long E" dial seems to be late 60s from websites.
The bracelet number indicates after 1975, so '79 would fit.
They don't have notes on any 'washing' and said they would have mentioned any damage at the service. I can remember checking the time at night around 2010 right before I went to the UK for 6 years. If it was washed before 1979 would it still glow 30 years later?
Does tritium fade over 50 years?
I'll get it serviced sometime and ask them to check the movement for an age indication of that and the hands.
I'm retiring it for now and buying something inexpensive. It may be worth something one day! Thanks for all your help, 40 years and I had no idea about this stuff, it was simply my old watch.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by number-six

Spoke to Rolex where the watch has been serviced since I bought it in 1979.
Their notes stated "circa '63" but don't know what that refers to, perhaps the prior case.
The "Long E" dial seems to be late 60s from websites.
The bracelet number indicates after 1975, so '79 would fit.
They don't have notes on any 'washing' and said they would have mentioned any damage at the service. I can remember checking the time at night around 2010 right before I went to the UK for 6 years. If it was washed before 1979 would it still glow 30 years later?
Does tritium fade over 50 years?
I'll get it serviced sometime and ask them to check the movement for an age indication of that and the hands.
I'm retiring it for now and buying something inexpensive. It may be worth something one day! Thanks for all your help, 40 years and I had no idea about this stuff, it was simply my old watch.

Try taking a really good close up of the hour markers on the dial. It might help. Rolex wouldn’t have removed the tritium, they would have replaced the dial. You did mention a UK independent service though...

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by number-six

It may be worth something one day! Thanks for all your help, 40 years and I had no idea about this stuff, it was simply my old watch.

It's already worth something today... Good luck!

[number-six]

Thanks! I'll try for a decent photo of that dial.
The cell phone makes it look different.
Very useful input from this forum.