The Unfortunate Truth about Vintage Rolex Repairs

[Chewbacca]

”If you are paying attention to the numbers, it should be painfully obvious that the demand for Rolex parts far exceeds the demand (sic) [supply is the assumed word here]. Appropriately the prices are constantly rising. The situation for older Rolex parts is made even worse by the fact that NRJ watchmakers can no longer purchase parts for calibers 15xx from Rolex anymore. The supply of parts in the market will never be replenished.”

- Jordan P. Ficklin Jordan P. Ficklin, CW21 certified watchmaker


https://www.professionalwatches.com/...rolex-repairs/

[alwayshere]

I think this is well known on this forum (or sub forum rather).

My gut feel is we'll end up having alot more reliance on aftermarket parts over time. If Rolex refuses to supply those parts, someone else will provide them. There is too much demand otherwise.

What is obviously happening now is the number of donor watches being stripped out for the inventory box which has also driven up prices for what is typically an "entry" level Rolex.

[Richard Carver]

...carver crawls out of his 65 Mustang which doesn't have an original part on it and ambles into the forum;;;

I'm so impressed with the traditionalists who insist on using oil from 60 years ago when servicing vintage Rolex; Who needs 10 year service intervals?? Three years is plenty!

What? That's different? I see.

[uhren917]

Thanks for sharing, very interesting read.

[Dan S]

This is true of virtually every vintage watch, but for some reason the hand-wringing seems to be confined to Rolex. Parts are always a challenge for vintage watches. Collectors and watchmakers accumulate parts over time, buy parts watches/movements, etc. That's part of the pastime. If that's not for you, and you want the manufacturer to service your watches indefinitely, stick to modern watches.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

...carver crawls out of his 65 Mustang which doesn't have an original part on it and ambles into the forum;;;

I'm so impressed with the traditionalists who insist on using oil from 60 years ago when servicing vintage Rolex; Who needs 10 year service intervals?? Three years is plenty!

What? That's different? I see.

I don't care what oil you use and they haven't changed oils in 30 years.

The only thing that has really changed is d-5 kind of went away and was replaced first by HP 1000 and that was too thin...and now HP-1300 the rest are the same basically. They went away from the black grease in the barrel to Tepa...but depending on the watch...that's not a great idea...as a friend who worked at RLX once said...when I questioned him about Tepa..."sometimes the amplitude is TOO FUCKING HIGH!" which was the same issue I had experienced. His remedy was the same as mine...go back to the black grease.

I don't care what you use...they dry out and they lose performance. 10 years...it's gonna be running like shit on the machine..it'll be running and wearing out...but it'll run. The gaskets are the same..and they dry out JUST the same...nothing has changed.

6 years max IF you want to maintain the watch properly.

[R.W.T.]

You're dealing with a 30-70 year old watch..in vintage. You're NOT going to be able to make that into brand new forever. Do you like it? Does the quality and appearance make you nostalgic and happy? Get over it. When it is serviced...does it run well enough? Does it function well? It winds itself and keeps good time on the wrist? Things wear...it's a machine. Does that mean it's beyond use? No...it doesn't really. If that were the case, then EVERY TIME the watch was serviced...you'd replace everything in it...because...there is SOME wear always. It's being too critical after a point imho.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

You're dealing with a 30-70 year old watch..in vintage. You're NOT going to be able to make that into brand new forever. Do you like it? Does the quality and appearance make you nostalgic and happy? Get over it. When it is serviced...does it run well enough? Does it function well? It winds itself and keeps good time on the wrist? Things wear...it's a machine. Does that mean it's beyond use? No...it doesn't really. If that were the case, then EVERY TIME the watch was serviced...you'd replace everything in it...because...there is SOME wear always. It's being too critical after a point imho.

this.
I mean, over the next few decades some of these original 50's and 60's metal parts and lacquered dials are just going to disintegrate.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

...carver crawls out of his 65 Mustang which doesn't have an original part on it and ambles into the forum;;;

I'm so impressed with the traditionalists who insist on using oil from 60 years ago when servicing vintage Rolex; Who needs 10 year service intervals?? Three years is plenty!

What? That's different? I see.

I restored 30 65-66 Mustangs in my time...a few ground up...a few where I sought body panels with matching date stamps...to the original....and other crazed....fanaticism...I can still build one out of parts in the floor with no manuals...I know where every bolt goes and I can probably still wire one without a wiring diagram.
The last one I did...was the last one...
It took about 20 seconds in a rear end collision where I was struck at a dead stop waiting for a left turn, by a 98 Silverado doing 75 mph...who never put on the brakes...to make it gone. It was a 99 point concours car...one of 5776 65 deluxe interior 2+2's...made BEFORE the debut of the Deluxe Interior in April 65 on March 19. To make it rarer...it was a 4BBL 4Speed car. So you can cut that production down to less than 2000 cars....gone in 20 seconds...I'm lucky to be alive...but taught me about minutia...I didn't enjoy the car. You couldn't drive it without worrying about it the entire time.

I had friend here...a mechanic...we both looked at a 66 GT Fastback with deluxe interior...it had had a bad quarter panel replacement and some rust in the back floors...typical..not major...leaking rear glass damp rugs. I went to his gas station one day and he was restoring the interior...I said Bobby...you aren't gonna paint the car and do the body work first. NOPE....I don't see that when I'm driving it...I'm gonna have a great running and driving car...with a nice fresh interior...and the outside...I don't care...then I don't have to worry about door dings and paint chips. :-)

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

I restored 30 65-66 Mustangs in my time...a few ground up...a few where I sought body panels with matching date stamps...to the original....and other crazed....fanaticism...I can still build one out of parts in the floor with no manuals...I know where every bolt goes and I can probably still wire one without a wiring diagram.
The last one I did...was the last one...
It took about 20 seconds in a rear end collision where I was struck at a dead stop waiting for a left turn, by a 98 Silverado doing 75 mph...who never put on the brakes...to make it gone. It was a 99 point concours car...one of 5776 65 deluxe interior 2+2's...made BEFORE the debut of the Deluxe Interior in April 65 on March 19. To make it rarer...it was a 4BBL 4Speed car. So you can cut that production down to less than 2000 cars....gone in 20 seconds...I'm lucky to be alive...but taught me about minutia...I didn't enjoy the car. You couldn't drive it without worrying about it the entire time.

I had friend here...a mechanic...we both looked at a 66 GT Fastback with deluxe interior...it had had a bad quarter panel replacement and some rust in the back floors...typical..not major...leaking rear glass damp rugs. I went to his gas station one day and he was restoring the interior...I said Bobby...you aren't gonna paint the car and do the body work first. NOPE....I don't see that when I'm driving it...I'm gonna have a great running and driving car...with a nice fresh interior...and the outside...I don't care...then I don't have to worry about door dings and paint chips. :-)

hmm, soooo what would you do about getting more hp and torque out of a 73 bronco 302?
total rebuild, swap in an old 351, or a new stroker ?

[harry in montreal]

Haha
So my summer car is a manual 1990 mustang LX convertible 5.0. It has its original paint on the entire car (except the back bumper). It’s faded and kind of dull looking. I wax it and it looks great, probably only to me. I just enjoy the originality, but the thing is scratched up, leaks oil, leaks water. I love it. My Rolexes are similar and I enjoy them. I have them pressure tested but I wear them and abuse them every chance I get.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

this.
I mean, over the next few decades some of these original 50's and 60's metal parts and lacquered dials are just going to disintegrate.

That’s a little extreme. Will they continue to age? Yes...but so does everything. I doubt they will spontaneously combust.


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[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

I restored 30 65-66 Mustangs in my time...a few ground up...a few where I sought body panels with matching date stamps...to the original....and other crazed....fanaticism...I can still build one out of parts in the floor with no manuals...I know where every bolt goes and I can probably still wire one without a wiring diagram.
The last one I did...was the last one...
It took about 20 seconds in a rear end collision where I was struck at a dead stop waiting for a left turn, by a 98 Silverado doing 75 mph...who never put on the brakes...to make it gone. It was a 99 point concours car...one of 5776 65 deluxe interior 2+2's...made BEFORE the debut of the Deluxe Interior in April 65 on March 19. To make it rarer...it was a 4BBL 4Speed car. So you can cut that production down to less than 2000 cars....gone in 20 seconds...I'm lucky to be alive...but taught me about minutia...I didn't enjoy the car. You couldn't drive it without worrying about it the entire time.

I had friend here...a mechanic...we both looked at a 66 GT Fastback with deluxe interior...it had had a bad quarter panel replacement and some rust in the back floors...typical..not major...leaking rear glass damp rugs. I went to his gas station one day and he was restoring the interior...I said Bobby...you aren't gonna paint the car and do the body work first. NOPE....I don't see that when I'm driving it...I'm gonna have a great running and driving car...with a nice fresh interior...and the outside...I don't care...then I don't have to worry about door dings and paint chips. :-)

Yet another chapter in the fascinating life of Tommy Taylor! So glad you survived! Restoring a beautiful 80 year old Rolex may not have the excitement of flying down the street in a freshly rebuilt Mustang 289 convertible but it will not kill you!

So good to see you posting Tommy, give us what time you can!

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by 1watch

That’s a little extreme. Will they continue to age? Yes...but so does everything. I doubt they will spontaneously combust.


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right they won't spontaneously implode, but I bet they'll fall into disrepair eventually... there aren't too many 90 year old daily wearers around now.

[1watch]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

right they won't spontaneously implode, but I bet they'll fall into disrepair eventually... there aren't too many 90 year old daily wearers around now.

I think some level of servicing will keep them functional. I have two from the ‘50’s that I wear without concern that they will remain viable to wear for decades to come. I think there aren’t many 90 year old dailies based on the style and size of those pieces from the turn of pocket to wristwatch era. I don’t doubt they could still be worn and enjoyed though.


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[sutats]

That is the general rule with collectables when they are discontinued from production and support which is a factor for increased maintenance costs and ultimately value. There is no shortage of collectors out there that will have the means or the know how to care for their pieces. Interestingly, Patek Philippe is one company that will retool to manufacture parts for any of their watches.

[1675-David]

It's not rocket science making parts for a mechanical watch movement if your aim is to keep it ticking.

[Verdi]

My watchmaker thinks that soon enough there will be 3rd party parts manufacturers that would be able to make anything you need.
With the all the 3D printing and the demand of cheaper parts, the void should be filled by independents.

I tend to agree. There are already guys making domed plexi glass for old Sub....it does not happen overnight but it does.

Rolex and all brands who are trying to restrict access to parts are gonna loose the control eventually. The only reason why they are doing it is for us to pay the 1k usd service fee at their service centres.
In reality, any decent watchmaker can service a Rolex if given access to parts.....for about 30-40% of official service center pricing.

[68shark]

I find this thread of interest. Commonality of those that like vintage (anything) appreciate the item for what it is and don't require that it look, perform the same as it did when brand new.

Like RWT and others, I'm a car guy. Hence my handle referring to my 1968 Corvette Convertible 327 4 speed. It's far from perfect. A "driver". Car was repainted in the 1980's and looks it. But, I love it. Mechanically, it's strong, puts a smile on my face. A bit stouter than the stock 350HP engine so it hauls out quite nicely for a 52 year old car. I bought it in 1999.

Ironically, I'm often wearing a 1969 era 6694 Oysterdate when driving it. Service replacement hands, dial, datewheel etc. I acquired this around 2015 fully rebuilt....by.....RWT. Originally for a lady business friend who wanted a Rolex. This was the low end, but she didn't like the handwinding. So, I bought it back and acquired (also from RWT) a very nice 1967 era TT 1600 for her. And a business friendship, became a personal friendship and now...we are engaged.

Sorry for the long story, but vintage watches, vintage cars can overlap very nicely. I don't worry about a door chip on the Corvette nor a scuff on the 6694. But both need regular maintenance and the 6694 is just about due for that.

Shout out to Tommy for playing a role in all of this!

[adrew488]

Great read. Thank you to the OP for sharing.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

hmm, soooo what would you do about getting more hp and torque out of a 73 bronco 302?
total rebuild, swap in an old 351, or a new stroker ?

Screw it! 427 side oiler with blower! I'm done with concours.

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by sutats

That is the general rule with collectables when they are discontinued from production and support which is a factor for increased maintenance costs and ultimately value. There is no shortage of collectors out there that will have the means or the know how to care for their pieces. Interestingly, Patek Philippe is one company that will retool to manufacture parts for any of their watches.

Priced Patek service lately?

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

right they won't spontaneously implode, but I bet they'll fall into disrepair eventually... there aren't too many 90 year old daily wearers around now.

You know I started here with Bubblebacks...I met the guy who was the go to guy in the USA for servicing them...He taught me.

I wore a 3133 every single day for 10 years...and if I didn't have TWENTY watches ... I still would and it would run INDEFINITELY with maintenance probably with NO parts.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Screw it! 427 side oiler with blower! I'm done with concours.

[ofelas]

Throw a 4BT into it.

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

hmm, soooo what would you do about getting more hp and torque out of a 73 bronco 302?
total rebuild, swap in an old 351, or a new stroker ?

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by ofelas

Throw a 4BT into it.

I followed a build thread with a similar diesel swap...5 years later the guy is almost finished.