Why is the Explorer II a GMT and I is not?

[amphr1]

What's the rationale for keeping both of these under the same model name if they are completely different watches?

[arcadelt]

Originally Posted by amphora001

What's the rationale for keeping both of these under the same model name if they are completely different watches?

History I guess.

[douglasf13]

The Explorer II was developed as an adventure watch for spelunking, where the "GMT" hand helped determine AM vs. PM when down in a cave, which is why it didn’t have a turning bezel. Rolex eventually allowed the hand to be decoupled from the time for tracking a second time zone, but that wasn’t its original purpose.

[GradyPhilpott]

If an Explorer had a 24-hour hand, it'd be an Explorer II.

If an Explorer II didn't have a 24-hour hand, it'd be an Explorer.

There are plenty of source online to read up on the history of the Rolex references.

This site has a lot of information.

https://www.rolexmagazine.com/

So does the official Rolex site.

https://www.rolex.com/

[MJ EXPLORER]

The Explorer was built with ultimate legibility in mind. It's a pretty basic - but absolutely classic - watch. The Explorer II was made for exploring as well, but it's bigger and sportier.

I see your point about them being different enough to not be in the same model line, but they'll never decouple them now. Too much shared history.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by amphora001

What's the rationale for keeping both of these under the same model name if they are completely different watches?

GMT is the name of the watch, not the function. It is a dual-time watch.

The GMT has always been a dual-time watch, but the first ones used the rotating bezel position to "see" the second time using the 24 hour hand. For a couple of decades you could buy either the GMT, or the GMT II (jump feature) dual-time watches as both were available side-by-side,

The Explorer II is also a dual-time watch, but only because of the fairly recent use of the jump-hour movements. It was not originally dual-time, so you could buy the Explorer, or the Explorer II (24 hr version).

The Explorer II began as a single time watch with a 24 hour hand, apparently so that you could know if it was day or night while spelunking.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by amphora001

What's the rationale for keeping both of these under the same model name if they are completely different watches?

Well the first Explorer type watch was the 6350 models big bubbleback with the A296 auto movement from early 1950s.Now Rolex had watches like this with the mixed Roman and Arabic dial in the 1940's.But expeditions like the Mount Everest ones that's what made the Explorer more popular with clever marketing by Hans of Rolex. Later the 6150 came along slightly bigger by 2mm and lasted until late 1959.After it was replaced by the 6610 with the new Cal 1030 auto movement, but there were variations like the Airking Explorer 5500,and what they call the dress Explorers. And there were gold or SS dial signed Explorer but mainly for Canadian market and UK. Today the Explorer is one of Rolex longest production watches with a lot of history.

Around 1963 the Explorer changed again with one of the finest IMO movements Rolex has ever made like the cal 1560.And model was renamed the 1016 now this is Rolex longest production model. It ran from 1963 to 1989 the later models had the cal 1570 movement. Now this Cal 1570 was just a 1560 that now hacks stops second hand when you pull crown out.But something very strange happened late 1989 the Explorer disappeared from the Rolex catalogues. But 6 months later it was back but now called the 14270,with a new case movement dial and Sapphire crystal. But the only thing it carried on from the 1016 was the watch hands and name. Now fitted with the new fast beat cal 3000,and the new up to date version with the model 114270

IMHO it was because of the Jackie Chan movies where he wears a Explorer in the movie. And the Japanese market went crazy for Explorers, very much like Daytona fever today hype sells watches. And the Explorer at this time was very hard to get world wide. And was changing hands for as much as double retail price and a bit more, much like the Daytona today. Now with these new modifications it brought the Explorer in line with all the other Rolex models. And because the real cosmetics of the new watch was so much changed from that of the old one, like the 1016.Now the price in the vintage collectors market is going up and IMHO if you can get hold of a good 1016,IMO will only go up in value. A good collectors watch for the future, the Explorer is as much as a Rolex icon IMHO as the Sub and is a big part in Rolex history, but Rolex history today is sadly lacking by many.

[Viking]

Originally Posted by padi56

IMHO it was because of the Jackie Chan movies where he wears a Explorer in the movie. And the Japanese market went crazy for Explorers, very much like Daytona fever today hype sells watches.

Very interesting, I had not heard that before. Thanks for the history lesson Professor Padi!

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Tools

The Explorer II began as a single time watch with a 24 hour hand, apparently so that you could know if it was day or night while spelunking.

Wow, never knew that! Assuming it was the same movement as the original GMT, but without the 12hr hand, and the 12hr hand was added when the GMT II came out w/the jumping hour hand?

[dannyp]

I think what's confusing is that both the Explorer and GMT have "original" and "II" versions, but those designations mean entirely different things.

With the Explorer, it was an entirely different model, but with a similar theme. With the GMT, it was an evolution and eventually led to the obsolescence of the original.

The Explorer I/II is far more similar to the YM I/II in this regard.

[amphr1]

Originally Posted by padi56

IMHO it was because of the Jackie Chan movies where he wears a Explorer in the movie.

I like Jackie Chan, not a huge fan, but I can't say I recall what watch he was wearing and I'm pretty sure I've seen 80% of his movies. But that's very interesting.

[Pinchy]

Explorer II - Made for caving/spelunking - The GMT hand is intended or AM/PM indication. Just so happens to have a jump hour movement which can be used for second tz tracking.
Explorer - Made for climbing - you can... at least in the himalayas, tell if its night or day without the GMT hand.

[samuel019]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well the first Explorer type watch was the 6350 models big bubbleback with the A296 auto movement from early 1950s.Now Rolex had watches like this with the mixed Roman and Arabic dial in the 1940's.But expeditions like the Mount Everest ones that's what made the Explorer more popular with clever marketing by Hans of Rolex. Later the 6150 came along slightly bigger by 2mm and lasted until late 1959.After it was replaced by the 6610 with the new Cal 1030 auto movement, but there were variations like the Airking Explorer 5500,and what they call the dress Explorers. And there were gold or SS dial signed Explorer but mainly for Canadian market and UK. Today the Explorer is one of Rolex longest production watches with a lot of history.

Around 1963 the Explorer changed again with one of the finest IMO movements Rolex has ever made like the cal 1560.And model was renamed the 1016 now this is Rolex longest production model. It ran from 1963 to 1989 the later models had the cal 1570 movement. Now this Cal 1570 was just a 1560 that now hacks stops second hand when you pull crown out.But something very strange happened late 1989 the Explorer disappeared from the Rolex catalogues. But 6 months later it was back but now called the 14270,with a new case movement dial and Sapphire crystal. But the only thing it carried on from the 1016 was the watch hands and name. Now fitted with the new fast beat cal 3000,and the new up to date version with the model 114270

IMHO it was because of the Jackie Chan movies where he wears a Explorer in the movie. And the Japanese market went crazy for Explorers, very much like Daytona fever today hype sells watches. And the Explorer at this time was very hard to get world wide. And was changing hands for as much as double retail price and a bit more, much like the Daytona today. Now with these new modifications it brought the Explorer in line with all the other Rolex models. And because the real cosmetics of the new watch was so much changed from that of the old one, like the 1016.Now the price in the vintage collectors market is going up and IMHO if you can get hold of a good 1016,IMO will only go up in value. A good collectors watch for the future, the Explorer is as much as a Rolex icon IMHO as the Sub and is a big part in Rolex history, but Rolex history today is sadly lacking by many.

Wow!! Padi as always that was brilliant. Your wealth of true Rolex knowledge is second to none here on TRF IMO.

I have just one question though. If I find a clean 1016 is it safe to get it wet??

I'm kidding of course.

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