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4 September 2021, 02:16 AM | #1 |
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Why no gold crown patina?
I’ve noticed that even on heavily patinated gold references, usually the crown is bright. Below are just two examples, a recent/current listing from Adam at Menta, and the fairly famous “Dark Star.” (The former is listed as NOS, the latter was reportedly stored for many years.) It seems unlikely that these crowns have been replaced, or touched/wound often enough to wear off patina, though I guess either is possible.
Does Rolex use a different alloy for the crowns than the cases? Is there another explanation? . . |
4 September 2021, 08:15 AM | #2 |
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I just got a ‘58 OP. Bezel is a bit discolored while the crown looks brand new…. I was told it’s all original, didn’t believe it at first but now maybe I do!
I have no guesses for the reason though :/ |
4 September 2021, 08:26 AM | #3 |
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Are these crowns gold, or gold-capped? Could be a higher gold content than those particular cases.
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4 September 2021, 10:30 AM | #4 |
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Possibly because the watches are wound occasionally and time setting is performed that means any patina is simply wiped off by the skin
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4 September 2021, 10:31 AM | #5 |
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5 September 2021, 03:35 AM | #6 |
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Some gold jewelry forms patina on the surfaces that are not in contact with skin. I vote for the winding crown being a part that gets touched a lot and "skin polished" and don't consider it suspicious. Having said that, the gold crown on my 6075 is original and is a slightly different color than the case, which has no patina. Not true of my 1013, also no patina. Very pronounced on my 18k 31mm bubblebacks, seems to be a completely different alloy BUT no way of knowing if those crowns were changed out on the way to my hands.
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5 September 2021, 04:00 AM | #7 |
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5 September 2021, 09:46 AM | #8 | |
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Gold cap in the context of watches usually means gold plated which they are not. Gold capped as in a shell over is correct as the internal structure is steel because gold threads would not be strong enough to withstand repeated screwing and unscrewing. |
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5 September 2021, 01:46 PM | #9 |
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No. I would have to say that this absolutely does not conform to my experience with watches, and I don't think that people who are familiar with watches use the word "capped" to refer to "plated". Definitely not. Watch collectors are quite familiar with gold-capped cases, and know that they are completely different than gold-plated or gold-filled. They are manufactured in a totally different way, the gold layer is dramatically thicker (by an order of magnitude or more), the base metal is completely different, etc. Not even close to the same thing. I think you can assume that we all know what gold-capped means.
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5 September 2021, 01:53 PM | #10 | |
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Actually on reflection I’d have to agree. To clarify on my part I meant that the crown has a layer of gold on it that’s substantially thicker than a simple electro deposition type of gold plating that you’d find on cheap jewellery, which is only a few microns in thickness. It still might be deposited onto the steel core by electro plating however rather than by a burnishing technique. |
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5 September 2021, 09:53 PM | #11 |
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The crown would patina just like the entire watch. If it’s not that’s a red flag to me. Probably because the crown has been replaced. Hopefully, not an aftermarket replacement or newer Rolex model which are quite common in very old vintage pieces. In a routine service Rolex will almost always replace the crown with the gaskets in my experience .
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5 September 2021, 09:55 PM | #12 |
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5 September 2021, 09:57 PM | #13 |
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Actually handling the watch would create more patina. The sweat and oils from hand winding and setting would do that. It would not preserve it.
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5 September 2021, 10:05 PM | #14 |
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6 September 2021, 01:21 AM | #15 |
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6 September 2021, 01:23 AM | #16 | |
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Quote:
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6 September 2021, 01:26 AM | #17 |
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6 September 2021, 01:32 AM | #18 | |
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Quote:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=108625 |
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6 September 2021, 07:32 AM | #19 | |
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6 September 2021, 07:34 AM | #20 |
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I said that a non patina crown that did not match the patina rest of the watch would be a red flag in that it may not be original to the watch. It should patina similarly to the rest of the steel or precious metal on the watch. If it does not then, in my opinion, it’s a flag to question its originality and/ or authenticity. Many vintage pieces have had their hands and crowns replaced over time. That’s my point. That’s my educated guess of course because I have not examined the piece.
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6 September 2021, 07:40 AM | #21 |
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[QUOTE=Hub6152;11684342]Not necessarily - the oils from the hands could actually provide an oxygen barrier that prevents oxidation.
It’s quite the opposite actually. |
6 September 2021, 07:59 AM | #22 | |
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Hopefully the rest of the forum gets it.
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6 September 2021, 08:01 AM | #23 | |
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It’s important to understand the Rolex process here. There have been plenty of threads that explain this much better than me. Not that it matters, but I just confirmed this with my Rolex watchmaker who has been in the business for over thirty years. Not here to have an argument. |
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6 September 2021, 10:06 AM | #24 | |
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[QUOTE=AJMarcus;11685340]
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Not sure if you edited your reply as the email notice says “Sorry but I disagree. If that theory were true than bronze would not tarnish over time. All metals break down over time due to the environment and handling” The one thing missing is that gold is a noble metal unlike bronze and does not break down over time. Another possibility is that the alloy constituents differ from the case to the crown so that the amount of non noble metal is more in the case material than the crown. |
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6 September 2021, 11:51 AM | #25 | |
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6 September 2021, 11:55 AM | #26 | |
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Perhaps you did not say they were gold plated but others did in this thread. Have you not read this entire thread? That’s who I was responding to and then you challenged me unfairly. You stepped in and misconstrued what I said. Or perhaps failed to grasp my meaning. In any case, I’ve admitted to nothing I did not already know. Too much splitting of hairs, and posturing by a few takes away from the enjoyment of our hobby |
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6 September 2021, 12:01 PM | #27 | |
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What in the world are you talking about. I absolutely said that the crowns are gold-capped, because they are. Just as you said, gold over stainless, which is the definition of gold-capped. I'm starting to feel like I'm having a conversation with someone who is either drunk or incapable of rational thought, so I'm not sure there's any point in continuing.
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6 September 2021, 12:09 PM | #28 | |
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Now I think I’ll order myself another round at the bar. |
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6 September 2021, 12:12 PM | #29 |
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OP, Not sure if any of that was helpful. Entertaining perhaps.
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