Tudor Sub ref. 7928 - what's been done here

[shekshek]

Hi all,

Brief introduction: I have been on RF for about four years but am not a frequent visitor. I own several Rolexes, including two vintage GMT 1675s and a modern ceramic bezel Sub (116610LN).

Also in my possession is a Tudor Sub 7928 from 1963, bought from a somewhat dodgy auction site a few years back. I fell for the gilt dial and the lume, not realizing it was a relume. I've since concluded both hands and dial were relumed, and most likely the pip as well. A UV light indicates no florescence, so I at least give credit to the relumer for not trying too hard to put one over on anyone.

I welcome any other thoughts as to what else might have been done to pretty this one up for its sale. Is it a redial? The lettering looks very clean to me. What about the bezel? Anything else I should be aware of?

I paid a price well below market for an original condition 1963 7928 so I just consider this all a lesson learned. Thanks much in advance for your guidance.

[TuRo]

Hi - As you suspected the dial is a repaint (the = sign between m and 6 the m is the quick tell - too close to them, many other factors too). Merc dissections on circle on HR hand looks bit thin/odd too A 1963 is nearly always a Pointed Crown Guard model so perhaps you can take photo of both lug engravings please and I'll advise further - case back and fleurier 290 calibre and crown look ok first glance.

[lupus66]

or dials are always messy w/ these full gilt tudors

[harry in montreal]

I agree above. The dial and hands are repro. The movement is the good nickel plate 390. Post a pic of the case. The crown is good. I’m not sure about the bezel and insert. It should B a long five insert. I see some good parts added to some Chinese parts

[alwayshere]

agree with others. The dial and hands are aftermarket.

Hope you didn't pay too much for it.

[shekshek]

Thanks all for your honest assessments. Here's some pics of the lug engravings. The serial number appears to be 434780, which I understand would date the case to '64-'65.
It was cheap for a vintage Tudor sub from this period, which should have been a big tell. All I can say is I was a newbie to the world of vintage then, and didn't know enough to do due diligence before breaking out my wallet. You live and learn.

[shekshek]

Originally Posted by harry in montreal

I agree above. The dial and hands are repro. The movement is the good nickel plate 390. Post a pic of the case. The crown is good. I’m not sure about the bezel and insert. It should B a long five insert. I see some good parts added to some Chinese parts

Thanks -- so do you think the dial is all repro, as opposed to repainted original dial? And same for hands? Would love to get any insight as to the markers that should tip one off.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by shekshek

Thanks -- so do you think the dial is all repro, as opposed to repainted original dial? And same for hands? Would love to get any insight as to the markers that should tip one off.

You can memorize specific features, but that's really not so helpful, since they are always changing. But if you want to know them, ask an expert by PM, not in public. A better idea is to put in the time to look at at least one hundred legit examples of the reference you are interested in. You will train your eye, and the overall differences should become apparent. The hands are particularly obvious in this case, the quality is terrible.

[shekshek]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Hope you didn't pay too much for it.

I try to be philosophical about these things. Overall, I've been fortunate enough to buy a few great watches at good or even great prices. Alas, this was not one of them.

[TuRo]

Ok good news the engravings are fine and it's correct shape for 64/65 ! Mid-case and c/back is worth circa £3k and 390 calibre about £2k so that should be comforting (is the CB stamped 63 or 65 difficult to see). It's probably a repaint on original dial but to be honest it's worthless either way (it does look nice though granted). I'd just wear it as it is knowing the facts or search out a silver writing chapter ring t swiss t dial or silver writing underline chapter ring Swiss dial and period silver handset both dials are ok. Budget £4-5 k for the job - be a circa £10-12 k watch then! When you find one post it up and Harry, Ross, me or one of the other 7928 can chime in.
Ps whenever I buy something I go to say C24/HQ Milton sold watches look at model filter by year and then forensically look at all the best ones from dealers I trust against watch buying. With a 7928 I've done it so many times it's pretty much in my head but it takes decades to get there. Little tip though as well as looking at shape of writing, look at the spacings between writings - fakers can't get it right everywhere on dial.
Good luck on your watch you got (partly) lucky on I'd say, and keep us posted.

[shekshek]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

Ok good news the engravings are fine and it's correct shape for 64/65 ! Mid-case and c/back is worth circa £3k and 390 calibre about £2k so that should be comforting (is the CB stamped 63 or 65 difficult to see). ...
Good luck on your watch you got (partly) lucky on I'd say, and keep us posted.

Thanks very much -- this is very good news as at least the value of the parts that are legit amount to more or less what I paid, maybe a tad more.
You absolutely anticipated my next question which was around the question of replacing the dial and hands with legit originals. So while my initial inclination was to just keep it and wear it as is, I think now it makes a bit more sense to turn this into a project watch.
I will keep you all posted and thanks very much for offering to spotcheck replacement parts.

[shekshek]

Originally Posted by pauldavidthorpe

Ps whenever I buy something I go to say C24/HQ Milton sold watches look at model filter by year and then forensically look at all the best ones from dealers I trust against watch buying. ... Little tip though as well as looking at shape of writing, look at the spacings between writings - fakers can't get it right everywhere on dial.

Very good advice, thank you.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by shekshek

Very good advice, thank you.

Pleasure. This is the dial and handset you should seek out

T swiss T silver writing - forget the Swiss underline it's too early for your case

https://hqmilton.com/products/1964-t...er-ring-dial-1

[shekshek]

Hi all,

Many thanks to all who provided feedback on my 7928 earlier this year. In my search to find a proper dial and hands, I have come across the set here. I would greatly appreciate any opinions as to whether they are likely correct and authentic. Is the underline beneath "self-winding" correct for a dial from 64 (as it is advertised to be)?

Thanks very much in advance. If anyone here is the seller, no offense is intended.

[TuRo]

Bit of History - Circa '62 Rolex and Tudor started to denote (as a safety precaution for staff working on dials) reduced Radium content with its so-called exclamation dials.

Circa 63 they reduced it further with an underline denomination.

ALL Exclamation and Underline dials I have seen are radium 'swiss' dials !

Circa 64 dials used Tritium so T Swiss T, BUT in theory there should be no UNDERLINE T Swiss T dials..... as staff no longer needed notification when lower risk tritium was introduced.

This dial was initially in my opinion, likely to be a Repaint/Replica/Not Correct, HOWEVER, I see this one in America that is stated as a 64 and has an Underline AND T Swiss T !! - I'd be interested to hear what John/Linesiders and other 7928 meisters think, as such.

Tudor Submariner
£21,805
https://chrono24.app/tudor/tudor-sub...GB&SETCURR=GBP

[shekshek]

Thank you for the history lesson, @TuRo. Sounds like my concern about the underline may be justified.

[Singhalager]

Look like perfectly good 7928 to me