Datejust Sigma dial from 1962? Please, help

[Darayavaush]

Hello to everyone.

I just purchased a 1603 Datejust. It was announced as 1968 sigma dial (as far as I know that can be correct)

But searching the serial number (158****) on a database… it says 1962!
Ah, the movement hacks too.
I miss something? Can be a re-dial or re-cased watch?

I must admit that in Rolex vintage matters I’m a noob, but the watch looked ok, good, reliable, decent price… (Chr24). Perhaps I’m paying noob tax?

[CTech]

All serial number charts are inaccurate to some extent and some are wrong to an alarming degree.

There are several threads on the forum about which ones are most accurate and the ones I use most state that a 1.5 million serial number would be from around 1967 to 1968.

However, that is too early for a sigma dial to be the original fitting as they were not introduced until 1970 at the earliest.

It is likely that this watch has had a redial, quite common with Datejusts as people wanted a different color, different hour markers, etc.

Other clues to the manufacturing date of the watch might be a date inside the case back and possibly on one of the bracelet clasp blades.

[Yzord]

Nice looking DJ though for its age

[Darayavaush]

Thank you very much, sirs. As you say, CTech, the serial numbers are confusing. For example, looking at the chart at Bob’s Watches it says 1967… it’s clear that 1962 is no no.
When I researched, I found that there were early sigma dials from the late 60’s (67-69) and I saw examples on forums and the web.
Clasp is 6251h. I hope the clasp is original… because one of the punched Rolex logos is not very crisp and I have my doubts…

And another question, for a 1967-68 1570 caliber it’s ok to have hacking?
Just now I haven’t the tool, but on Friday I will open the caseback and take a look.

Than you and kind regards

[CTech]

There is a lot of inaccurate information about sigma dials and many claims of late-1960s sigma dials that are unproven.

There are two well written and researched articles that place the first use of the sigma symbol on a dial in 1970:

https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-bl...efinition.html

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/what-is-a-sigma-dial

and these are probably reliable. Until proven otherwise it is safe to say that no sigma dials were put on Rolex watches for commercial sale prior to 1970.

[Old Expat Beast]

My DJ is stamped 154xxxx with a 1966 caseback stamp and Oct 1968 papers. (Dial is T SWISS T).

[Darayavaush]

Originally Posted by CTech

There is a lot of inaccurate information about sigma dials and many claims of late-1960s sigma dials that are unproven.

There are two well written and researched articles that place the first use of the sigma symbol on a dial in 1970:


and these are probably reliable. Until proven otherwise it is safe to say that no sigma dials were put on Rolex watches for commercial sale prior to 1970.

Thanks, very helpful and informative. I already knew Bob’s article, but Mr. Westphalen’s one is really interesant.
So, it can be a 70’s re-dial. Af far as all is ok and that is a Rolex service dial, it’s not such an issue for me, considering that the dial is well preserved and the wach is for daily enjoyment.

[Darayavaush]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

My DJ is stamped 154xxxx with a 1966 caseback stamp and Oct 1968 papers. (Dial is T SWISS T).

Thank you. That makes me more peace-minded with my serial number concern.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Darayavaush

And another question, for a 1967-68 1570 caliber it’s ok to have hacking?

IMO, that is too early for hacking. I have been accumulating some data, and the transition appears to be between 2.5M and 2.9M.

[Darayavaush]

Originally Posted by Dan S

IMO, that is too early for hacking. I have been accumulating some data, and the transition appears to be between 2.5M and 2.9M.

Yes, that have I read. It’s possible that Rolex cased a ~1970 sigma dial-hacking movement in a 1967-8 stock case? Are that things habitual in Rolexes of that time?
(For example the example posted above, 1966 caseback, 1968 papers)

[Singhalager]

Too early for hacking for sure. I get blister from my early datejust changing date manually. Hands are replacement but common

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Darayavaush

Yes, that have I read. It’s possible that Rolex cased a ~1970 sigma dial-hacking movement in a 1967-8 stock case? Are that things habitual in Rolexes of that time?
(For example the example posted above, 1966 caseback, 1968 papers)

In my opinion, it's very unlikely. You are asking if a hacking movement could be original to a 1.58M serial case when hacking movements are not generally seen before 2.5M. That's a massive gap. I guess anything is possible, but I don't think that one collector in 100 would believe it. The papers can be from later because they were dated when the watch was sold, not when it was manufactured. Similarly, bracelets were often added at the time of purchase.

[Darayavaush]

Thanks for your comments.
Here is the movement

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Darayavaush

. . .

And another question, for a 1967-68 1570 caliber it’s ok to have hacking?
Just now I haven’t the tool, but on Friday I will open the caseback and take a look.

Than you and kind regards

This is the era of date-stamped case backs, so if the case back is original, you will not have to guess. You don't show it in your pictures, but there should be a date stamp inside that back.

[Darayavaush]

Originally Posted by Tools

This is the era of date-stamped case backs, so if the case back is original, you will not have to guess. You don't show it in your pictures, but there should be a date stamp inside that back.

Indeed; as I opened the watch, I found a “I.67” and some hand engraved watchmaker’s marks. So, first quarter 1967, consequent with the serial number.