Rolex 5512 Authentication

[sgwatchobsession]

Hi guys, new to the forum here, I recently got the chance to purchase a 5512 at a pretty good price online and was wondering if it all checks out. Its from a private seller who says the bezel may have been replaced in the past. Any help with this would be much appreciated!

[TuRo]

Welcome sir.... Can you enlighten us with some photos of dial, bezel and insert, mid-case, inner caseback, engravings between lugs, and bracelet/engravings and the good burghers here can give you a view or two.

[sgwatchobsession]

Hey there, sorry I didn't realize the Imgur link didn't attach xD. Thanks for the quick response!
https://imgur.com/a/AUQz9nM

[Lol-x]

Looks good nice creamy patina on the hour markers & hands.

[Dan S]

Wouldn't the inside case-back have a date stamp for a meters-first dial? Case-back may be a later replacement.

Lug-holes are heavily cratered. No bracelet.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by sgwatchobsession

Hey there, sorry I didn't realize the Imgur link didn't attach xD. Thanks for the quick response!
https://imgur.com/a/AUQz9nM

The dial and hands look great. For around $700 you can get the case restored to factory specs and you'll have a real beauty of a watch.

[sgwatchobsession]

Thanks for the responses all! I was just a little concerned on this piece too as he’s priced it well under market (10kUsd) and so got me a bit suspicious..

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by sgwatchobsession

Thanks for the responses all! I was just a little concerned on this piece too as he’s priced it well under market (10kUsd) and so got me a bit suspicious..

..

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by sgwatchobsession

Thanks for the responses all! I was just a little concerned on this piece too as he’s priced it well under market (10kUsd) and so got me a bit suspicious..

No engravings pics?

[TuRo]

As you likely aware £8k is about half a 5512 Singer 5 ticks MTR first mkt price.....so tread carefully sir, as swaini says engravings both ends and case back inner recommended before committing!

[TuRo]

Btw there are 2 different 5512 MTRS first from your era : yours is the so called non-neat font/floating/grey-blue bottom 2 lines of text version.

This was a 5513 dial with a thinly applied coating of text (hence it looks blue/grey) for bottom two lines with a gap between the first 2 and second two lines and canted/leaning 6s in the depth rating.

Rolex Submariner (No Date)
£20,260
https://chrono24.app/rolex/rolex-vin...GB&SETCURR=GBP

Check the dial spacings very carefully to ensure it's ok

The other type is the NeatFont type that has upright open 6s and the four lines of text roughly equally spaced and not detached like this :

Rolex Submariner (No Date)
£20,013
https://chrono24.app/rolex/-vintage-...GB&SETCURR=GBP

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by TuRo

As you likely aware £8k is about half a 5512 Singer 5 ticks MTR first mkt price.....so tread carefully sir, as swaini says engravings both ends and case back inner recommended before committing!

The above posted photos are showing a replacement of the case back imo...
I would not risk anything on this watch before seeing the case SN...

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Wouldn't the inside case-back have a date stamp for a meters-first dial? Case-back may be a later replacement.

Lug-holes are heavily cratered. No bracelet.

Yup, and from what I can see in one photo, the crown guards are polished down to near points. Depends how picky you are about the case, but it's not a good one.

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

For around $700 you can get the case restored to factory specs and you'll have a real beauty of a watch.

Unless you pay for some serious laser welding, this case cannot be restored to factory specs, and even then you'd have an unoriginal, laser-welded case, which is not that appealing to many collectors.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yup, and from what I can see in one photo, the crown guards are polished down to near points. Depends how picky you are about the case, but it's not a good one.



Unless you pay for some serious laser welding, this case cannot be restored to factory specs, and even then you'd have an unoriginal, laser-welded case, which is not that appealing to many collectors.

You might be surprised at the amount of restoration that can be done for a very reasonable price these days.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

You might be surprised at the amount of restoration that can be done for a very reasonable price these days.

Yes agree - it needs to be (mainly) original, i.m.h.o that's the key.... not a bit/lot of case wear...£8k if orig.is a true steal !!

The caseback is likely service as stated, as would have been date stamped up to circa 73/74 unless it's a later case with an earlier dial (but that would be unlikely as a Singer MTR first floating dial is worth £5000/6000 alone, and would be very odd to fit it to a earlier case ...we'll know when serial no/engraving forthcoming of course.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

You might be surprised at the amount of restoration that can be done for a very reasonable price these days.

Yes, of course. But it's still a restoration. Many people wouldn't want that, the same way they wouldn't want a refinished dial.

[mattg6]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, of course. But it's still a restoration. Many people wouldn't want that, the same way they wouldn't want a refinished dial.

Does it look or feel substantially different?

I of course agree on the logic that I wouldn’t want anything refinished. But I’m curious if someone could tell by holding or looking

[sgwatchobsession]

Thanks all once again for the great tips. Really appreciate the help and love learning more about each reference. Heres the pics of the serial numbers:

https://imgur.com/a/niaIqn0

[TuRo]

Thanks OP.

Picture is very poor (better ones would be great if possible) but it looks like it is a circa 1966 +/- 1 yr, serial number which is correct for an early white 5512 Singer /floating blue-grey. The caseback and insert is service as stated.

I don't really get into the weeds on polishing, as tbh on the sort of stuff I like eg 50/60s Exp, GMTs, Milgauss, Pre-Daytona, Turnograph, JCK's and v early DJs and 53-69 Subs... I frankly 'expect' case wear, and t.b.h. wouldn't have been able to source anything of that type, if I'd expected there to be next to no case wear!

Funnily enough, I was watching a VHS of a watch event in Grosvenor Hotel London in Sept 1980 (three years after I bought my first Monte Carlo Tudor) that I and a pal attended last night; and in 35 minutes of chat of many esteemed collectors talking watches (not me, I was a fluffy and somewhat wet-behind-the-ears lad there to learn), and there was hardly any talk about case polishing/condition - all the talk was of dials, dials and more dials.

Decrying any case polishing is a phenomenon that has crept in since about the late 90s and I believe fuelled by collectors coming from buying fresh new and nearly new and gravitating toward older pieces, and wanting to keep everything in keeping. This coincides with the rise of the 'investment' mentality that frankly wasn't there in the 80s on steel professional pieces....I recall loosing money on a gilt 5508 between 1983-1987 - when I came to sell it !!!

And to answer the previous post the work by SHWR and some others is frankly unnoticeable even down to nap (the main giveaway can be the rest of the watch isn't as fresh!),. Btw I'd rather have an honest orig. well worn piece with some history rather than a Botox piece so I have never gone that route.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by mattg6

Does it look or feel substantially different?

I of course agree on the logic that I wouldn’t want anything refinished. But I’m curious if someone could tell by holding or looking

Holding or looking, not a chance...

X-ray testing is the best method for detecting laser welding in a watch case. An X-ray can reveal the internal structure of the steel and show any signs of welding, such as small gaps or seams.
However, this method may not be practical for everyday use, as it requires specialized equipment and expertise.

[harry in montreal]

I have my doubts about that insert. It’s later

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, of course. But it's still a restoration. Many people wouldn't want that, the same way they wouldn't want a refinished dial.

you must be an extremely experimented expert with very serious lab material to tell with 100% physical proof that a case has been laser refinished...

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by mattg6

Does it look or feel substantially different?

But I’m curious if someone could tell by holding or looking

NO.

[TuRo]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

NO.

Indeed-And on 4 x 316L cases, as part of academic studies I got a them X-rayed, and you could not see the work.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Arnozerosix

you must be an extremely experimented expert with very serious lab material to tell with 100% physical proof that a case has been laser refinished...

So, in theory, are you saying it’s OK to refinish, redo or otherwise change the originality of a vintage Rolex as long as nobody can tell?

[Arnozerosix]

Originally Posted by swish77

So, in theory, are you saying it’s OK to refinish, redo or otherwise change the originality of a vintage Rolex as long as nobody can tell?

Nope, these are not my words Swish77 ... I just said, from a technical point of view, if it is done properly, nobody can tell the difference on old cases without an advanced equipped lab...
Then each his own opinion and preference...

If you want to get my own opinion, the above attached is one of my watches and personally speaking I prefer a watch with a nicely restored case than a 60 YO watch which was abused and shows it...