Orchi believes there're only 2 WG Gloss Dial variants Ref 16760 GMT II aka "Fat Lady"

[Orchi]

Err...to all TRF GMT Buddies...please spare Orchi
a favour to post in here also...your collection of the super sexy...
Ref 16760 GMT Master II...a.k.a. the "Fat Lady"...
originally coined by a Germany collector n fellow VRF member...
Buddy GeorgB...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...ge/1223309257/

It is the most practical GMT Master watches ever made by Rolex...
in a relatively short period of time between 1983 until 1988.
in Orchi's own novice opinion...

The 1st Generation GMT Master II - Ref 16760 GMT II...
has a NO "DATE" plot after "OYSTER PERPETUAL"...
on its WG Glossy Dial variant...
with Case series of about 8.3 to 8.4 million Case Series...
which is believed to have been produced very briefly in 1983/84 or so only...

The latter variant of Ref 16760 GMT Master II WG Gloss Dial...
featured a "DATE" plot behind "OYSTER PERPETUAL" ie "OYSTER PERPETUAL DATE"...
on a separate Glossy Dial variant...
which is more commonly found from 1984 or 1985...
until 1988 "R" Series cases or so...

Best regards
Orchi.

Here are pictures of Orchi's 8,400,xxx series 16760 GMT II "Fat Lady"...
Tall Coronet with longer crown arches...n prominent round "o" crown base...
Having NO "DATE" plot on the 1st Generation Dial variant...
NOTE: "SCOC" has Serif fonts...(lets call this MK.1)










Here are pictures of Orchi's 9,466,xxx series 16760 GMT II "Fat Lady"...
Short n broader Coronet with shorter crown arches...
n narrower round "o" crown base...
Having "DATE" plot on the latter Dial variant...
NOTE: "SCOC" has No Serif fonts...(lets call this MK.2)













Err buddies...however...
there is the critical issues clouding this is MK.2 WG Gloss Dial for 16760...with Orchi's 9,466,xxx series case...







Here's one from the VRF Dial Archive(1st Archive entry)...
with perhaps a late 8 million series case...
which looks to be exactly the same to the one posted by Orchi earlier...
on(9.466 case) MK.2 Dial...




This other example highlighted in here...could be MK. 3?(Pic courtesy of VRF Dial Archive)...
from later 9.6 million series case...but NOT quite the same with the earlier MK.2 Dial...
due to the "SCOC" fonts having seen to have tidy Serif fonts...
i.e. the little strokes of pen at the end of each font writing...
which probably extend to the end of Ref 16760 GMT Master II production...
of "R" series 19760 GMT II...?




Same Coronet style...but with tidy Serif "SCOC" fonts...
n same same looks with this one from the VRF Dial Archive also...
posted by Buddy U5512...




So perhaps...there could be 3 WG Gloss Dials...
for 16760 GMT Master II...?

Nonetheless...it MAY BE possible that the "MK.3?" Dial on later Case Series
of Ref 16760...could be the SAME as the ones found on EARLY WG Gloss Dial
of its later successor...the Ref 16710 GMT Master II...
with Tritium markers "SWISS-T<25" at 6 o'clock...too.

Hence it may NOT be as simple...but it could be more complicated...
as the Early Rolex WG Gloss Dials of those era...has strong
tendency to crack up or crazed...
so MANY Dials on such watches are turned in to RSC for later replacements...
in order to fix the problems.

In doing so...
to those Ref 16760 that are turned into RSC by around 1988 or thereafter...
chances are...the Replacement Dials could be similar to the ones which
were available n interchangeable with the Ref 16710 Tritium Dials...also.

Here are some examples of the Early WG Gloss Dial variant...
for the later successor REF 16710 GMT Master II...
with Tritium markers..."SWISS-T<25" at 6 o'clock.


These Pictures are excerpt from eBay...of Ref 16710 GMT Master II watches...
with Tritium Dials...







Is there any similarities to the possible MK.3 Dial of 16760...?
Hahahaaa...IF so...there maybe more complication ahead...

NOTE:

Novice collectors alike...16760/16710 GMT II Gloss Tritium Dials...
are Interchangeable...
So please be informed...

Err...Orchi learns also...

1. The Most sought after Dial of 16760 has NO "DATE" plot..MK.1.
2. Early 8 mil series of 8,3xx,xxx to 8,40x,xxx had NO "DATE" plot...
3. "GMT Master II" Dials of 16760 n 16710 are interchangeable...
4. These Early Gloss WG surround Tritium Dials are prone to crazing n cracking...
5. IF watch has been serviced before by RSC...
chances are the crazed Dials would have been replaced...by RSC.
6. It could be possible...
that valuable NO "DATE" Dials may have been swapped out by greedy parties...
with replacement "DATE" plot Dial...n sold to unsuspecting Novice collectors..
7. A fine uncertain line separates between genuine 16760 MK.2 Dial...
with those Glossy Tritium Dials from Ref 16710 GMT Master II(or MK.3)...
& the Service Replacement ones by RSC...
which has close similarities with its predecessor MK.2 Dial...

Until further evidence points to the contrary of the above can be obtained...
at later stage...the above assumption is purely based on Orchi's novice experience.

IF any TRF buddies happen to have the Early 16710 GMT Master II watches...
with Case Series possibly from the early "R" Series to 1998 "U" Series...
having WG Gloss Tritium Dials...
please do post the closeup pictures of the 16710 GMT II Tritium Dials with...
"SWISS-T<25" at 6 o'clock ...in here for comparison purpose.

Thanks for watching...

Best regards
Orchi.

[mike]

Wonderful research Orchi. The 16760 is such a desirable reference that has untill recently flew under the radar.

Your study is ground breaking and one that's been sorely missed.

Good show.

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by mike

Wonderful research Orchi. The 16760 is such a desirable reference that has untill recently flew under the radar.

Your study is ground breaking and one that's been sorely missed.

Good show.

Err buddy Mike...you are the 1st...
n yes...the ONLY ONE GMT buddy out of millions around the World...
whom had in fact...inspired Orchi from the very beginning...
to aspire for the intriguing history n knowledge of the Vintage Rolex GMT watches...

Orchi was astonished by the your exemplary pictures on the range of Vintage Rolex GMT watches...
which are being published alongside the inspirational n well written literature of Rolex GMT Master watches...
by Buddy Tomvox1...in the World renown Buddy Delgado's www.doubleredseadweller.com ...
vintage Rolex watches website...

Without you Unselfish GMT Buddies...
Orchi would most certainly have been...clueless.

[klim1978]

Hi Orchi,

This is my maiden post. Actually stumbled onto this thread when i was trying to research on my 16710 that i owned since 1998. Was really curious why i had the "swiss t<25" dial instead of the "swiss made" dial.

Your research really answered most of my queries. Thanks

Here is my contribution (serial U155XXX)

[migboy]

great thread!!!

[GMTJOHNNY]

I learn something new every day here! Thanks!

[Tony-GB]

Orchi, your knowledge on all things Rolex astounds me, sir.

Thanks for sharing.

[SveinA]

I guess with this great presentation that the value of my "Mark 1 w.o. date" is going up! Should I keep her in the safe rather than the daily use over the last nearly 25 years?

[Ed Rooney]

Orchi-

Very good research.

Why do you consider the 16760 one of the most practical GMT-Masters?

I have had 2 chances to purchase fat-ladies in the past year, and simply passed them by. Now I regret that.

[stevemulholland3]

I have heard from several watchmakers that the caliber used in the Fatlady is actually quite fickle and one of the hardest to work on..
dont know if its true but thought I would throw in my 2 cents!!

[niconyc]

Hello Orchi,

I noticed a Pepsi GMT above, is it correct the 16760 was only sold in the coke configuration?

Cheers,

NB

[Perdu]

Outstanding and very interesting!

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by niconyc

Hello Orchi,

I noticed a Pepsi GMT above, is it correct the 16760 was only sold in the coke configuration?

Cheers,

NB

Err buddy Nico...yes definitely so...
16760 GMT II "Fat Lady" or "Sophia Loren" only comes with "COKE Red/Black" bezel...originally.
Also only in SS...no Gold model.

[Orchi]

Originally Posted by Ed Rooney

Orchi-

Very good research.

Why do you consider the 16760 one of the most practical GMT-Masters?

I have had 2 chances to purchase fat-ladies in the past year, and simply passed them by. Now I regret that.

Err buddy Ed...Orchi missed your post...sorry for late response.

It's most practical GMT Master at the time...due to 3 time zones...rather than 2.

[allanofcalifornia]

Beautiful pictures and great information! Thanks!!


Allan

[niconyc]

Thanks Orchi,

Such a great watch, I wear mine non stop!

[Orchi]

Err buddies...not sure what is happening with Photobucket...
but lately...Orchi too gets the dreaded message..."Bandwidth Exceeded"...
whenever Photobucket pictures are being blocked...
n not being uploaded...

IF you are using Firefox browser...
you could try the following...

So here it is...
what Orchi has discovered to be the quick FIX to the problem...
that Orchi wishes to share with the VRF Buddies here...
or at the least with those that are using the Mozilla FIREFOX...

At the FireFox browser...
TYPE...........................: About:config
PRESS Enter.

When prompted, CLICK............: I would be careful, I promise
Next Window would appear.

In Field "Filter", TYPE........: network.http.sendRefererHeader
FIND that Field at the bottom listing.
RIGHT Click the Field, CLICK...: Modify

On Next POP-UP, TYPE...........: 0 (instead of "2" as shown)
CLICK..........................: OK

CLOSE(X) the Window.

NOTE: For those that has plenty of pics being hosted in PhotoBucket for FREE...
or whenever your FIREFOX Browser fails to upload any pictures...
IF you wish to...you could undertake the above measure...
so as to prevent the same problem that Orchi had recently...
even though...you may have not experienced it...just yet.

IMPORTANT: TRY NOT TO BE TOO CURIOUS TO ATTEMPT MAKING OTHER CHANGES
IN THOSE OTHER FIELDS found in the FIREFOX system...

VOILA!!! ALL the pictures that were seemed to be "WIPE OUT" from the postings...
in the relevant Forum...would be uploaded n "RE-APPEAR" again.

NOT sure how that problem came about...
but the above quick FIX has worked for Orchi...

[waQstar]

Just found one, will have it Tuesday, can't wait

[Shamus]

I was reading this interesting old thread. Is it true that this Orchi guy was actually banned? Seems like he's very knowledgable on GMT's.

[jhupp]

Originally Posted by Shamus

I was reading this interesting old thread. Is it true that this Orchi guy was actually banned? Seems like he's very knowledgable on GMT's.

Yes, search his name and there's a thread about it.

IBTL?

[Grissom]

Best to simply let it go.......

[Shamus]

Originally Posted by jhupp

Yes, search his name and there's a thread about it.

IBTL?

Thanks! I see that thread now. I was just curious...

[shou.biao.kuang]

Originally Posted by Shamus

Thanks! I see that thread now. I was just curious...

Care to PM me the thread? thanks mate.

[springer]

An update to the "no date" dials - the early dials missing the word "date" after Oyster Perpetual.

Below are the two variations of the "no date" 16760 GMT-MASTER II dials. Since these have not but numbered anywhere in the past, I will refer to them in my photos as the Mark 1a and Mark 1b "no date" GMT 16760 early dials.

If you look at them closely, there are several variations - the most notable being the style of the dial coronets and the absence of the hyphen between GMT and Master in the 1b dial.

These are early 16760 dials, probably found mostly on the early 16760s in the lower serial numbers - up to 8.5 million range of numbers.