Advice needed on Day Date lapis dial

[Andrejkka]

Hello! I would be extremely grateful for any advice on a stone-dial Day Date. I have been looking for a lapis dial for a long time and I found one in great condition, but I am unsure about the dial. Unfortunately, I cannot see the watch in person and I have to make a decision based on photos only (attached). The watch is yellow gold, but the lettering on the dial seems to be silver, and I am unsure if the crown symbol on the dial is white gold or yellow gold. I would expect everything to match the case, so I find it odd. The other question I have is why is there T SWISS T on the dial when there is no lume on the watch. Could anyone advise if this is all just normal variation or a problem.
Many thanks!
Andrejkka

[oysterfisher]

Hello to the forum.
Its a nice vintage 18038 I assume?
T SWISS T was on most of the true "vintage" stonedials, seen on the 4 and five digit models. Later versions also could show SWISS or SWISS MADE.
Here is a great link to learn a lot about this dials.
The writing might be looking "silverish" due to the imagebox used by the seller. I wouldnt worry about it. The text font and setting is also correct for a T SWISS T 18038 Lapis dial. As you can see, its partially fading / shading. Thats normal for stonedials. Also common on others as the onyx and tigereye.

The secondhand or the minute/hour hand have a different color and condition, so I assume they might have been changed at some point.
The hands are not the same as basic dials. Stone dial handsets are by far taller in their holes. I assume 2x sized than a basic set, so its very difficult to find some.

Stone dial watches exist with lumeless hands (as in your case) and with lume hands. All factory spec.

In the time of first sale, no one even expected which hype will come. The lapis is not quite a rare version but a nice looking one with the unique blue color and shadows.

Seems to be a good dial, show a bit more... Case condition, bracelet condition, serial range / year.

[Andrejkka]

Thank you so much for the detailed and very helpful response! It is an 18038. I do not know the year but I can ask the owner. The case and bracelet are in excellent condition. It does have a couple of pyrite spots (not visible in the cropped photos I posted) that I am not crazy about. Other than that, I think it is very nice.

[oysterfisher]

The case and links are looking crisp and not overpolished. If the price is reasonable I would go for it

[miamiclay]

OP, the coronet and text look like the correct yellow color to me, though the text does seem unusually “flat,” which could just be a photo artifact. Personally, I like the pyrite inclusions, veins, etc. in the lapis dials. The occasional featureless, perfectly even blue ones - Well, they might as well be paint!

Originally Posted by oysterfisher

The hands are not the same as basic dials. Stone dial handsets are by far taller in their holes. I assume 2x sized than a basic set, so it’s very difficult to find some.

I’ve never heard this mentioned before! Do you mean that the “stone dial handsets” sit higher, farther from the movement? (If so, it seems like that would require different, taller hour and minute wheels, not different handsets … but then, I’m most certainly no watchmaker.) If this is so, presumably there are different part numbers for stone dial handsets (maybe also different for SQ and DQ stone dial models)?

It doesn’t seem like a no-markers stone dial would be significantly thicker than a basic dial with applied markers (although a stone dial with diamond markers could be). Is this also true of wood dials, or of myriad, pavé, Pleiades, and other gem-set dials?

[oysterfisher]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

OP, the coronet and text look like the correct yellow color to me, though the text does seem unusually “flat,” which could just be a photo artifact. Personally, I like the pyrite inclusions, veins, etc. in the lapis dials. The occasional featureless, perfectly even blue ones - Well, they might as well be paint!



I’ve never heard this mentioned before! Do you mean that the “stone dial handsets” sit higher, farther from the movement? (If so, it seems like that would require different, taller hour and minute wheels, not different handsets … but then, I’m most certainly no watchmaker.) If this is so, presumably there are different part numbers for stone dial handsets (maybe also different for SQ and DQ stone dial models)?

It doesn’t seem like a no-markers stone dial would be significantly thicker than a basic dial with applied markers (although a stone dial with diamond markers could be). Is this also true of wood dials, or of myriad, pavé, Pleiades, and other gem-set dials?

Yes they are quite thicker. Also dont forget the unique to stone dials added date/day window which makes for sure 1mm or more in difference.
The minute, hour, second wheels are not longer, but the hand holes are longer. They are approx 2x longer/higher than the basic ones and quite rare.

As far as I know the stone disc is glued on the basic metall disc. This procedure was made from 4 digit until 5 and 6 digit models.
Only the meteorite "modern dials" are made out of a disc meteorite material, without the metallic one.
As far as I know the hands are orderable.
If you try to install basic hands they scratch the date / day window and sometimes the dial.

I have attached a picture of the size comparison of the tubes. These are the hour hands of the 15xx movements.


Sorry for the poor quality. The tall tubes of the 30xx are easier to find than the early 70s version.

[miamiclay]

Great to know - Thanks so much!

[Andrejkka]

Hi Oysterfisher and Miamiclay
Thanks again for your advice on the lapis Day Date 18038. I did buy it, and it looks great in the metal. The hands are all uniform - those photos from the dealer were a bit off.
Oysterfisher, how come you have Day Date seconds hands just lying around for a casual photo?
Best
Andreja

[crowncollection]

Originally Posted by miamiclay

Great to know - Thanks so much!

These hands are used to clear diamond markers also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KY..]

Originally Posted by Andrejkka

Oysterfisher, how come you have Day Date seconds hands just lying around for a casual photo?

Pretty simple.
Many vintage collectors have come to understand correct parts for vintage watches are not readily available.
So it is smart to purchase certain hard to come by original parts, just in case for down the road, when opportunity knocks.

As mentioned, I understand the longer shafts on some hands were for pave diamond dials since the stones make the dial thicker.

Nice pickup, enjoy!