Tudor Submariner Snowflake - what to consider?

[Alex]

Hi all,

I need your trained eye and experience to help me on a watch purchase. I'm considering buying this Tudor Submariner 9411/0 from 1979, but am relatively new to vintage watches so could use a second opinion from the experts here.

The watch comes without box and papers, and the hands have been relumed.

If you can point out any caveats that I should look out for , it would be much appreciated! Also, what would be a fair value according to you guys?

Thanks for any information you can share!

[Scaramanga74]

Originally Posted by Alex

Hi all,

I need your trained eye and experience to help me on a watch purchase. I'm considering buying this Tudor Submariner 9411/0 from 1979, but am relatively new to vintage watches so could use a second opinion from the experts here.

The watch comes without box and papers, and the hands have been relumed.

If you can point out any caveats that I should look out for , it would be much appreciated! Also, what would be a fair value according to you guys?

Thanks for any information you can share!

Looking good! Hands look a bit off but I guess someone with skills could relume them to a better match if you feel like it. Relumed hands on Snowflakes is pretty common as the lume often cracks on the minute hand and falls off.

Nice looking insert but hard to tell if it´s a natural fade or artifical. The case looks a bit polished but not that bad. I´ve had a few snowflakes during the years and would be pretty happy owning this example.

Do you have more photos?

[Alex]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, really helpful! Unfortunately that's all the pictures I've got of the listing...

[linesiders]

Watch looks probably OK, but do need better photographs to feel more comfortable. Yes the hands would want to be color matched to match the lume plots

[996marty]

Hands need looking at as mentioned above but that’s should be pretty straightforward Alchemist relumer has a great recommendation here in the uk for such jobs.
If you go ahead with it I’m sure you’ll love it,They are brilliant watches.
I think you can tell they are one of my favourites

[studioal]

Originally Posted by Alex

Thanks a lot for the feedback, really helpful! Unfortunately that's all the pictures I've got of the listing...

Ask for more. You're going to want to see the sides of the case/lugs and crownguards to really make a determination. How much is the asking price?

[Dom9]

Appreciate the pictures are at an angle but the cyclops looks offset to the right to me, possibly a 1680 25-127 as opposed to correct 25-125?

Handsome piece I'd say but would want the lug engravings, case back and picture of the movement showing the balance.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

With a watch like this, BUY THE SELLER. Many of these happen to be "frankenstein" watches given their ETA modified movements. Cases often unoriginal, hands etc.

Hands here are a little suspicious. Cross-referencing the model reference and year with the movement inside will be essential to ensure it is indeed period correct.

I personally would stay away from vintage (especially if you're new), unless you have someone close to you whom you can trust. These Tudor subs demand 5 figure sums today!

Be careful!

[tekno]

Or buy from someone reputable. Problem solved.


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[Alex]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've received some more pictures from the seller, who seemed to have bought it from a vintage shop himself in Germany (so the pictures date from a couple years back). Watch hasn't been polished since, and has hardly been worn according to seller.

Seller himself seems to have many good reviews and has been active on the platform for a long time. I believe I'm getting a very sweet deal here, so I'll go for it (will of course closely inspect the watch on pickup).

[linesiders]

Caveat Emptor

Very suspicious photos. Some of the lume markings are not the same, could be the photos washed out, which alone is concerning.

I would not even consider this without completely new, and completely clear and focused images, with a time on hands set to a time that you request.

[77T]

Originally Posted by Alex

If you can point out any caveats that I should look out for , it would be much appreciated!

Beware sellers who can't take a current picture.

2-yr. old Chrono24 photos?

Just my


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[996marty]

Originally Posted by 77T

Beware sellers who can't take a current picture.

2-yr. old Chrono24 photos?

Just my


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Some very sound advice here

[studioal]

Originally Posted by 77T

Beware sellers who can't take a current picture.

2-yr. old Chrono24 photos?

Just my


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Major red flag. There's not a single excuse from the seller that would lead me to give this a pass. Purely based off these "new" photos, the case looks decently polished, but everything else looks good.

I'll ask again, how much are they asking for it?

[Scaramanga74]

Originally Posted by Alex

Thanks for the feedback guys. I've received some more pictures from the seller, who seemed to have bought it from a vintage shop himself in Germany (so the pictures date from a couple years back). Watch hasn't been polished since, and has hardly been worn according to seller.

Seller himself seems to have many good reviews and has been active on the platform for a long time. I believe I'm getting a very sweet deal here, so I'll go for it (will of course closely inspect the watch on pickup).

Ouch, I would not be happy with those polished case sides and crown guards, unless it´s a bargain. Did not suspect that from your first pictures.

[Alex]

Hi guys, quick update. I’ve purchased the watch. Investigated it really well on pickup and the state of the watch matched the pictures of Chrono24.

The dial peeled of slightly on a couple of places on the side but barely noticeable, and the case is indeed a bit polished but in ok condition to me. Power reserve seems to be around 40 hours. Accuracy is rather low though, as it looses around 60-75 seconds met day. The seller also told me that it hasn’t been serviced in a while, so I’ll do that soon. One other thing that I found interesting is that the date shifts at 11.47pm. Was funny to see to me as that doesn’t happen on my modern watches, but doesn’t seem problematic. Next step is to find a service center where I don’t risk they f up the watch by replacing too many vintage parts with new ones, so that excludes the Rolex Service Center…

As for the price, I’m convinced I did an amazing deal. I paid under €4500 for it, but curious to hear if you guys also believe it was a bargain. In any case, I’m extremely happy with the piece, one of the coolest if not the coolest in my collection.

I need to note that, while your warning signs where duly noted, I wasn’t too worried about this deal as I live in Singapore (which is where the deal took place), which is genuinely one of the safest/safer countries on earth :) my main concern was around the authenticity of all parts of the watch, but as you guys already said “buy the seller”, and the seller seemed to be an honest watch collector.

Cheers

[Alex]

Hi guys, wanted to update you. I went ahead and purchased the watch.

I of course inspected it closely on pickup, and the pictures from Chrono24 were accurate. The dial is slightly peeled of on the sights, but it is barely noticeable and as long as it doesn’t get worse I can easily live with that. The case is indeed a bit polished, but it’s definitely still ok and I’m happy with it.

The power reserve seems to be around 40-41 hours, though the the watch is running slow. Accuracy is -60 to -75 seconds per day, so clearly the movement needs a service. The seller also indicated exactly that, since it’s been a while (2018) since the last service. Another funny thing I noticed is that the date changes quite early, at 11.47pm. While I’ve read on the blog this is not bad and quite normal, it’s not something I’m used to with my modern watches.

Next step for me is to find a reputable service shop that can do the service without replacing the original parts with newer, non period correct ones (so that will most likely exclude the Rolex Service Center). In fact they should likely just oil the movement, and they cannot touch any of the visible parts of the watch.

While your warnings were duly noted, I need to say that I wasn’t too worried (safety or scamming wise) for this deal, as I live in Singapore which is generally one of the safest countries in the world. My main concern was the authenticity of all the pieces, but since the seller seemed to be a vintage watch collector himself, I’m again not too worried (though I will inquire about this when I service the watch at an expert). As you guys said, “buy the seller”.

Lastly on the price, I still believe I did a real bargain here, as I paid less than €4.500 for it. That’s a long way from 5 figures. Curious to see your opinion on it of course!

Cheers

[Scaramanga74]

Originally Posted by Alex

Hi guys, wanted to update you. I went ahead and purchased the watch.

I of course inspected it closely on pickup, and the pictures from Chrono24 were accurate. The dial is slightly peeled of on the sights, but it is barely noticeable and as long as it doesn’t get worse I can easily live with that. The case is indeed a bit polished, but it’s definitely still ok and I’m happy with it.

The power reserve seems to be around 40-41 hours, though the the watch is running slow. Accuracy is -60 to -75 seconds per day, so clearly the movement needs a service. The seller also indicated exactly that, since it’s been a while (2018) since the last service. Another funny thing I noticed is that the date changes quite early, at 11.47pm. While I’ve read on the blog this is not bad and quite normal, it’s not something I’m used to with my modern watches.

Next step for me is to find a reputable service shop that can do the service without replacing the original parts with newer, non period correct ones (so that will most likely exclude the Rolex Service Center). In fact they should likely just oil the movement, and they cannot touch any of the visible parts of the watch.

While your warnings were duly noted, I need to say that I wasn’t too worried (safety or scamming wise) for this deal, as I live in Singapore which is generally one of the safest countries in the world. My main concern was the authenticity of all the pieces, but since the seller seemed to be a vintage watch collector himself, I’m again not too worried (though I will inquire about this when I service the watch at an expert). As you guys said, “buy the seller”.

Lastly on the price, I still believe I did a real bargain here, as I paid less than €4.500 for it. That’s a long way from 5 figures. Curious to see your opinion on it of course!

Cheers

Well done! Yes, it was a bargain

[996marty]

Great result in the end

[Dom9]

Seems like a great deal - wow! Secondary market does seem soft... Thought I was doing well picking up a good 79090 for £3200 today... 9411 for a few hundred more makes me think twice now!

[studioal]

Seems like photos of the watch are customary...Let's see it!

[Dom9]

Mine? Will get some pics with its 76100 and other T-Sub siblings this weekend and start my own thread :)