This is why Rolex will always be king

[rolexpatek363]

Why?

[njlam]

Originally Posted by Wingman244

I think Rolex plays a dangerous game. Walking into a store and not being able to buy the product is very strange for a any sort of brand. I was at my AD a couple of weeks ago trying on some of the "display only" models. The sales woman could not have been more bored with me. Then I strolled over to the Panerai and Tudor displays and she turned into a different person. I had never really considered Panerai. I was very interested. Still researching the heck out of them. I will probably pick up one or two in the next few months. Which you can buy same day. Now if I could have purchased a Rolex that day I probably would have never looked at Panerai.

I agree with this. While the current generation is completely infatuated with Rolex, the current buying experience is unappealing to say the least. As my kids become successful professionals, I am sure they will not tolerate this BS treatment.

It is worth noting brands like Mercedes and BMW mean nothing to the younger generation where everyone thinks Tesla is the only car brand to own. Rolex is doing nothing to make younger buyers feel good about wearing a watch.

While Rolex has been aspirational to the current generation of buyers, it is possible if not likely the next generation will not tolerate non-inclusive behavior.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by njlam

I agree with this. While the current generation is completely infatuated with Rolex, the current buying experience is unappealing to say the least. As my kids become successful professionals, I am sure they will not tolerate this BS treatment.

It is worth noting brands like Mercedes and BMW mean nothing to the younger generation where everyone thinks Tesla is the only car brand to own. Rolex is doing nothing to make younger buyers feel good about wearing a watch.

While Rolex has been aspirational to the current generation of buyers, it is possible if not likely the next generation will not tolerate non-inclusive behavior.

There was an article on WatchPro about this recently:
https://www.watchpro.com/how-gen-z-i...-watch-market/

The younger generations are a lot more into watches, and indeed Rolex than we might think.

As for Rolex not doing much to appeal to younger generations, I’d tend to disagree here. Their involvement with really young Tennis stars for example, like Alcaraz, Sinner and Gough, is very much gaining traction, along with the brands association with its environmental efforts too. A few watch brands are trying hard to appeal to younger audiences, such as AP, collaborating with Travis Scott for example (ew)

[Krash]

Originally Posted by njlam

I agree with this. While the current generation is completely infatuated with Rolex, the current buying experience is unappealing to say the least. As my kids become successful professionals, I am sure they will not tolerate this BS treatment.

It is worth noting brands like Mercedes and BMW mean nothing to the younger generation where everyone thinks Tesla is the only car brand to own. Rolex is doing nothing to make younger buyers feel good about wearing a watch.

While Rolex has been aspirational to the current generation of buyers, it is possible if not likely the next generation will not tolerate non-inclusive behavior.

Let’s walk through your logic. If they won’t tolerate this “BS treatment,” then what would happen?

Perhaps Rolex watches would become more available again like they were pre-2017. That would essentially address the hypothetical non-inclusive problem you’re suggesting. Rolex watches would essentially become inclusive again.

But I’m not buying any of that anyway…I don’t see the younger generations reacting the way you’re suggesting.


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[Wingman244]

IDK, I live in Seattle. I don't understand how the watch industry survives. No one wears anything but Apple and Garmin watches out here from the 1st year programmer to the CEO. I work on $100 Billion websites and not a single person at work (except me) wears a nice watch. I work with people that have a lot of money - we all live in $2M homes and drive Teslas (I drive a Raptor... LOL) About 8 years ago I ditched my watches and got an Apple Watch. Now that I am within 2 years of retirement I started my watch collection back up. But I am a unicorn at work. I look but no one wears a nice watch. I just don't understand who buys these. I take vacations in Florida - all the old retirees wear nice watches. That's not good.

[sombra]

I hear you. Only a couple of my friends have a nice watch. And they only own one, a daily wear watch and that's it.

Sometimes I meet someone, for instance a car dealership manager or an attorney with a nice watch. Maybe they have a collection, who knows.

My point being it is sometimes hard to figure out the Rolex watch shortage at the authorized dealers with the absence of evidence on a personal level.

[GBD]

"Always" is an awfully long time. I would say the opposite is true: in time, without question, Rolex will lose their position. It might not happen soon, but no company remains "the best" forever.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by Wingman244

IDK, I live in Seattle. I don't understand how the watch industry survives. No one wears anything but Apple and Garmin watches out here from the 1st year programmer to the CEO. I work on $100 Billion websites and not a single person at work (except me) wears a nice watch. I work with people that have a lot of money - we all live in $2M homes and drive Teslas (I drive a Raptor... LOL) About 8 years ago I ditched my watches and got an Apple Watch. Now that I am within 2 years of retirement I started my watch collection back up. But I am a unicorn at work. I look but no one wears a nice watch. I just don't understand who buys these. I take vacations in Florida - all the old retirees wear nice watches. That's not good.

It’s a big wide world out there. All too easy to think something doesn’t happen because you don’t see it immediately in front of you.
Rolex’s revenue last year was about $10B… that’s for 30% of the luxury watch market. They’re going somewhere, just perhaps not so much in the locale near you in Seattle haha

[Wingman244]

Originally Posted by sombra

I hear you. Only a couple of my friends have a nice watch. And they only own one, a daily wear watch and that's it.

Sometimes I meet someone, for instance a car dealership manager or an attorney with a nice watch. Maybe they have a collection, who knows.

My point being it is sometimes hard to figure out the Rolex watch shortage at the authorized dealers with the absence of evidence on a personal level.

Yeah, when I started work in the mid 80's. I worked first at General Motors - At GM a 2 tone Datejust was mandatory for any VP and above. An all Gold Rolex was for the senior executives. You had to be careful and not wear a "gold" Rolex there if you were not a VP - you might look uppity. Everyone had nice watches. I remember going on my honeymoon and my wife buying me a nice watch so "I would fit in and look the part." Today the flex is the Apple Watch Ultra. Everytime someone picks one up - people will make a comment "oh you got an Ultra!" "How do you like it?" Me sitting there with a Daytona... What, hey I have a nice watch? (Just kidding). At least people still like watches.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

It's definitely a cult when you close your mind to the rest of horology, and just carry on drinking the Kool-Aid, is it not?

I started this thread, and I own Patek, GS, Seiko, Hamilton, Omega, Tudor.

Doesn’t mean Rolex isn’t king. I love Patek and it’s better than Rolex in many ways, but it won’t ever generate the kind of revenue that Rolex does.

[warrior]

Generally, and there are exceptions of course depending on the area, Wingman’s experience rings true ….more of an American thing. When people have disposable income in America, it’s about big cars and houses more than anything. Watches are waaaaay low on the totem pole currently.

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

It’s a big wide world out there. All too easy to think something doesn’t happen because you don’t see it immediately in front of you.
Rolex’s revenue last year was about $10B… that’s for 30% of the luxury watch market. They’re going somewhere, just perhaps not so much in the locale near you in Seattle haha

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

I started this thread, and I own Patek, GS, Seiko, Hamilton, Omega, Tudor.

Doesn’t mean Rolex isn’t king. I love Patek and it’s better than Rolex in many ways, but it won’t ever generate the kind of revenue that Rolex does.

Good to hear that you have some good watches, but you are posting opinion dressed up as fact.

McDonalds make a lot more revenue than Michelin-starred restaurants do. Is McDonalds therefore king of restaurants?

[eugenetsang]

Originally Posted by Wingman244

IDK, I live in Seattle. I don't understand how the watch industry survives. No one wears anything but Apple and Garmin watches out here from the 1st year programmer to the CEO. I work on $100 Billion websites and not a single person at work (except me) wears a nice watch. I work with people that have a lot of money - we all live in $2M homes and drive Teslas (I drive a Raptor... LOL) About 8 years ago I ditched my watches and got an Apple Watch. Now that I am within 2 years of retirement I started my watch collection back up. But I am a unicorn at work. I look but no one wears a nice watch. I just don't understand who buys these. I take vacations in Florida - all the old retirees wear nice watches. That's not good.

You’ve pigeonholed yourself into one employment category. You said you're in tech/IT. Being said, majority of your coworkers are probably into tech and gadgets. Smart wearables are probably their choice of toys.

Shift your focus to other forms of employment, such as finance, legal, medical, and business sales, I bet you their preferred choice of watches are swiss made. Not made in china smart wearables.

Nothing screams."I'm successful" than having a expensive luxury watch on your wrist.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by eugenetsang

Nothing screams."I'm successful" than having a expensive luxury watch on your wrist.

I have a few Rolex. Rolex is and will remain the pinnacle of my horological attainment. I am considered successful in my niche sales career and yet I know my financial limitations. The cost benefit analysis works with rolex, I don’t need anything else. Hell, I don’t need Rolex but I like them, I understand them and their position in the marketplace. Even though nothing screams “I’m successful” like luxury watches mine are silent; within my world nobody notices my watches therefore they make no sound at all. I enjoy my success and I enjoy my watches and I enjoy that no one else can hear them scream.

[eugenetsang]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

I have a few Rolex. Rolex is and will remain the pinnacle of my horological attainment. I am considered successful in my niche sales career and yet I know my financial limitations. The cost benefit analysis works with rolex, I don’t need anything else. Hell, I don’t need Rolex but I like them, I understand Rolex and their position in the marketplace. Even though nothing screams “I’m successful” like luxury watches mine are silent; within my world nobody notices my watches therefore they make no sound at all. I enjoy my success and I enjoy my watches and I enjoy that no one else can hear them scream.

I'm not trying to knock you for liking Rolex. I too have a few and enjoy wearing them. I don't know what you mean when you say you wear yours in silent? Maybe you mean you're humble and low-key about it? And not trying to flex what's on your wrist?

If so, I'm the same way. But if I randomly saw you at a restaurant and saw whatever Rolex that you're wearing, I'm going to assume you're "successful" in whatever way possible. And have disposable income to burn.

Otherwise, I'm sure a $9k+ plus watch shouldn't be on your wrist.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Good to hear that you have some good watches, but you are posting opinion dressed up as fact.

McDonalds make a lot more revenue than Michelin-starred restaurants do. Is McDonalds therefore king of restaurants?

No, that’s Burger King silly!!!!

But your point stands.

A Lange or other low volume independants are the kings of horology

Rolex is the king of marketing and mass produced Swiss watches

Apple is the king of wrist computers

Kings can often be toppled…..

…it wasn’t that long ago that Omega, Longines and Breguet ruled the watch world and Rolex was their spotty younger brother.

Times change, trends change, tastes change.

When Rolex is no longer seen as scarce, rare or a hype item, what does it have left? Horology?…no there are better at that. Movement technology?…nope..

…they just make nice solid watches

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by karleone

Give me other brands that offer everything I mentionned?

I actually agree with you somewhat in that Rolex has the largest catalogue of watches that offer all of what you listed.

Having searched pretty far and wide especially during that 2021-2022 period when getting a Rolex at an AD was almost impossible, I have found watches that have that overall Rolex "feel", but it was more like certain models from brands instead of an entire brand. Watches like the IWC Mark XX, GO SeaQ, Omega Speedy Pro, Zenith Chronomaster Sport (hehe), and some of the newer Tudors stand out from my experience. The first 3 I mentioned would make a killer non-Rolex 3 watch collection imo.

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by Wingman244

I worked at Microsoft in the day... Our VP would tell us - "We are the best because we are the smartest people in the world." Wrong message. Should have been saying - work hard, there are a lot of hungry companies ready to eat our lunch. I'm sure Rolex marketing people are very smart but they are not special, they were born on 3rd base and have been gifted a great brand. I would be worried and always looking in the rear view mirror. Things can change overnight. SMH about the Microsoft problems today - that's certainly not good for the brand. Microsoft went from King to now a profitable follower.

I think Rolex plays a dangerous game. Walking into a store and not being able to buy the product is very strange for a any sort of brand. I was at my AD a couple of weeks ago trying on some of the "display only" models. The sales woman could not have been more bored with me. Then I strolled over to the Panerai and Tudor displays and she turned into a different person. I had never really considered Panerai. I was very interested. Still researching the heck out of them. I will probably pick up one or two in the next few months. Which you can buy same day. Now if I could have purchased a Rolex that day I probably would have never looked at Panerai.

I've consistently gone against popular opinion on this, but I do not think Rolex wants or enjoys the current state of affairs for some of the reasons you mentioned.

They produce 1.2 million watches a year and plan to make more, it is indeed a dangerous game they are playing to cultivate a feel of extreme exclusivity when their business model is to produce so many watches at an industrial level. This isn't Patek or Lange.

I doubt they want to go back to their mall watch past where you could walk into a random Ben Bridge in some suburban mall and find a bunch of Rolexes on display. But I also firmly believe they want someone that is able to afford it to be able to walk into their boutiques and at least be able to walk out with a Submariner.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

I've consistently gone against popular opinion on this, but I do not think Rolex wants or enjoys the current state of affairs for some of the reasons you mentioned.

They produce 1.2 million watches a year and plan to make more, it is indeed a dangerous game they are playing to cultivate a feel of extreme exclusivity when their business model is to produce so many watches at an industrial level. This isn't Patek or Lange.

I doubt they want to go back to their mall watch past where you could walk into a random Ben Bridge in some suburban mall and find a bunch of Rolexes on display. But I also firmly believe they want someone that is able to afford it to be able to walk into their boutiques and at least be able to walk out with a Submariner.

I think it’s more about striking a fine balance. Has that balance been off for the past 3-4yrs? Yes indeed, but the scales are beginning to shift back again. Rolex know what they’re doing.

[Talon84]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

I think it’s more about striking a fine balance. Has that balance been off for the past 3-4yrs? Yes indeed, but the scales are beginning to shift back again. Rolex know what they’re doing.

Let’s hope so.

They can control production, but they can’t control previous models flooding the market.

Ramping up production with new factories at the same time that flippers and investment junkies sell up and leave the market along with grey dealers off loading stock….

….its a tricky dynamic to control.

Part of the allure of Rolex is its supposed rarity and resale value. Lose those 2 things and it could turn off a chunk of their clientele

Guess it will be interesting to see how Rolex deal with that to ensure their products remain desirable enough

Fine balance as you say!

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Good to hear that you have some good watches, but you are posting opinion dressed up as fact.

McDonalds make a lot more revenue than Michelin-starred restaurants do. Is McDonalds therefore king of restaurants?

I didn’t say Rolex is the king of watches. If you want to say that by volume, it’s probably Apple. Selling 40 million watches per year compared to Rolexes measly 1 million. I said Rolex is the king of luxury watches, and it’s true.

Also restaurants are a completely different industry. Highly local and segmented. You need a different example to make your point that’s actually relevant.

[rolexpatek363]

"I said Rolex is the king of luxury watches, and it’s true."

What does king mean? I would say PP are the king, or VC, or Lange. Or going higher FPJ, Armin Strom, Voutlainan, MB&F, Roger Smith etc.

IOW, define your terms.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

"I said Rolex is the king of luxury watches, and it’s true."

What does king mean? I would say PP are the king, or VC, or Lange. Or going higher FPJ, Armin Strom, Voutlainan, MB&F, Roger Smith etc.

IOW, define your terms.

King means they dominate the luxury watch segment by revenue.

Rolex = King

[elau1958]

Of course there are many many better watches out there than Rolex.

Who do you think will get laid first wearing a Rolex Submariner walking into a club? Or the chap wearing an 18K platinum ALS Darth Vader?

[elau1958]

Originally Posted by warrior

Generally, and there are exceptions of course depending on the area, Wingman’s experience rings true ….more of an American thing. When people have disposable income in America, it’s about big cars and houses more than anything. Watches are waaaaay low on the totem pole currently.

If you frequent Asia and will realize Swiss watches is the norm, not exception. They have plenty of disposable income since most don't have house and car payments, they spend their money on watches and they are fascinated with them. Not a recent phenomenon but Centuries old. It is not uncommon you see some regular guy wearing a Patek Nautilus or a solid gold Rolex Date Day in the subway.

[watchmavan]

Originally Posted by Rollieo;[emoji[emoji638

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Also restaurants are a completely different industry. Highly local and segmented. You need a different example to make your point that’s actually relevant.

You don’t really need a “better” example, just go volume instead. Regimes, art, political movements, fashion, food, architecture, sporting teams, the list is endless. What is the same? Time at the top! It may be fleeting, it may be quite enduring, but the consistency is that what rises to the top will fall. Rolex may appear to have been at the top for ever but this is just relative to your experience. In reality, a more accurate view for a watch nerd would be to look at watch cases size preferences.


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[Wingman244]

Originally Posted by eugenetsang

You’ve pigeonholed yourself into one employment category. You said you're in tech/IT. Being said, majority of your coworkers are probably into tech and gadgets. Smart wearables are probably their choice of toys.

Shift your focus to other forms of employment, such as finance, legal, medical, and business sales, I bet you their preferred choice of watches are swiss made. Not made in china smart wearables.

Nothing screams."I'm successful" than having a expensive luxury watch on your wrist.

Apple sold 58 million watches in 2022. They sell between 30 and 50 million each year. It's estimated that 115 million people wear an Apple watch. I currently don't work for a "tech" company and as a watch guy I am always looking to see what other executives in the other business areas are wearing as I sit in yet another boring unproductive meeting. At least on the West Coast - most of them wear Apple Watches. The Apple Watch is the new "Iron Man" that Bill Clinton famously wore in the 1990s to prove to everyone he was just a regular guy.

To be honest, if I am meeting with senior level executives or any large in-person meeting - I leave my watch at my desk and put on my Apple Watch that I keep for workouts. If it is a big meeting day, I leave my watch home.

[Soultime]

Originally Posted by njlam

I agree with this. While the current generation is completely infatuated with Rolex, the current buying experience is unappealing to say the least. As my kids become successful professionals, I am sure they will not tolerate this BS treatment.

It is worth noting brands like Mercedes and BMW mean nothing to the younger generation where everyone thinks Tesla is the only car brand to own. Rolex is doing nothing to make younger buyers feel good about wearing a watch.

While Rolex has been aspirational to the current generation of buyers, it is possible if not likely the next generation will not tolerate non-inclusive behavior.

This may be a very localised view.

In Europe, younger generation don't really want a Tesla. Tesla are viewed as plain vanilla. A white good.

A lot of the younger generation like to show off on social media. The more flash and expensive, the better.

So they still aspire to Porsche, Ferrari (BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc) and Rolex.
If you ask what watch they would like, most will say a Rolex even if they don't know anything about them. It's the bragging rights it brings them.

[dubins930]

Originally Posted by Soultime

This may be a very localised view.

In Europe, younger generation don't really want a Tesla. Tesla are viewed as plain vanilla. A white good.

A lot of the younger generation like to show off on social media. The more flash and expensive, the better.

So they still aspire to Porsche, Ferrari (BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc) and Rolex.
If you ask what watch they would like, most will say a Rolex even if they don't know anything about them. It's the bragging rights it brings them.

Exactly! Rolex will always the pinnacle of watches for people who know nothing of watches and horology.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by Soultime

This may be a very localised view.

In Europe, younger generation don't really want a Tesla. Tesla are viewed as plain vanilla. A white good.

A lot of the younger generation like to show off on social media. The more flash and expensive, the better.

So they still aspire to Porsche, Ferrari (BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc) and Rolex.
If you ask what watch they would like, most will say a Rolex even if they don't know anything about them. It's the bragging rights it brings them.

Completely agree, over here in the UK, aside from a fringe community, the majority see the Tesla as somewhat of a white good, like a microwave on wheels. It has no desirability and as an expression of taste, well... it doesn't exactly evoke excitement compared to other perhaps more, dynamic brands.

As for the Apple watch argument, it's actually been widely discussed that since its launch and following success, it's actually got people exploring wristwatches again once more. It's played a massive part in the resurgence of automatic and luxury watches over the last decade. Think of it this way, people realised that while the Apple watch may be great at what it does, it's certainly not an expression of style and taste, along with an apparent display of status. People learned that "real" watches can fit into those categories better. Those who "prefer" to wear an Apple watch over a traditional watch are becoming fewer and fewer. I have one that I wear exclusively for training and sleeping, outside of that, it's a traditional watch for me, and I know a lot of others who are like that too.

Unbelievably, the Apple watch is actually one of the reasons you can't get a Rolex very easily today...