Starting to get pissed at AP.

[7sins]

Originally Posted by mikef82

Where can I buy the 16202 for 10-20% above retail �� or the 15550 just a bit above retail?

Lucky to find a 16202 at min 50% premium to msrp. Maybe he meant 15202.

[Akacoke]

Originally Posted by PandaCansado

I'm also in the Bay Area and chose SCP. Met my SA the first time and he had a fairly specific timeline for some RO & ROO pieces for me which led me to be hopeful. A few weeks later I get an email saying that he is leaving and I was transferring to a different SA. Given that it isn't the easiest to go drop by and meet the new person, I tried emailing multiple times and even calling the boutique to talk to the new person. Total crickets and nothing.

I was in Rome in Feb and stopped by the shop there. Told them how my current boutique was ghosting me, they were friendly, and they had one of the ROO pieces I wanted. Right as they were about to sell it to me, they did a total 180 and got hostile saying I needed to keep working with SCP, even though they don't even return my calls or emails. I had to walk out with my wife as I was being yelled at by a rude SA in Rome. At this point I felt like I had to beg to spend money and was off put, so I reached out to AP HQ and told them about how I was disappointed in bot SCP and Rome locations and gave the reasons why.

After a few months I had the manager of SCP reply to one of the emails I sent HQ, they just forwarded it to her. She tried to tell me that my new SA has been calling me and getting no reply. I took a screenshot of the phone logs and said that wasn't the case. The same day my newSA finally calls me, and we speak for the first time. Her tone is totally different than my first SA, saying how I gotta buy a Code or "less popular" ROO, cause the 10 or so Offshores I liked were "popular". It was terrible.

Since then I've tried to reach out and keep the contact going but my SA ignores my texts, or replies weeks later and she has clearly forgot any of the details of our conversation. Last time you could tell she looked me up in the CMS and she said "I hope you had a lovely time visiting our boutique in Rome", so I know they're just blowing smoke.

Either way, SCP has not been a good experience for me. I had a decent collection of other pieces and this is just pushing me to buy other pieces, not stay on the hamster wheel and keep being treated like I am not valued.

I'm sorry your experience was like this. I've always gotten really good treatments with all the boutiques except for the AP crystal one in Vegas. AP IMO is best to by grey. Most 90% of their pieces end up under retail. Today I saw a star wheel on Moda for couple grand above retail plus tax.

[Ashj52]

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with AP. Mine has been the complete opposite in London—outstanding service and transparency. I was allocated a Royal Oak during the "hype" as my first AP with no pressure to purchase anything I wasn't too keen on. I guess luck plays a part.

[Vivalas]

Originally Posted by Ashj52

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with AP. Mine has been the complete opposite in London—outstanding service and transparency. I was allocated a Royal Oak during the "hype" as my first AP with no pressure to purchase anything I wasn't too keen on. I guess luck plays a part.

Same for me. I’ve never been told to buy X model to get better allocations going forward. Or any hint. I’ve only ever said what I’d like and over time that’s happened.

The only time that any conversation has been had about what I may get is when I jokingly said I’d like the jumbo and a blue steel chrono as my next two watches (after my last watch was a blue anniversary 15510) and I was told that getting 3 blue dials allocated in a row was probably pushing it a bit.

Well you don’t ask, you don’t get

After that I bought a black dial rose gold, then I got a jumbo, so I was very happy.

[Ashj52]

Originally Posted by Vivalas

Same for me. I’ve never been told to buy X model to get better allocations going forward. Or any hint. I’ve only ever said what I’d like and over time that’s happened.

The only time that any conversation has been had about what I may get is when I jokingly said I’d like the jumbo and a blue steel chrono as my next two watches (after my last watch was a blue anniversary 15510) and I was told that getting 3 blue dials allocated in a row was probably pushing it a bit.

Well you don’t ask, you don’t get

After that I bought a black dial rose gold, then I got a jumbo, so I was very happy.

That's good to hear you weren't pressured either! Out of curiosity how is it having both a Jumbo and a 15510? I'm wondering if the jumbo's excellent proportions make one wear their 15510 less often etc

[quattro98]

It's interesting to see these experiences. I wonder what AP's plan is for the long term across different market cycles and product launches.

They seem to be focused on "relationships" without much concern for the customer experience. I still remember when a Nautilus sat in the display case and you could get off a cruise ship and buy a RO at a discount (15300).

The products are nice, but there are plenty of reports of movement problems and poor experiences mixed in. I suspect that much of the demand for the RO and watches in general is probably driven by the delta between MSRP and secondary.

I wonder how many people want watches when they think about them as an ordinary consumer good with high depreciation and poor secondary market, as has been the case until the past decade or so.

[SN2354]

Originally Posted by quattro98

I wonder how many people want watches when they think about them as an ordinary consumer good with high depreciation and poor secondary market, as has been the case until the past decade or so.

To this point, I think AP commands a different type of customer that may not care what the resale is or depreciation. They want one of the finest timepieces available, and will have a collection of fine timepieces that are typically not sold/traded to get the latest and greatest.

[messikens]

Isn't this what has already now happened and which is why you have journey pieces (Code PMs, ROO PMs etc).

If that wasn't the case then why would a SA recommend you round out your collection.... Because they are already slow sellers

[Vivalas]

Originally Posted by Ashj52

That's good to hear you weren't pressured either! Out of curiosity how is it having both a Jumbo and a 15510? I'm wondering if the jumbo's excellent proportions make one wear their 15510 less often etc

Sorry Ash, didn’t see this. No bizarrely out of all my watches, my 15510 gets most wear. My favourite watch I’d say.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by quattro98

I wonder how many people want watches when they think about them as an ordinary consumer good with high depreciation and poor secondary market, as has been the case until the past decade or so.

For AP the number would round down to zero on a plot next to top brands. I suppose you could use a log plot to make it look more fair at first.

[quattro98]

I wonder what the response of the current customers will be in a down market. Right now, the APRO is the latest and greatest, despite it's long history which includes periods of ready availability.

Originally Posted by SN2354

To this point, I think AP commands a different type of customer that may not care what the resale is or depreciation. They want one of the finest timepieces available, and will have a collection of fine timepieces that are typically not sold/traded to get the latest and greatest.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by quattro98

I wonder what the response of the current customers will be in a down market. Right now, the APRO is the latest and greatest, despite it's long history which includes periods of ready availability.

At some point it will be like panerai maybe - demand is already slowing down and I’m sure over the next 5-10 years it will be another watch brand that’s hot.
Doesn’t mean that they will hurt that much - holy trinity brand with great legacy and catalog just not going to be trading crazy over retail


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[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by quattro98

I wonder what the response of the current customers will be in a down market. Right now, the APRO is the latest and greatest, despite it's long history which includes periods of ready availability.

AP's long term brand equity won't diminish much imo. lots of the hate for AP comes from the same reason why people like AP in the first place- exclusivity. AP (and other brands) relied on both high prices & safeguarding hot models to make their brand appear exclusive. even if prices drop below retail for most RO models, these pieces are still "exclusive" in the traditional sense...meaning it's still expensive for most watch collectors.

the other type of hate comes from the fact that AP was overhyped. this is true. in no reasonable world should a three handed RO be trading for $200k or even $100k lmao. so when new customers & hype beasts compare AP's baseline value to the height of the stupidness, obviously it looks like AP is headed down.

but if you comp AP today versus what it was in 2019, the business is still healthy and the brand is as prestigious as it was before. this is where long term CAGR trends are more valuable than simple YoY trends...when you ignore the short term volatility in both brand interest and business fundamentals, long term trends are extremely positive and will likely continue to be positive for a long time

brand equity and secondary prices are not exactly the same thing.

[PreferHackingSeconds]

Originally Posted by quattro98

It's interesting to see these experiences. I wonder what AP's plan is for the long term across different market cycles and product launches.

They seem to be focused on "relationships" without much concern for the customer experience. I still remember when a Nautilus sat in the display case and you could get off a cruise ship and buy a RO at a discount (15300).

The products are nice, but there are plenty of reports of movement problems and poor experiences mixed in. I suspect that much of the demand for the RO and watches in general is probably driven by the delta between MSRP and secondary.

I wonder how many people want watches when they think about them as an ordinary consumer good with high depreciation and poor secondary market, as has been the case until the past decade or so.

Ironically for me, AP has been stellar in customer relationship. I'm four watches in, nothing crazy, just regular Royal Oak and Chrono, Offshore and Code. However they invited me to a local masterclass where we got to assemble a 4302 movement in a group of 8, supervised and taught by 3 watchmakers. I've been invited to more events more than any of the other brands I collect from.

They have also never encouraged me to buy anything I don't want. Call me a fanboy, but any AP to me is a nice AP and I am not asked to buy ladies jewellery or other Purchase with Purchase watches.

Putting secondary values aside, I will be looking at collecting more APs, because the brand actually takes care of the customers directly. I can't imagine if my Rolex or Patek AD got pulled, and having to start over again.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by PreferHackingSeconds

Ironically for me, AP has been stellar in customer relationship. I'm four watches in, nothing crazy, just regular Royal Oak and Chrono, Offshore and Code. However they invited me to a local masterclass where we got to assemble a 4302 movement in a group of 8, supervised and taught by 3 watchmakers. I've been invited to more events more than any of the other brands I collect from.

They have also never encouraged me to buy anything I don't want. Call me a fanboy, but any AP to me is a nice AP and I am not asked to buy ladies jewellery or other Purchase with Purchase watches.

Putting secondary values aside, I will be looking at collecting more APs, because the brand actually takes care of the customers directly. I can't imagine if my Rolex or Patek AD got pulled, and having to start over again.

Bingo.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Bingo.

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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by dauster

.....

Let's not turn this into the same shitshow as e.g. the Reddit AP forum, please. It's one of the only places where one can still have the occasional enjoyable discussion among enthusiasts and actual "high value" clients.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Let's not turn this into the same shitshow as e.g. the Reddit AP forum, please. It's one of the only places where one can still have the occasional enjoyable discussion among enthusiasts and actual "high value" clients.

Well said

Factually speaking, AP here in the Uk do not ask/suggest that you ever buy X to get Y……thankfully.

[APhound]

I just went to a boutique and I said do you have anything cool in back
They brought out
Code minute repeater (incredible!) $400k
Code onyx tourb (incredible!)
Titanium concept (incredible!)
All really amazing pieces and available



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[Halothane]

Originally Posted by APhound

I just went to a boutique and I said do you have anything cool on back
They brought out
Code minute repeater (incredible!) $400k
Code onyx tourb (incredible!)
Titanium concept (incredible!)
All really amazing pieces and available


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That’s great! Which one did you buy?


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[APhound]

Originally Posted by Halothane

That’s great! Which one did you buy?


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I didn’t buy any but man they were incredible! I’m going to stay on my path with my nomad for now.. I love the concept and I really love the onyx tourb

I was at avi and co right before that and my dad and I both bought watches- he got the yellow and I got the rose
They had amazing inventory- lots of cool ap’s and Rm’s etc



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[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Let's not turn this into the same shitshow as e.g. the Reddit AP forum, please. It's one of the only places where one can still have the occasional enjoyable discussion among enthusiasts and actual "high value" clients.

The best way to ignore a broken record is to simply skip the post.

[Wolfie]

Originally Posted by Vivalas

Sorry Ash, didn’t see this. No bizarrely out of all my watches, my 15510 gets most wear. My favourite watch I’d say.

What makes you say the 15510 is your favorite watch over your jumbo? Very surprising to hear you wear it the most, even over the jumbo. Also what other watches do you have in your collection?

[Vivalas]

Originally Posted by Wolfie

What makes you say the 15510 is your favorite watch over your jumbo? Very surprising to hear you wear it the most, even over the jumbo. Also what other watches do you have in your collection?

Very simple really, I feel 41mm is the perfect size for me. I’ve other AP’s and Rolexes (Daytona, GMT’s skydweller) so spoilt for choice really. Don’t get me wrong, aesthetically the jumbo is perfect, but like the Daytona wears small on me, so the 15510 has ended up being my most worn.