Which Complicated Patek reigns supreme?

[Chief Chininki]

I currently have a 5270R, and thinking of moving a stainless steel nautilus, either 5712 or 5726. Would you trade a stainless Nautilus for a 5740, or would you trade for a 5204 or a 5970.

The 5204 is a bad ass and may have better proportions dial size than the 5270, however the case is thick… the 5970 is the best proportioned dial and case. Can either of these live with a 5270? Or am I better off getting the king of the nautilus?

[ts3]

If you got a 5970P the 5270R will become surplus. The same is true for both 5726 and 5712 if you got a 5740 IMO (and I like 5712/1A). Hard to beat 5970P and 5740/1G for a two watch collection.

If split second I'd rather get a 5004 or 5370 than a 5204 as I don't like the mini chin and the inverted moon phase.

[bp1000]

Trouble is how far up the chain do you want to go.

5208 or higher.

For the watches you see here posted,
It’s got to be the 5204 or maybe 5270.
Or the inline PC

5204 is just nuts. I love it. 5004 is loved but the proportions are a little odd.

5970 is always referred to as the best and having tried on a 5970r recently, like 2 weeks ago, having just dropped my 5270 in for service and also trying on a 3970 at the same time, I got to consider all three.

5970 is the sweet spot I admit that but I can say confidently you are not missing out owning any of them.

Each has their charm, 5270 has very interesting flared lugs and a modern vision. 5970, balance, 3970 classic charm.

I may own a 5970 at some point, price dependent but I will definitely own and I’m actively looking for a 3970. It’s got so much classic charm about it.

[Russell996]

If you are considering used then the 5370P is a huge bargain currently. Entry into Patek's high grand comps department starts with this piece, finishing is next level.

[77T]

The 5370P is sublime, and as a Daytona lover its movement is alluring, but for the price (despite being a depreciating asset), I'd prefer a more practical grand complication.

It's one thing to time steaks with a chrono (referring to another current thread on how people use Daytona) but for a quarter-million, I'd prefer a perpetual calendar myself.


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[GB-man]

If you’re keeping the 5270 I would go 5740. Quite the pairing. Otherwise I do indeed prefer the 5970. 5370 is simply gorgeous if you favor a split.

[Chief Chininki]

Originally Posted by ts3

If you got a 5970P the 5270R will become surplus. The same is true for both 5726 and 5712 if you got a 5740 IMO (and I like 5712/1A). Hard to beat 5970P and 5740/1G for a two watch collection.

If split second I'd rather get a 5004 or 5370 than a 5204 as I don't like the mini chin and the inverted moon phase.

As sh!t, I never noticed the chin until now, lol!… thanks for pointing that out… that may put it off my radar!

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Chief Chininki

I currently have a 5270R, and thinking of moving a stainless steel nautilus, either 5712 or 5726. Would you trade a stainless Nautilus for a 5740, or would you trade for a 5204 or a 5970.

The 5204 is a bad ass and may have better proportions dial size than the 5270, however the case is thick… the 5970 is the best proportioned dial and case. Can either of these live with a 5270? Or am I better off getting the king of the nautilus?

I have tremendous appreciation for the 240 movement PC
Combined with the ultra thin nautilus is hard to beat.
5204 is special, would be hard to let that go.

Not sure 5270 is a keeper for me with the modern off center subdials.

5970 is a beauty to look at but not sure it would see a lot of wrist time.

In the end, wrist time is the best indicator for me if a watch gets traded or not. My own collection has experienced the effects of this over and over.

[vitalsigns]

If I didn't mind the big price difference between the 5270 and 5970, then given your mix of considerations, I'd make my end goal:

5970
5712

I think both are legends and represent the best of what Patek does.

[subtona]

Ps reread .. short answer that 5726 would be gone in a flash toward the 5740!

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by 77T

The 5370P is sublime, and as a Daytona lover its movement is alluring, but for the price (despite being a depreciating asset), I'd prefer a more practical grand complication.

It's one thing to time steaks with a chrono (referring to another current thread on how people use Daytona) but for a quarter-million, I'd prefer a perpetual calendar myself.


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I guess if you don’t know the year or month the perpetual is much more practical.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Russell996

If you are considering used then the 5370P is a huge bargain currently. Entry into Patek's high grand comps department starts with this piece, finishing is next level.

I second this


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[Ichiran]

The 5316 reigns supreme.

[Daytonaman799]

5740…been trying to trade my 5712 and 5726 for a 5740 but I wanted to do it even up and had no luck. I would def upgrade the nautilus to a PC and I had a 5970 but it saw almost no wrist time. Depends on your taste and lifestyle but I think in the more casual world the 5740 has the potential to be a daily and 5270/5970 for those one off times.

[benzng]

Originally Posted by ts3

If you got a 5970P the 5270R will become surplus. The same is true for both 5726 and 5712 if you got a 5740 IMO (and I like 5712/1A). Hard to beat 5970P and 5740/1G for a two watch collection.

If split second I'd rather get a 5004 or 5370 than a 5204 as I don't like the mini chin and the inverted moon phase.

this is my sentiments as well

[FrançoisCzapek]

why would someone trade a steel 5712 or 5726, though, for a 5740 where Patek is limiting steel sport watch production?

[ChetBaker]

Because the 5740 is the more beautiful watch. I would do it were I in the position.

[FrançoisCzapek]

true, I'm a bit disoriented the 5740 was never available in steel

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

The 5316 reigns supreme.

All in a 40mm case. Impressive!!!

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by subtona

All in a 40mm case. Impressive!!!

I have handled this one at the Geneva Salon and boy, it left a deep impression. This will be an end piece for me.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I have handled this one at the Geneva Salon and boy, it left a deep impression. This will be an end piece for me.

Looking forward to the incoming for you :)

[Vasco]

Hey OP, this is an interesting question and implies to come down to what PP is about, aside of the disproportionate frenzie around releases lately. To truly understand PP, you have to know its history and go on the field to see them again and again (as other brands).

Your question approaches 2 things imho:
- Our personal educational path: the evolution of our aesthetical tastes, what we understand from technical aspects (mechanics) and finishing, what it costs, what the brand has been through. Did it take risks to provide more than necessary during downturns, who innovates (in a traditional field). Do you value miniaturization, an important aspect of watch making for a long while...

- The trends (not only the "fashion" matter): classical dressy watches for a long while, casual sport references more recently. Sizes evolve (subjective because of what we are used to seeing, bigger wrists, etc...). In 2000's early 2010's, only a very few valued the Aquanaut worthy of the brand. The Nautilus was another known "problem" for a long while. The 5070's size. The trends went from small calibers (because we were coming from pocket watches) to bigger ones (because people want it to fill the -sometimes bigger- case). I wonder even how going from plexiglass to glass went (during a time of much less material about watches to testify). Round or rectangular chrono pushers and so on... And the internet where everyone is an expert :)

Hence, the more as a collector/watch fan we discover, handle, experience with our eyes or readings, the more things don't remain still. It could be summed-up as "all but absolute certainty". What looks obvious in the short term isn't necessarily so on the long run.

What was true for a 50+ year old guy (more vintage, smaller size, plexi, patina) isn't necessarily for a new comer. I remember a time when 5070/5970 were the thing (early 2010's), vintage models in general but also the 5980/5711 a lot (I don't see 5980/1A pics anymore, neither I see the famous 5110P anymore), only a few wanted an Aquanaut or thought it was worthy of the brand. People didn't like the 5270 (or the 29-535 vs 27-70). Now I hear at least as much in good terms about them (even more) than 5970s. The 5170P was seen differently when it was launched than nowadays. Steel was underwhelming vs gold, then it went quite "recently" the other way round (less than 15 years ?). Colored gold vs white/Pt. Generational differences.

This to say that the answer to your question today may have a different answer in 5 years. Enjoy the trip and experience these watches at ADs/grey for a while. You may not find a definitive exit watch. You'll see the popular ones aren't necessarily the ones for you.

All the choices you mentioned are excellent, it depends on you. And often, we have to go for one even if it means selling it down the road while retaining something interesting about our tastes.

As mentioned above, the 5270 might be too close to the 5970. The 5204 (in 40mm) with the split-second display (limiting the drag while in action) is a more interesting piece technically and slightly from a movement finishing because of the additional complication, the 3rd pusher in the crown is a nice feature. But you have to value this, or it's just about aesthetics.

The 27-70 is a very interesting movement to get; excellent finishing or for what it represented in watchmaking for a long period of time.

The 5740G is a very elegant watch thanks to its thinness and smooth shapes, the 240 (even still today compared to many contenders), its micro-rotor, the energy consumption, accuracy, reliability, the QP, the way Patek deals with this Nautilus dial treatment (former Stern Frères making dials, hence plays with layers, this is a definitive difference with others)...

I'm afraid you'll have to choose one and then after a few months/years, you'll have your answer

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

The 5316 reigns supreme.

This.

[John Doyle]

I would dump the 5712 that's for sure.

[Ellz]

5316, 3939, 3970 early series, and 3940 are my wish list/grails #fingerscrossed #someday

[Calatrava r]

5204 is quite spectacular. It is a bit thick for me. I agree the 5270 would be the sweet spot for most people.

[pam66]

Originally Posted by 77T

The 5370P is sublime, and as a Daytona lover its movement is alluring, but for the price (despite being a depreciating asset), I'd prefer a more practical grand complication.

It's one thing to time steaks with a chrono (referring to another current thread on how people use Daytona) but for a quarter-million, I'd prefer a perpetual calendar myself.


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5320G egg-shell color and the new salmon inline are nice! also 5270P green has most of the design issues of the 5270 series eliminated. all three are available on the grey market at significant discounts.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by subtona

Looking forward to the incoming for you :)

I tried but this piece can't be my first MR, unfortunately. It's hard even for existing MR owners to apply for one, but thanks for your good wishes

[Murphtimes]

The 5740 would crown your collection as the ultimate Nautilus with sporty grand complication status. On the other hand, the 5204 offers a robust presence with its split-seconds chronograph, while the 5970 is celebrated for its classic proportions, making it a perfect partner to the 5270. If you’re aiming for balance in a Patek lineup, the 5204 or 5970 would add depth, but if you want the iconic Nautilus grail, the 5740 is hard to beat.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I tried but this piece can't be my first MR, unfortunately. It's hard even for existing MR owners to apply for one, but thanks for your good wishes

Have you considered getting a 5016. Same movement in a traditionally sized case with classic PP dial styling. I hear the weight and balance of this watch is perfect.