Is it misleading...

[R-Star]

I have noticed grey/resellers offering older (Rolex) watches with 'box and hangtag', when it appears (to me) the box is not the 'correct' box for the era of watch. So, I have to wonder where the 'newer' box comes from, are they legitimate extras they have laying around or are they 'aftermarket' Rolex boxes included to make you feel good you got a 'box and hangtag'. Not throwing shade, because the integrity of the watch is the most important thing. If the watch is legit, which I don't doubt that it is, who cares about the box? But stating it 'includes box and hangtag', to me, traditionally means the original owner kept up with the box and hangtag/case candy from the date of purchase from an AD, which infers a provenance. Or should it be stated, non-original box included. Or is this much ado about nothing? Curious to hear opinions, if you have one. Thank you

[OTX]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I have noticed grey/resellers offering older (Rolex) watches with 'box and hangtag', when it appears (to me) the box is not the 'correct' box for the era of watch. So, I have to wonder where the 'newer' box comes from, are they legitimate extras they have laying around or are they 'aftermarket' Rolex boxes included to make you feel good you got a 'box and hangtag'. Not throwing shade, because the integrity of the watch is the most important thing. If the watch is legit, which I don't doubt that it is, who cares about the box? But stating it 'includes box and hangtag', to me, traditionally means the original owner kept up with the box and hangtag/case candy from the date of purchase from an AD, which infers a provenance. Or should it be stated, non-original box included. Or is this much ado about nothing? Curious to hear opinions, if you have one. Thank you

That would be the least of my worries with grey dealers. Some are known to sell used watches that have been polished to new and sold as new and unworn. Don’t ask me how I know. More than one occasion too and these were highly rated dealers. Always buy from an AD if you can. As far as the boxes go, I would say it’s somewhat misleading as I would like to have the original box that came with it.

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by OTX

That would be the least of my worries with grey dealers. Some are known to sell used watches that have been polished to new and sold as new and unworn. Don’t ask me how I know. More than one occasion too and these were highly rated dealers. Always buy from an AD if you can. As far as the boxes go, I would say it’s somewhat misleading as I would like to have the original box that came with it.

I trust the sellers here more than I trust ADs

[Sergio_UKR]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

I trust the sellers here more than I trust ADs

That is rather weird statement. Why is that?


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[Calatrava r]

The better the condition of an older watch which lost it B&P, the more a used watch dealer will want to add a box if one is available to make the watch fetch a higher price. A box is always nice to have, although, I suspect nobody uses them and they are just stored separately. That may be why so many get misplaced.

[ArtNouveau]

Rolex watches don’t go out to their ADs in the “presentation box,” those are separate and have changed over the years. I keep mine but if buying a vintage Rolex, the box would not be important to me, only the condition and provenance.

[gamingdoctor]

Originally Posted by ArtNouveau

Rolex watches don’t go out to their ADs in the “presentation box,” those are separate and have changed over the years. I keep mine but if buying a vintage Rolex, the box would not be important to me, only the condition and provenance.

This is important to remember. The watches themselves are shipped in those plastic "coffins." The AD just puts them in the box, nothing special about the box in particular.

I don't think it's a big deal - but if you do you can definitely ask if the box is original.

[PenDelicate]

The box is the least of your worries.

Menta Watches is great for their honesty. Here's a fantastic clip of theirs from last year, where he explains that people need to be, "Educated," in that it's ok for a dealer to swap the dial of a vintage watch, as long as that dial is period-correct:

https://youtu.be/RZ1xHXMAyMQ?t=199

Selling watches that were never assembled by Rolex: feels a little ... off. I clearly need more education.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I have noticed grey/resellers offering older (Rolex) watches with 'box and hangtag', when it appears (to me) the box is not the 'correct' box for the era of watch. So, I have to wonder where the 'newer' box comes from, are they legitimate extras they have laying around or are they 'aftermarket' Rolex boxes included to make you feel good you got a 'box and hangtag'. Not throwing shade, because the integrity of the watch is the most important thing. If the watch is legit, which I don't doubt that it is, who cares about the box? But stating it 'includes box and hangtag', to me, traditionally means the original owner kept up with the box and hangtag/case candy from the date of purchase from an AD, which infers a provenance. Or should it be stated, non-original box included. Or is this much ado about nothing? Curious to hear opinions, if you have one. Thank you

Much Ado About Nothing, methinks.

By your own description they aren’t promising the original box and hang tag.

Buy the seller, not the box.

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

I trust the sellers here more than I trust ADs

[rohada]

Different schools of thought, but I'll share my experience and what I see. Box & papers, full sets, and complete sets cater to those buyers who desire such things, such as myself. For others, it does not, and that's fine, too. Typically, these additional things do result in a higher asking price (what they actually sell for is anyone's guess). The discriminating buyer who desires these correct trimmings is aware of what goes with what. You can peruse eBay and Chrono24 to educate yourself on what is correct from the factory and from the AD (who provides boxes and sleeves). I think throwing random boxes and manuals at it is more for the indiscriminate (novice to the hobby or fad following) buyer who connects such things with authenticity and it makes them feel better about the purchase and a potentially higher asking price. Just my observation. YMMV.

Very, very few "complete set" watches I see selling here, on eBay, or on Chrono24 are actually complete sets. Typically missing a few things (or wrong era manuals, tags, etc), so buyer beware and know what you are getting and what you are supposed to be getting, if such things mean anything to you. eBay is full of original Rolex paraphernalia should you need something period correct for your watch.

[SLWoodster]

A lot of the time, it is being matched, which is why you have to "buy the seller."

A few tidbits that make this whole thing more confusing:

Rolex sold boxes separately from the watches. So grey dealers can often get boxes from actual dealers. Authentic, real boxes.

Rolex ADs from the past were less mindful about which watches they were sending out with which boxes. So a lot of them went out with the wrong boxes.

Grey dealers could have purchased a box separately and hangtag separately.

Either could be fake.

But lots of grey dealers are legit and will also stand behind a box or tag they sold as fake unknowningly.

Originally Posted by R-Star

I have noticed grey/resellers offering older (Rolex) watches with 'box and hangtag', when it appears (to me) the box is not the 'correct' box for the era of watch. So, I have to wonder where the 'newer' box comes from, are they legitimate extras they have laying around or are they 'aftermarket' Rolex boxes included to make you feel good you got a 'box and hangtag'. Not throwing shade, because the integrity of the watch is the most important thing. If the watch is legit, which I don't doubt that it is, who cares about the box? But stating it 'includes box and hangtag', to me, traditionally means the original owner kept up with the box and hangtag/case candy from the date of purchase from an AD, which infers a provenance. Or should it be stated, non-original box included. Or is this much ado about nothing? Curious to hear opinions, if you have one. Thank you

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by 123Blueface

Yeah! Weird statement, there!

Kat


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[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by Sergio_UKR

That is rather weird statement. Why is that?


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The trusted sellers I have dealt with on here play no games, no gimmicks, don’t care about a relationship and have far superior product knowledge than at ADs

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

Yeah! Weird statement, there!

Kat


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An SA at an AD told me dismissively once they have nothing in stock. But with my thick skin and infectious personality I hung around the store and chatted some more, we found some common interests and once he let his guard down he admitted to me they have a blue sky dweller in the safe at the back but it was only to be offered to VVIPs and bundle deal scenarios

Another AD I visited the SA told me she was a Rolex expert and helped me with an explorer I wanted to buy. I asked her about the EasyLink and she said there is no such thing and only they can adjust a bracelet. I put the watch down carefully, thanked her for her time and walked out the store, called a trusted seller here and got my explorer with a nice discount

Have bought 2 other watches at an AD and those experiences were good enough but trusted sellers are the best

[Boopie]

I know it’s not necessarily the case, but I think it’s a fair inference that the average consumer should be able to make, that when a watch is sold with box and papers, it means the box and papers that accompanied the watch when it was new.

[espanol]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

An SA at an AD told me dismissively once they have nothing in stock. But with my thick skin and infectious personality I hung around the store and chatted some more, we found some common interests and once he let his guard down he admitted to me they have a blue sky dweller in the safe at the back but it was only to be offered to VVIPs and bundle deal scenarios

Another AD I visited the SA told me she was a Rolex expert and helped me with an explorer I wanted to buy. I asked her about the EasyLink and she said there is no such thing and only they can adjust a bracelet. I put the watch down carefully, thanked her for her time and walked out the store, called a trusted seller here and got my explorer with a nice discount

Have bought 2 other watches at an AD and those experiences were good enough but trusted sellers are the best

ADs are in the business to sell watches. They only receive X numbers of said watches per year, yet they receive many, many multiple requests for each watch they receive.

According to your point, if that AD said "hey, yeah we have a Blue Skydweller in stock in the back" then either two things would happen:
A) They would inform you that they've received hundreds of requests for this model
B) They'd offer it to you

If A), would that make you feel any better? How is the end result any different than just simply saying "we currently don't have anything else for sale?"

If B), how would this system possibly work? You got a watch you wanted, great. But again, ADs receive a finite supply of watches. Eventually, hundreds would be left out to dry not due to "games," but just a lack of supply. Basic supply and demand here guys and gals.

Final point, as noted above, ADs are here to sell watches and make money. In your eyes, would it be a poor business move to allocate the finite number of watches they receive to consistent customers and occasional first-time buyers? What type of strategy would you propose that would be better?

[Marcjvr]

Originally Posted by espanol

ADs are in the business to sell watches. They only receive X numbers of said watches per year, yet they receive many, many multiple requests for each watch they receive.

According to your point, if that AD said "hey, yeah we have a Blue Skydweller in stock in the back" then either two things would happen:
A) They would inform you that they've received hundreds of requests for this model
B) They'd offer it to you

If A), would that make you feel any better? How is the end result any different than just simply saying "we currently don't have anything else for sale?"

If B), how would this system possibly work? You got a watch you wanted, great. But again, ADs receive a finite supply of watches. Eventually, hundreds would be left out to dry not due to "games," but just a lack of supply. Basic supply and demand here guys and gals.

Final point, as noted above, ADs are here to sell watches and make money. In your eyes, would it be a poor business move to allocate the finite number of watches they receive to consistent customers and occasional first-time buyers? What type of strategy would you propose that would be better?

And that’s exactly why I trust the trusted sellers on here more than ADs

The answer to your last question has already been answered. Look up. Slightly more up than the the post you quoted

[Guppydriver]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

I trust the sellers here more than I trust ADs

Fair to a degree..

You (perhaps) can trust the words of certain trusted seller more than some SA’s….

But the an actual watch from an AD is always the most honest.

[PenDelicate]

Originally Posted by Marcjvr

And that’s exactly why I trust the trusted sellers on here more than ADs

The answer to your last question has already been answered. Look up. Slightly more up than the the post you quoted

Ah, thank you for that clarification.

I was thinking of you buying a Rolex from an AD and immediately taking it to a grey-market dealer to authenticate it :-D

[train-time]

Originally Posted by R-Star

I have noticed grey/resellers offering older (Rolex) watches with 'box and hangtag', when it appears (to me) the box is not the 'correct' box for the era of watch. So, I have to wonder where the 'newer' box comes from, are they legitimate extras they have laying around or are they 'aftermarket' Rolex boxes included to make you feel good you got a 'box and hangtag'. Not throwing shade, because the integrity of the watch is the most important thing. If the watch is legit, which I don't doubt that it is, who cares about the box? But stating it 'includes box and hangtag', to me, traditionally means the original owner kept up with the box and hangtag/case candy from the date of purchase from an AD, which infers a provenance. Or should it be stated, non-original box included. Or is this much ado about nothing? Curious to hear opinions, if you have one. Thank you

I really think anyone selling a pre-owned watch will find it easier to sell and most likely get a better price if they are listed for sale with a box, at the minimum so it's the buyer that would prefer a box and a tag and papers if they are available.

Not all people keep original boxes for things that they buy. Some throw them out and I have heard of instances where an AD sold a new watch, and the buyer didn't want the box. I knew of a guy who sold new Rolex watches at a large jewelry show in Miami and often they went to foreign tourists who wore the watch out of the show and didn't want the box. He had a ton of boxes and sold them on eBay.

[77T]

I'm on the side of "much ado about nothing" regarding the original box vs. any old box question that the OP posed.


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[brandrea]

I’ve been looking at 5 digit blro’s and prefer to find a full set with original box, papers, hang tags etc. I personally would pay more for an original complete set than one with a mismatched box

[worldofoyster]

the boxes are not made by rolex, you can buy them separately online