Why does Panerai has terrible resale value VS Omega/IWC?

[rmwill]

My 111 has held value extremely well. ETA movement.

Originally Posted by 2000-NJDEVILS

To the OP -
For seriously competitive watch collectors, Panarai is not even a consideration for many reasons. I will give you five of them:
A - Lack of pedigree
B - Lack of an In-House movement
C - Blatant Use of lower echelon, cheap, non- Chronometer grade ebauche’s
D - No refinement on the design of the dial ( not exactly an AP dial)
E - Stallone himself (He who single-handedly made Panarai into a very big brand) no longer is seen wearing any Panarai
Therefore no demand on the secondary market for a $300 watch that MSRPed for $8500 (and is now languishing in EBAY stores) other than younger, uninformed buyers….
Good Luck!

[Gerry62]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

If you like the watch what does it matter?

Other than Rolex and Patek, watch brands (like cars) lose value (definitely including IWC and Omega ). Each brand will have its exceptions….

In the end, buy what you love. It’s pretty simple.

A Luminor Bettarini case ref 000 / 005 / 111 / 112 /176 / 177 are my recommendation

5218/201 the first Panerai of the 90s for the civilian market and no longer just the military one

[rolexjackson]

I personally love the brand, I too have noticed that their pricing at retail is too much and the way to buy them is on the secondary market. I waited several years to purchase my carbotech sub, I had to wait for the one I wanted to come up used. Of course at the right price.


Life is short, buy the watch.

[Tzachi]

Originally Posted by Joearch

Simple, buy classic Panerai preowned from a trusted seller. Values for the classics have remained stable or above what they were 10 years ago.
233, 111, 000, 005, 372, 183, 210, 305, 112, 127 and many others.

The newer models are way too inflated in MSRP and has poor VFM and that is before considering the poor secondary market value .

[dannyboy123]

I had a 112 for ages and got a 510. I think both are really nice watches. I don't wear mine that much anymore but can't see myself selling it.

I'm actually quite keen on the 40mm Radiomir, but not at anywhere close to MRSP. Every time I visit a boutique I walk off somewhat underwhelmed, the watches almost feel a bit cheap/plasticy - which they aren't, but despite being on the hunt for 2-3 years havnever come close to pulling the trigger.

[SOG DIVER]

Interesting watches.
However, for an interesting larger watch, with an 18K rotor, 3 barrels, and incredible accuracy under the waves: there is the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms.

Excepting the rare slightly older references, the FiftyFathoms are also under-appreciated but really tough-as-titanium watches. Only vintage Rolex really appreciates like gold in a falling barometer watch market.

[Mystro]

The Paneristis are still strong and a great fraternity not looking at their watches to flex with so monetary value is not the theme of Panerai core owners. (how unbelievably refreshing)
The Panerai look is unique, comfortable to wear and very durable. Fit and finish is excellent so their preowned price point is an extra bargain.


I don’t think resale value matters that much because if it did no one would be buying jewelry in general. Most don’t look at a luxury watch purchase as a “investment”. They one watch and move on with their life so retail purchases are all they know.

For the watch enthusiasts, buying Panerai on the 2nd hand market is where it is at and you won’t lose money. In fact, my Panerai watches are worth more now than when I purchased them. The premium models like those with Carbotech and in-house movements are holding their value extremely well IF you purchase them wisely. They take their first hit and then maintain that price point very well.

In general Panerai is like Omega with offering way too many models and even a budget line. This is great for the consumer with more choices and variations but limits their initial trade in value. IMO, you have to buy up models in both brands to get the best models and best movements inside.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by xrole

You can still love a watch brand AND care about the resale value. To say that money doesn't matter is the height of snobbish arrogance and pretentiousness.

Oh my, those are not words I would use to describe my friend Cru at all … in fact quite the opposite

I don’t mean to put words in his mouth … I guess I’m going to anyway (), but I think what he meant was if you buy the watch because you love it and you don’t plan on selling it, you become less focused on value retention.

Put another way, I wonder how may people buy “x brand of watch” and never, ever pay any attention to what its “worth”? I bet there are many. The forums tend to skew our thinking on this topic me thinks.

I totally get your point, I do understand that value retention is a thing for many here on the forum. I’m just suggesting that perhaps for “normal” (if there is such a thing) watch buyers, value retention may not factor into a buying decision and they buy “X brand” because they just love the watch

[StanCho]

The fact that Panerai does not hold value for resale is great news, isn’t it? I got mine in mint condition with 7 yrs warranty remaining (meaning it was 1yr old) at 30% off from a bricks and mortar shop. Not great not terrible but I got my hearts desire and that is what matters most. Watches are anyway not a sane financial decision or topic.

BTW somebody counted Omega AT number of available iterations - 380.

[John Deaux]

Originally Posted by Manlodan

40-42mm watches are big, and 13mm is thick at the top end of that scale. A 44-47mm 15mm thick Panerai is gigantic.

I would have agreed with you until I bought a 968. It has been my daily for almost 2 years. It has ruined 40mm watches for me

[Bulldog72]

I think its a saturation issue. So many models that are so close in looks. Things tend to get lost in the fray. I still love them but understand they are what they are.

[Booth9999]

It’s a polarizing watch; you either like them or don’t. No maybe I can wear that…

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Omega and IWC are in the same boat as Panerai when it comes to resale on current new models. heck, go look at the blood bath on Pateks not named Nautilus or Aquanaut. or try selling a two tone Rolex sub, any yachtmaster, sea dweller, deep sea or ladies Rolex LOL!!

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by Joearch

Simple, buy classic Panerai preowned from a trusted seller. Values for the classics have remained stable or above what they were 10 years ago.
233, 111, 000, 005, 372, 183, 210, 305, 112, 127 and many others.

This is correct. Essentially, Panerai lost the plot after these mythical watches were released so they remain the center pieces of the Panerai renaissance prior to the ill management and eternal “limited editions”

[Mrngrz46]

An omega bought new even with 10 % discount lose a lot of his value. Same goes with iwc and panerai.

Those watch need to be bought from secondary market. Full stop

[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by Mrngrz46

An omega bought new even with 10 % discount lose a lot of his value. Same goes with iwc and panerai.

Those watch need to be bought from secondary market. Full stop

Agreed. I would never pay retail new for an omega or IWC. I’ll buy it new grey and save thousands.


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[Llamathurst]

The last couple of PAMs I bought (pam01111, pam1109, pam01294) felt like cheap crap compared to the ones I bought pre-2015.

Took a serious bath on resale. The brand has screwed it's customers too many times and is nowhere worth the price point. I won't be going back.

[Tzachi]

AS a Previous Paneristi with 50+ watches, I'm still a Paneristi, for the classic watch design and the mates. However, the company itself IMO is worse than the Hublot in the eye of Archi Luxury.

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Why does Panerai have terrible resale value?

They shot themselves in the foot.
They created too many limited additions, then creating another limited addition that closely resembled the previous limited edition, burning the buyers of the original.

Then they took the gun and shot themselves in the other foot with numerous movement scandals.
1 watch with a covered back and a completely raw, unfinished movement.
Claiming an in house movement and increasing the price accordingly when they were made by the parent company.
Removing the hacking seconds.
Pretty much trying cut costs where the shouldn't.

[Lesnerelli23]

From what I’ve read about the brand I wouldn’t consider paying retail for any current product.

I like their design language quite a lot but as mentioned earlier in the thread, there’s been a lot of misstepping over the last decade which puts me off.

That said, I also don’t understand why older models don’t have a higher value. I actually believe a few models might increase in the future, regardless of what the brand does presently. Kind of like Tudor, they drop in value instantly but vintage pieces are soaring!

Example: I have the PAM00048 without double checking I want to say mine is from 2006 maybe. On the back it tells you there were only 1000 made that year, compare that to 30,000+ sub dates per year, seems rather collectible. Also, the 40mm size is fantastic. It maintains that presence which the brand is famous for because the dial is huge, I want to say the dial alone is about the same size as the dial+bezel on my sub date. Combine that with the block case design and you have a bold look even at 40mm. However, while appearing HUGE, it actually has the same footprint as my sub. And, with the lugs that curve down, it fits beautifully!

An added bonus is that the movement can be serviced by any good local watchmaker since it’s pre “in house” era. I can’t think of a better “value” watch. Limited production, reasonable price, great fit while maintaining the brand “look”, robust quality, 300m WR, and easy to service.

Of note, my journey to this illustrates how I feel about the “value”;

I bought an Omega PO from the OB. I paid MSRP at the time and was given a discount equal to the sales tax, so $6500 out the door. I liked the watch a lot but for too many reasons I became sick of it and wanted to swap it out for something else. The market had absolutely tanked on those at the time and I could only get $3k for it…. OUCH! Well I took the hit and bought a Black Bay Pro in its place, I never felt good about this downgrade so I was always on the lookout for a good trade.

I then had the opportunity to trade the Tudor for this Panerai and I didn’t pause for a second. I saw that original retail was around $6k for this model so it felt like more of a parallel to the Omega. That made me feel much better about the bath I took on that! BUT It just felt more special than the BB Pro.

It’s been a year now and I can’t see ever letting this one go. I’m excited to see where the market goes on it even though I don’t plan to sell it —just interesting. Best of all my daughter loves to borrow it and I have 0 worries about anything happening to it.


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[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

If you like the watch what does it matter?

Other than Rolex and Patek, watch brands (like cars) lose value (definitely including IWC and Omega ). Each brand will have its exceptions….

In the end, buy what you love. It’s pretty simple.

Absolutely spot on, sir

Granny Van D used to say "buy what you love, love what you buy".

[321Forever]

I've got a 118F (Ti Luminor Marina, tobacco dial, non-sandwich) for 17 years. I still wear it in rotation. Every couple of years I go to the Panerai boutique and get a strap or two. Freshens it up a lot.

I could probably sell it for almost what I paid for it? I think the resale value is also impacted by the more recent research into the brand history that Perezcope did.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Joearch

Simple, buy classic Panerai preowned from a trusted seller. Values for the classics have remained stable or above what they were 10 years ago.
233, 111, 000, 005, 372, 183, 210, 305, 112, 127 and many others.

Solid! Yes

Older base models are fantastic. Great watches at great value.

Anything that says LE should only be purchased at a fire sale.

Originally Posted by brandrea

Panerai has such a unique design language.

Well said Brian. Authentic and historic design that will insure that panerai always has a place… even if they don’t perform in resale

[subtona]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Why does Panerai have terrible resale value?

They shot themselves in the foot.
They created too many limited additions, then creating another limited addition that closely resembled the previous limited edition, burning the buyers of the original.

Then they took the gun and shot themselves in the other foot with numerous movement scandals.
1 watch with a covered back and a completely raw, unfinished movement.
Claiming an in house movement and increasing the price accordingly when they were made by the parent company.
Removing the hacking seconds.
Pretty much trying cut costs where the shouldn't.

Let’s not forget reducing water resistance and adding snap on case backs.

Originally Posted by Trogster

What does Panerai have to do to turn things around?

Is it even possible after so many unforced errors?

Do they even care about watch enthusiasts anymore.... or are they quickly becoming a fashion brand?

Pie in the sky…
🌌 Become an independent watchmaker again run by a family that values the history over the bottom dollar.

Clarify their brand and mission.

commit to melting down any watch with less than 300m water resistance.

Discontinue most of their models and Reissue the classics as production models.

[321Forever]

Originally Posted by subtona

Let’s not forget reducing water resistance and adding snap on case backs.




Pie in the sky…
🌌 Become an independent watchmaker again run by a family that values the history over the bottom dollar.

Clarify their brand and mission.

commit to melting down any watch with less than 300m water resistance.

Discontinue most of their models and Reissue the classics as production models.

One can dream...

If only these things could happen.

[chrissimons]

"commit to melting down any watch with less than 300m water resistance."