unfairness in the Rolex world

[RogerF]

once again another insulting comment from TZ has sparked this. I am SpeedstateG35C over there (Speedstate being the company I used to own but have sold, in case you were wondering)

Earlier this year in HK my mom was offered SS Daytonas at a discount, the reason being that the person that she was brought into the store by spends millions a year there for both personal and as bonuses for ppl in their company. Because of the large amounts this person spends there obviously the owner of the store will do anything to please them so when the SS daytona was brought up they were more than happy to sell them (my mom really) right away, when asked about a discount the owner was still ok with it.


Now this is the part that gets to me, ppl who spend millions and dont even care about the watch (referring to my mom's friend of course) can get it any time they want and even for a discount. Whereas many ppl like us who want this watch and will be willing to pay full list price for it cant get it without waiting forever.

In other words, in this market one has to buy all sorts of diamonds, rubies, emeralds, AP, Chopard, Breguet, Vacheron watches just to get a Rolex?

This is even true in the US, while some ppl are on waiting lists for years, there are some that can call up their AD and get one in a matter of weeks sometimes less. Again simply because of the money they have spent there on non-Rolex items. Couple of guys on TZ got more than one at list (who knows maybe less) from an AD once the fat hand model came out.

I really wish there was a way for me to get one from there through my mom's friend but by the time we pay taxes on it it would be worse than buying one at an inflated price from a grey market dealer. Damn Cdn import taxes.



Whats your take on this?

and yes I know that the world is not fair, and not much Rolex can do about it since once it is sold to their ADs it then becomes property of the AD and other than selling above MSRP the AD can sell to whom ever they want and however they want to sell it to them (eg. as part of a $500K purchase etc).

Originally Posted by RogerF

once again another insulting comment from TZ has sparked this. I am SpeedstateG35C over there (Speedstate being the company I used to own but have sold, in case you were wondering)

Earlier this year in HK my mom was offered SS Daytonas at a discount, the reason being that the person that she was brought into the store by spends millions a year there for both personal and as bonuses for ppl in their company. Because of the large amounts this person spends there obviously the owner of the store will do anything to please them so when the SS daytona was brought up they were more than happy to sell them (my mom really) right away, when asked about a discount the owner was still ok with it.


Now this is the part that gets to me, ppl who spend millions and dont even care about the watch (referring to my mom's friend of course) can get it any time they want and even for a discount. Whereas many ppl like us who want this watch and will be willing to pay full list price for it cant get it without waiting forever.

In other words, in this market one has to buy all sorts of diamonds, rubies, emeralds, AP, Chopard, Breguet, Vacheron watches just to get a Rolex?

This is even true in the US, while some ppl are on waiting lists for years, there are some that can call up their AD and get one in a matter of weeks sometimes less. Again simply because of the money they have spent there on non-Rolex items. Couple of guys on TZ got more than one at list (who knows maybe less) from an AD once the fat hand model came out.

I really wish there was a way for me to get one from there through my mom's friend but by the time we pay taxes on it it would be worse than buying one at an inflated price from a grey market dealer. Damn Cdn import taxes.



Whats your take on this?

and yes I know that the world is not fair, and not much Rolex can do about it since once it is sold to their ADs it then becomes property of the AD and other than selling above MSRP the AD can sell to whom ever they want and however they want to sell it to them (eg. as part of a $500K purchase etc).

Roger this has been a sore point for me for years and it sucks.

But if a watch is bought in HK and worn back, all those taxes can be circumvented. A buddy of mine did that with his Sub, and he had even packed the boxes deep in his luggage.

Otherwise, I know a place in Toronto where they usually have one SS Daytona in stock at all times, often two. But you'll be paying CDN$2500 over list for it.

BTW, I used to LOVE the SS Daytona. Now I wouldn't want one even if I had the money and one was offered. I don't want to partake in the shenanigans played by Rolex, their ADs and the shilling ba$tards who flip them on the gray market.

[MathewJ]

I agree, it is sad and upsetting that stores work this way...capitalism at its finest I guess but truly different from the Rolex of the 50s, 60s and 70s where most who wanted one and could afford it had access...now with status and image being a big part of their business it looks better to have elusive models like the Daytona ...

In my perfect world Rolex would ramp up production of popular models so that everyone could have them that wanted them and cut back on the less popular models, but this isn't a perfect world...

I am on the list and my dealer said two years but I doubt I will ever get that call as all I have ever purchased from them was my Sub.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by MathewJ

In my perfect world Rolex would ramp up production of popular models so that everyone could have them that wanted them and cut back on the less popular models, but this isn't a perfect world...

Welcome back Mathew mate, very true words,its not a perfect world.

[JJ Irani]

Yep guys...money does seem to TALK!!!

[molex]

Sorta on the fence about this one, really... the watch enthusiast in me naturally cries foul that a corporate buyer would be able to get a sought-after item quite easily while others who really cherish it can't get it without considerable trial.

However... I also understand the dealer's perspective here, which certainly must be that everyone wants this model, so there's no way they can provide this desired watch to anyone who wants it, much less be the arbitors of "fair play" and see to it that only "true watch lovers" get one when it comes in. These guys are in *business*, so of course their criteria for choosing who gets one of these watches is financially driven.

Look at it this way: If Joe Shmo who really loves and wants a Daytona walks in a gets one, what does the dealer get? One sale. When millionare Joe comes in and spends hundreds of K, then asks for a Daytona and he gets it, what does the dealer get? Another XX months of hundreds of K coming his way.

Believe me, I am NO fan of Rolex dealers, they stink IMO. But, they're businessmen, not watch enthusiasts, so I can see why they do it.

Just *another* reason I couldn't give a fart in a wind storm about a Daytona... besides the obvious fact that it's a totally mediocre looking watch

[maverick]

Yep, money talks, walks. Like the old saying goes, "Life is like a $hit sandwitch, the more bread you have, the less $hit you have to eat. =) maverick

[dman]

Another sad but true way Rolex has us by the short and curlies.

[MathewJ]

What molex mentioned is interesting...

I mean do most here blame Rolex for this or the Dealers? Personally I would put more blame on Rolex for not adequately supplying the market with a desired product than a dealer for "rewarding" a valued customer....

If I were a dealer I can honestly say that while I wouldn't like what I was going from a moral standpoint I might be inclined to do the same..that is unless I had a strict waiting list period which is something I personally might do but can understand those who wouldn't adhere to it for special and valued customers.

Originally Posted by MathewJ

What molex mentioned is interesting...

I mean do most here blame Rolex for this or the Dealers? Personally I would put more blame on Rolex for not adequately supplying the market with a desired product than a dealer for "rewarding" a valued customer....

If I were a dealer I can honestly say that while I wouldn't like what I was going from a moral standpoint I might be inclined to do the same..that is unless I had a strict waiting list period which is something I personally might do but can understand those who wouldn't adhere to it for special and valued customers.

But this is the brilliance of Rolex marketing. They make the supply so small, and build the hype to mythic proportions, such that people will either wait on a list for a few years and then be over the moon 'their number came up' or will go to a grey dealer and pay thousands over asking.

That my friends, is absolutely genius marketing. It totally sucks from an average guy's POV, but such is life.

[MathewJ]

Originally Posted by Atomic

But this is the brilliance of Rolex marketing. They make the supply so small, and build the hype to mythic proportions, such that people will either wait on a list for a few years and then be over the moon 'their number came up' or will go to a grey dealer and pay thousands over asking.

That my friends, is absolutely genius marketing. It totally sucks from an average guy's POV, but such is life.

I agree 100% Atomic, from Rolex perspective it is great, from a Dealer perspective I am sure it is also good though I wonder if many truly care as they would rather just sell you a watch.

Originally Posted by MathewJ

I agree 100% Atomic, from Rolex perspective it is great, from a Dealer perspective I am sure it is also good though I wonder if many truly care as they would rather just sell you a watch.

Sadly, most AD sales staff know nothing about the products they sell beyond which ones have gold and which ones have diamonds on them. They want to move product, and if an AD decides he's only going to make SS Daytonas available to those who spend significantly on other items in his store, it's his perogative, but it's totally unfair in terms of first come, first served. However, I have heard of stores that do have a FCFS policy, but they're few and far between.

Rolex is also to blame for keeping the SS Daytona supply small, letting them trickle out in tiny numbers when they know they could sell everyone of them, if in regular, say Submariner-type, numbers. But they don't, they perpetuate the myth and the problem.

[MathewJ]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Rolex is also to blame for keeping the SS Daytona supply small, letting them trickle out in tiny numbers when they know they could sell everyone of them, if in regular, say Submariner-type, numbers. But they don't, they perpetuate the myth and the problem.

That beg the question though for how long...I am sure intitally Rolex could move every Daytona out the door if they upped production to SS Sub level but what about long term? if Daytonas were readily available to any and all who wanted them do you think that their popularity would maintain? personally I feel the big draw with that piece is its "rarity"...even as that many complain about the lack of a date feature on that watch.

Originally Posted by MathewJ

That beg the question though for how long...I am sure intitally Rolex could move every Daytona out the door if they upped production to SS Sub level but what about long term? if Daytonas were readily available to any and all who wanted them do you think that their popularity would maintain? personally I feel the big draw with that piece is its "rarity"...even as that many complain about the lack of a date feature on that watch.

Agreed, but that's the thing. Back in the 70s, Rolex couldn't give the SS Daytonas away. Dealers discounted them big time as they often sat in display cases for months if not years, when you could pick up a SS Daytona for about US$300-800. Then I believe they stopped production for a while and suddenly collectors started to grab them up (in Europe, Italy specifically) and when Rolex re-released the Daytona, it was during the 80s, when the yuppie was king and Rolex pricing when up exponentially. Since then, they have perpetuated the myth.

I think if Daytonas were produced in larger numbers, Rolex would still sell every one of them because there is a demand. However, the market would hit critical mass because chronographs only appeal to a certain percentage of the mechanical watch buying public.

The SS Daytona isn't so much a good automatic chrono as it is a display piece to show that you've either waited a long time on a list, or you've personally paid off your AD's mortgage and this is your 'reward'.

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by RogerF

once again another insulting comment from TZ has sparked this. I am SpeedstateG35C over there (Speedstate being the company I used to own but have sold, in case you were wondering)

Let me tell you my own little story. I don’t care about any of the unfairness anymore, I left it behind me a long time ago, it wastes a lot of energy. In my job, I also buy all the computer related stuff for my company. The head office has struck a deal with one of the largest PC manufacturers in the world (US based) so we buy almost all our PC’s and servers from them. Over a year ago, something went wrong with one of our servers and after that, everything that could go wrong with the repair, did. They completely fouled up. After a long talk with one of their senior account managers the air was cleared and he offered us a two day, all expense paid, trip to their Irish factory. We only had to wait for a slot. Months passed by, so I decided to make a call. Ah, yes, the trip…. You have to wait for a slot, I’m afraid. A year went by and I asked if I could have a talk with him. Ah, the trip, errrr, yes. To be honest, you ARE on the list but if a very promising prospect enters the scene, they go to the top of the list! WHAT??????!!!!!! I told him in polite words to STUFF that trip in a dark hole.

Now I can see the parade of couriers passing by with all kind of end-of-year gifts for members of our Commercial department, the management, etc. All I get (if we are lucky) are mass produced (pre-printed) Christmas cards from suppliers. This is how it works guys, it seems unfair but all these things come with the territory.

The same applies to three star restaurants with huge waiting lists (in my country we have 3 of those restaurants): if you belong to ‘the inner circle’, there’s no problem to get a table. And last but not least: all those TV and movie ‘stars’, famous footballers, ‘happy few’, etc., and not exactly strapped for cash are: a. asked for very lucrative commercials and endorsements, and b: get a lot of the stuff for free!

I'm just posting so the highlighted thread you don't see has 'porno' in the title line.