Replica/Fake/Homage/?

[Mr. K]

I'm in Japan. I see a lot of watches here that are copies of Rolex watches. No two ways about it, they are made to look like Rolex models in every way except .... they do not say Rolex. They have a different brand name on them.

A fake is a watch that says Rolex, and is not one.

But what do you consider these other watches? I have heard them referred to as Homage watches. I'm not talking Invicta, but watches that are even more precise replications of the Rolex style.

A fake is trying to dupe people into thinking it is a real Rolex. But is that not what these homage watches are trying to do too? Or maybe people like the style and don't want to spend the money or a Rolex. But when you buy a Rolex, on the outside (not the movement), are you not paying a large part for the Rolex design?

I would not wear a homage watch as I think I would try to save up for the real thing, but that is just me.

Wondering what other member's thoughts are on the matter. Are these watches legit because they don't actually say Rolex on them? Or are they riding on the brand recognition that Rolex built?

Home sick today and just some random thoughts in my fevered state.

[JJ Irani]

They are definitely riding on the brand image built up by Rolex. But to say that the Rolex on the outisde is not what the movement is on the inside is totally incorrect, Mark.

A Rolex is a Rolex...you get the quality of a high class Oyster case built with so many different operations and tests...a superb dial...sapphire crystal and WG hands and markers. All these make up a Rolex and the overall outlook of a Rolex can never be matched by any of these so called 'homage' watches.

So when you wear a Rolex, it's NOT just the Rolex crown you've paid big $$$ for....there's also a lot of quality and assurance behind it.

JJ

[C.J.]

I never understood the whole fake Rolex thing. I mean, the whole purpose of owning a Rolex, is just that , owning a Rolex, not a cheap watch that looks like one.
We pay thousands of dollars, not to show how much watch we can afford, but for the pride of owning such a rich piece of history. A mechanical work of art that has achieved amazing accomplishments in its deeply rooted past.
There are lots of watches out there that look a lot more expensive than most of the oyster professional line that costs half as much. So, if these people are wearing FAKES for reasons along those lines so be it, but They are just not getting the whole Rolex thing. More importantly their missing out on the pride that accompanies owning one of the best watches ever made, as well as, the ability to appreciate the craftsmanship of the piece and what it stands for.

[JJ Irani]

Very well said, CJ!!

[Mr. K]

JJ and CJ,

Very true.

[C.J.]

Thanks. I have my moments. They're few and far between anymore, but I still have a few

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by C.J.

Thanks. I have my moments. They're few and far between anymore, but I still have a few

...but then we are talking quality, pal....QUALITY!!

[padi56]

You could say the same thing about Rolex,the Blancpain 50 Fathoms tested in 1952, the first Rolex sub prototype 1953 Wonder if Rolex got there Idea for the Sub,from the Blancpain,they are very similar.In my book homage are fine with me, but Fakes made to deceive buyers into thinking they are buying genuine watches.Now these scum need to be hung drawn and quartered very slowly.

[rls77bronc]

CJ,

I agree, I have never understood the fake Rolex fad or any fake name brand product.

My wife has a collection of Louis Vuitton purses, which cost dearly and it makes me mad to see the fakes out there...I you can spot them.

Kids in walmart walking around with a LC purses, kids 12 to 16 years old, walking around witha $1200 purse....

[Goodwatch]

Originally Posted by padi56

You could say the same thing about Rolex,the Blancpain 50 Fathoms tested in 1952, the first Rolex sub prototype 1953 Wonder if Rolex got there Idea for the Sub,from the Blancpain,they are very similar.In my book homage are fine with me, but Fakes made to deceive buyers into thinking they are buying genuine watches.Now these scum need to be hung drawn and quartered very slowly.

That's a very nice watch Peter, is it yours? One of my favourites!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Goodwatch

That's a very nice watch Peter, is it yours? One of my favourites!

Unfortunately not Frans thats the very first production model,they are quite rare now.Yes agree a fine very tough watch in its day.

[Mr. K]

Originally Posted by padi56

You could say the same thing about Rolex,the Blancpain 50 Fathoms tested in 1952, the first Rolex sub prototype 1953 Wonder if Rolex got there Idea for the Sub,from the Blancpain,they are very similar.In my book homage are fine with me, but Fakes made to deceive buyers into thinking they are buying genuine watches.Now these scum need to be hung drawn and quartered very slowly.

The 50 fathoms watch does look like the sub. But maybe my point was not clear. If the 50 fathoms watch was very sought after, then Rolex cloned the 50 fathoms watch look, put their name on it and sold it for 1/100 of the cost, then that would be the comparison I'm trying to get at.

I'm talking about watches that are blatent design copies sold cheaply.

But I guess my curiosity was satisfied earlier in the thread. You can get a Rolex looking watch for 1/100 the price, but you won't get the same quality. And when it comes down to it, when you want high quality, there are no shortcuts, in material things, in sports, in studies, in life.

Padi makes the point I love to make... the Sub is a direct design rip-off of the Whitebread 50 F. Is the Rolex an hommage? No. Is it passing itself as a fake? NO.

Hans Wilsdorf build the foundation of Rolex on innovation, yes... but also on scooping outstanding ideas and designs and buying them outright and marketing them as Rolex products. However, in the case of the 50F, it's a pure design rip-off... and since Rolex was (particularly then) bigger than Blancpain, the ubiquitous design was immediately associated with Rolex.

That's why I get a big laugh when Rolex snobs harp on about Seiko or others ripping off the design of the Rolex Sub.

[Rockrolex]

Originally Posted by Atomic

Padi makes the point I love to make... the Sub is a direct design rip-off of the Whitebread 50 F. Is the Rolex an hommage? No. Is it passing itself as a fake? NO.

I have to take some issue with you on the "design rip-off" comment, John. There are only so many ways to design a round watch face. I don't see the Sub as any more of a design rip off than most other faces. The BP has numbers, the Sub uses round markers. The numbering on the bezel is not the same; the minute hands are similar, but not the hour hands or the second hands.

Sorry, John, I don't see the rip off at all.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

I have to take some issue with you on the "design rip-off" comment, John. There are only so many ways to design a round watch face. I don't see the Sub as any more of a design rip off than most other faces. The BP has numbers, the Sub uses round markers. The numbering on the bezel is not the same; the minute hands are similar, but not the hour hands or the second hands.

Sorry, John, I don't see the rip off at all.

But the first 1953 Sub is very very similar to the Blancpain
50 Fathoms,and the first models had plain stick hands,and
not the Mercedes in picture, these were a little later.

[Rockrolex]

Originally Posted by padi56

But the first 1953 Sub is very very similar to the Blancpain 50 Fathoms,and the first models had plain stick hands,and not the Mercedes in picture, these were a little later.

OK, there are a number of similarities. But again, we can pick out differences as well. And Rolex was not trying to pass off the Sub as a BP. And they've moved even further away from that design with the modern Sub.

[Clifton]

[Rant On]

Fake, knock offs, homage watches, whatever these little Asian companies want to call it, it is still a trademark infringement against Rolex. PERIOD!

Look at it this way – if Honda made a Replica Porsche 911 and put a Honda badge on it and a Honda power plant, do you think Porsche attorneys would let that fly. Or if Lexus/Toyota carbon copied a BMW 3 series down to the kidney grill and only changed the motor and the badge would that be okay? Hell no and they would be slapped with a cease and desist order faster than I can drink a beer.

A so called homage watch is intended to allow its wearer to deceive others into thinking they are wearing something they are not. Just like big diamond earrings made a glass, homage watches are nothing more than costume jewelry.

If the Asian companies pumping out this knock off dung would focus more on innovation and design in lieu of copying and coat tailing off of others, they may actually get lucky and create a memorable and popular design of their own.

[/Rant off]

Originally Posted by Rockrolex

OK, there are a number of similarities. But again, we can pick out differences as well. And Rolex was not trying to pass off the Sub as a BP. And they've moved even further away from that design with the modern Sub.

Yes but Ed, remember... before the 50F, no one had ever designed a dive watch that looked anything remotely like the 50F. Naturally there are differences between the 50F and the sub, or perhaps Rolex would have lost any design patents/infringements, etc., in court. But when you consider that the 50F was a ground breaking design, and a year or two later Rolex comes out with the Sub as pictured by Peter (thanks for digging that up, mate), you can see it's quite an hommage to Blancpain, which is the original, rotating bezel dive watch.

[Mr. K]

Originally Posted by Clifton

[Rant On]

Fake, knock offs, homage watches, whatever these little Asian companies want to call it, it is still a trademark infringement against Rolex. PERIOD!

Look at it this way – if Honda made a Replica Porsche 911 and put a Honda badge on it and a Honda power plant, do you think Porsche attorneys would let that fly. Or if Lexus/Toyota carbon copied a BMW 3 series down to the kidney grill and only changed the motor and the badge would that be okay? Hell no and they would be slapped with a cease and desist order faster than I can drink a beer.

A so called homage watch is intended to allow its wearer to deceive others into thinking they are wearing something they are not. Just like big diamond earrings made a glass, homage watches are nothing more than costume jewelry.

If the Asian companies pumping out this knock off dung would focus more on innovation and design in lieu of copying and coat tailing off of others, they may actually get lucky and create a memorable and popular design of their own.

[/Rant off]

Clifton,

Yup, that is what I was getting at.

Does that mean you are a Rolex snob too?

[C.J.]

Originally Posted by Mr. K

The 50 fathoms watch does look like the sub. But maybe my point was not clear. If the 50 fathoms watch was very sought after, then Rolex cloned the 50 fathoms watch look, put their name on it and sold it for 1/100 of the cost, then that would be the comparison I'm trying to get at.

I'm talking about watches that are blatent design copies sold cheaply.

But I guess my curiosity was satisfied earlier in the thread. You can get a Rolex looking watch for 1/100 the price, but you won't get the same quality. And when it comes down to it, when you want high quality, there are no shortcuts, in material things, in sports, in studies, in life.

How very true. Well said

[bogey]

i'm not sure about this but i think the "copies" are classified into 2 categories: the 1st, we know as "fakes", or those which are passed off as the real thing imitating the brand and design, and the 2nd are called "clones" of which the designs are similar sometimes to the minute detail while using a different brand name . Generally, clones are usually of better craftsmanship and quality than fakes cause they actually are still a legitimate company . well, i just used the terminology that is used on tennis and badminton rackets....

i do not get the whole fake thing either... for the money on the fake might as well get a real watch made by a legitimate watch company and it will last you much longer... then again, it depends on what your reasons are for getting the watch...