Rolex 1680 dial/serial number combinations

[Gina Marie]

I have a mark iv red 1680 serial number 2.38mm purchased in the US. I have read the red sub bible written by Mark whereby he offers that the mark iv should start at 2.45 million. I have asked other folks on the forum and been told that 2.45 is about right. How much variation is acceptable? Some claim that the mark iv in my watch must be a service dial. However my watch was sold in 1974.....if it required a service dial why would they use a mark iv and not something much later produced like a mark v or even the rare red service Swiss dial?

I have reviewed the rolex serial number project whereby the first ff red was at 2.35mm. I have seen lots of posts here by members with mark iv dials in 2.36mm watches. So could my dial be original to my watch? Could the fact that Rolex was trying to cater to a growing US market lead them to use the ff earlier than anticipated in the US? Much like Porsche....there never seems to be a correct answer with Rolex. Thoughts from those that know much more?

[descartes]

I have a Red Sub very close to yours-- 2,36M serial number-- with a Mark IV dial.
I bought it from a very well known vintage dealer who opined that the dial was one which was used during the overlap period when both Mark IV dials, and the last of the earlier dials, were being cased at the same time. The VRF case numbers project, and anecdotal evidence like your post @bjmcfp, appear to support this because there are certainly examples of Mark IV dials in cases which are earlier than the 2,45M referred to in mark's article. Still, it is hard to know for sure because there are few examples during the overlap period and originality is hard to verify.

I know there have been mixed views posted in this forum on this topic, and it is certainly possible that dials could have been replaced early on with a Mark IV dial (before the Mark V and VI dials went into production). Imagine, for example, a Mark II or III dial turning tropical (not necessarily considered desirable at the time) and the owner having it replaced with a service dial (which at the time was Mark IV because that is the dial which was currently in production).

In the interest of scholarship, it would be very interesting to see who else has a Red Sub with a case number lower than 2.45 which has a Mark IV dial. We could develop a catalogue which could help put finer point on the 2.45M figure used by Mark (which he himself admitted was only an estimated range). Given the rising popularity of Red Subs, this may be of value to people on the hunt for a Red Sub to help consider originality of a watch.

Here's a photo of my Red Sub.

[wallasey runner]

As you say, Mark admitted that it was an estimated range and Rolex have never issued anything definitive. Yours sounds close enough. I had a 1665 SD mark 1 which was slightly out of range of what the people who know suggested was the range, but it was still a mark 1 dial.

Your idea of some sort of database would be helpful, could we have pages two and three for 1665 DRSDs and Great Whites, which share the same issues of multiple dials over a number of years.

[Gina Marie]

Here is my darling....2.38, original finish, with papers....a real beauty.

[southtexas]

Very nice! There's a good index of red subs with serials over at VRF (the dial archive?). Poke around over there and see where yours fits in "serial-wise".

[TimeToGo]

You can also check here:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=225667

[southtexas]

^^very true lots of examples in that thread.


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