So Basically Scalper are Prevenying You From Getting the Rolex You Want?

[Likestheshiny]

I hate the fact that flippers get the chance to buy the watches at MSRP and genuine buyers like us have to hunt high and low to get that specific one that we love. I'm still looking hard for my first Rolex watch.

They don't, or at least not the bulk-buying flippers that actually make a difference. When an AD sell to the commercial-level flippers, they're either splitting the markup or they're making the flipper buy a pile of less-desirable watches as well (which amounts to raising the price). ADs aren't stupid.

And the individual-level flippers who often do actually pay retail price aren't the ones causing the problem. They either have to spend a ton of money to build an AD relationship (just like you do) or they have to get very lucky (just like you do). They don't have any unfair advantage -- they're buying in the same market you are.

[kzm40]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Very common knowledge these days.

ADs sell to Grays
Grays sell to customers with massive markup.

Artificially created bubble and hype - perfect cartel behavior which is actually illegal in some countries and industries. LOL

They also give bigger discounts on unpopular models than AD's would give.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by jrh1524

Let me get this straight, grey dealers are acting like scalpers and buying up most of the rolexes and reselling them at significant markup? Rolex is cool with this?

Don't forget, plenty of VIPs are buying watches at retail and immediately selling to grey dealers for profit. When you see the never ending stock of Daytonas and BLROs for sale at crazy premiums, my guess is that more than half have come from regular customers that flipped.

No pun intended, but there are a lot of grey areas to this. It's not always black and white. I'm not trying to defend anyone but a lot go these sellers have been in the business of selling watches for years, maybe decades. They were there selling watches at huge discounts when the market called for it and they're here now selling at huge premiums.

What would make people feel better about the situation? That these sellers close up shop and stop selling watches, just so true enthusiasts could have better odds at getting the watch they want? That makes no sense. And at the end of the day, as I mentioned, a significant amount of their inventory comes from VIPs that flip. In those cased, the bulk of the money is already made by the original buyer.

Let's say a grey dealer buys a Daytona from a private seller for $18k and sells it for $20k. They're making a couple grand. They're not robbing anyone, and frankly even if they were trying to sell it for $30k, we're not talking about selling bread in the time of famine, water in a drought or shelter during a natural disaster. It's business, and a luxury business at that.

So when you ask if there's a single moving part that's preventing YOU from getting the watch you want? The answer is no, there are a lot of factors involved.

[Syed117]

May have been said before, but...

Rolex is preventing me from getting the watch I want.

Not "scalpers" and not my AD.

We can come up with excuses and point our collective fingers at gray dealers, but the simple fact is that demand isn't being met. That's fine and I understand the strategy, but it gets to a point where it is excessive.

I am by no means a big spender at my AD. Have gotten 4 watches (3 Rolex and 1 Tudor) from them in the last 3 years or so. That's nothing and I know that. I've been on "the list" for a BLRO since Basel last year and I honestly don't think I'll ever get one.

I don't blame my AD for not being able to get me one because I understand that they simply don't get enough for someone like me to have one. It's a business and they have to keep the high spenders happy. I don't blame the gray dealers for the few dozen that may have been sold by the really big dealers.

I blame Rolex.

I am by no means saying that they should produce way more and flood the market, but there is a middle ground. A repeat customer, even one who has only bought a few watches should be able to place an order and get one within a year.

[Chadridv]

Originally Posted by Syed117

May have been said before, but...

Rolex is preventing me from getting the watch I want.

Not "scalpers" and not my AD.

We can come up with excuses and point our collective fingers at gray dealers, but the simple fact is that demand isn't being met. That's fine and I understand the strategy, but it gets to a point where it is excessive.

I am by no means a big spender at my AD. Have gotten 4 watches (3 Rolex and 1 Tudor) from them in the last 3 years or so. That's nothing and I know that. I've been on "the list" for a BLRO since Basel last year and I honestly don't think I'll ever get one.

I don't blame my AD for not being able to get me one because I understand that they simply don't get enough for someone like me to have one. It's a business and they have to keep the high spenders happy. I don't blame the gray dealers for the few dozen that may have been sold by the really big dealers.

I blame Rolex.

I am by no means saying that they should produce way more and flood the market, but there is a middle ground. A repeat customer, even one who has only bought a few watches should be able to place an order and get one within a year.

I think this is a yes and no.

as of about 5 months back, one of my ADs (about 3-4 stores in this chain) had 5 LVCs in their inventory (obviously not one in the displays). I tried to buy one for my dad and was turned down.

I think every AD is different, and when an AD tells you they haven’t seen a Hulk in a year they may very well be telling you the truth, but they may be lying too. Chances are every AD has watches in the safe that are unavailable for sale. They’re clearly holding them back for VIPs which I believe to be the instructions given to them from Rolex.

So it’s not always easy to determine who is to blame.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Syed117

May have been said before, but...

Rolex is preventing me from getting the watch I want.

Not "scalpers" and not my AD.

We can come up with excuses and point our collective fingers at gray dealers, but the simple fact is that demand isn't being met. That's fine and I understand the strategy, but it gets to a point where it is excessive.

I am by no means a big spender at my AD. Have gotten 4 watches (3 Rolex and 1 Tudor) from them in the last 3 years or so. That's nothing and I know that. I've been on "the list" for a BLRO since Basel last year and I honestly don't think I'll ever get one.

I don't blame my AD for not being able to get me one because I understand that they simply don't get enough for someone like me to have one. It's a business and they have to keep the high spenders happy. I don't blame the gray dealers for the few dozen that may have been sold by the really big dealers.

I blame Rolex.

I am by no means saying that they should produce way more and flood the market, but there is a middle ground. A repeat customer, even one who has only bought a few watches should be able to place an order and get one within a year.

There's no point blaming Rolex for not adjusting when this thing is now Global and huge. When it was just in the UK, we were all crying out for some supply increase or adjustment to help balance out a market that had overnight turned upside down after the shock of Brexit, but even then they did nothing.

You would think that an enormous event like Brexit, which is arguably the greatest constitutional change any major economy has seen in many decades, would warrant special dispensation from Rolex's very undynamic unwavering policies but no, even just for one relatively small country, they made no allowances, they just ploughed on regardless and relentless.

[Esoteric]

I spoke with an AD several years ago, about 6 months after the 116500 Daytona was launched. He told me that Greys regularly approached him and offered to purchase his Entire Stock so long as they got the in-demand watches (Daytonas, BLNR's etc.)

[csaltphoto]

We'd be crying even louder if Rolex ramped up production to meet demand and let quality slip... THAT would kill the brand faster than anything.

[ajas]

Originally Posted by Fat_ninja

Speak for youself... i got the rolex i want.

BAM!!!

Congrats. it is great watch

[007timer]

Originally Posted by toxicavenger

You are correct. And AD's sell them knowing this. The AD's get a cut while the scalper inflates the cost.

That’s ridiculous. Those participating should lose their licenses to sell Rolex.


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[007timer]

Originally Posted by illiguy

Anyone read the Michael Lewis book "Flash Boys" or, otherwise, familiar with high-frequency trading (HFT)? The long and the short of it is, some will argue grey dealers add "liquidity" (i.e., hard to find at AD watches) to those of us here at TRF and elsewhere. At the same time, opponents of grey dealers would argue they're not so much adding liquidity, but taking it and up-charging for personal gain.

This is akin to HFT where those with fastest connection to a trading center could get the best transaction prices. The greys essentially have the shortest wire to getting the desired watches. The "heroes" in Michael Lewis' book made sure that everyone had the same length of cable so that everyone could get to the desired trading center (or, in this instance, Rolex) on fair terms and at the same time.

Consider me mixed on the whole thing. I've bought from trusted sellers here with good experience, but I certainly would have preferred to have gone through an AD at MSRP with warranty in my name, etc.

HFT on watches, trades, cars, etc but lately Rolex has gotten a little out of control.


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[007timer]

Originally Posted by Shamorai

It should be law that no current, in production model can be sold above the manufacturer’s recommended retail price. This would stop scalping immediately and would apply to all goods.

What will that do to the current model pre-owned market?


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