32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by BruRol

The pictures of excessive wear that were posted waaaay back in this thread suggested a materials issue. Probably from a bad batch of components that went into many watches and are likely difficult to trace. They simply need to be removed from circulation when / if the watches hit an AD for service. This will likely take decades.

Over the space of 6 years?

That makes zero sense from a production perspective. You don't dip in and out of a batch of components over that length of time when you are producing that many movements.

Also, you can build an engine from the best forged steel moving parts. You can balance those moving parts to perfection. Use the best bearing material known to man and have it run on the perfect map.

You starve it of oil, however, and it will self destruct the same as any other.

It also doesn't explain those watches that come back from RSC and develop the same fault again.

[fmc000]

Originally Posted by Omarion07

https://youtu.be/stEk78O7ZxE

Rolex has just posted this on YouTube. Their "predicting the unpredictable" hasn't been on point so far. Hopefully they have this issue fixed by now.

"It is by observing, understanding and reproducing all these behaviours in our laboratory that we are able to guarantee that our timepieces move impeccably, no matter how the wrist it adorns does."

Am I the only one that finds this hilarious?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by fmc000

"It is by observing, understanding and reproducing all these behaviours in our laboratory that we are able to guarantee that our timepieces move impeccably, no matter how the wrist it adorns does."

Am I the only one that finds this hilarious?

No Fabio, you are not alone

Here is the full marketing text:

Precision is not just a matter of watchmaking mechanics. Equally, it involves human “mechanics”. Beyond the design, manufacture of all watch parts, our superlative precision stems from a fine grasp of those who wear our product. They come in many different forms, with subtle particularities. But whether they are sedate or sprightly, whether they wear it loose or fitted, whether they are desk-bound or inclined to face nature’s extremes, their variable activity is a science we strive to master. From the outset, we have continually honed each and every one of our crafts in order to accommodate the movement of any wrist. Whether it be a rigorous one, moving to the pace of the everyday, or one that is still and calm, the watch must endure them all, no matter the position. It is by observing, understanding and reproducing all these behaviours in our laboratory that we are able to guarantee that our timepieces move impeccably, no matter how the wrist it adorns does. Hence why “predicting the unpredictable” has always been the guiding principle of our perpetual quest for precision. Discover more https://on.rolex.com/3Zvd02r #Rolex #Watchmaking #Perpetual

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Some very interesting analysis throughout this thread; thank you.

Might it be that having multiple 32xx watches increases the probability of each individual one developing the fault, rather than just owning one and wearing it each day? In the latter case the watch would remain wound so reduced chance of the lubricants migrating (if indeed that is one reason).

Obviously, my assumption is that those not worn are allowed to run down and not kept fully charged on a winder.

I was suspicious of the same thing and just passed two years of continuous operation of my BLRO on wrist or winder.

I plan to leave my two 32xx running 24/7 and send to RSC at 50 months or so to try to qualify for a free service due to low amplitude.

My DJ41 was perfect until I let it sit unused for a month. Then it kept -15 spd and the date wheel jammed up only clearing after running through the days a couple times. I can't restate how insane this is considering how good and reliable a COSC ETA 2892-A2 is.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Some very interesting analysis throughout this thread; thank you.
Thanks.
Might it be that having multiple 32xx watches increases the probability of each individual one developing the fault, rather than just owning one and wearing it each day?
Yes, I think so.
In the latter case the watch would remain wound so reduced chance of the lubricants migrating (if indeed that is one reason).
Maybe, though I don't have a sound understanding (yet) about the migration of lubricants inside mechanical watch movements, especially the difference between running and stopped calibers. Many different parameters will play a role, including temperature.
Obviously, my assumption is that those not worn are allowed to run down and not kept fully charged on a winder.
Yes

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Mountain

Might it be that having multiple 32xx watches increases the probability of each individual one developing the fault, rather than just owning one and wearing it each day?
Yes, I think so but want to add: even if you have 'only' one 32xx, and wear it daily, I expect the movement will develop the issue(s) at some time before the end of the 5-year warranty period.

As I posted before:
I have NOT even seen 1 (one) contribution on TRF where a member has shown (with data) that his 32xx watch keeps (or kept) high movement amplitudes (after full winding) together with good timekeeping over a period of 5 years, i.e., starting from the date of purchase and without any RSC repair or regulation* of the 32xx movement.


*It is clear that a movement regulation does NOT cure the caliber issue(s).

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by saxo3

As I posted before:
I have NOT even seen 1 (one) contribution on TRF where a member has shown (with data) that his 32xx watch keeps (or kept) high movement amplitudes (after full winding) together with good timekeeping over a period of 5 years, i.e., starting from the date of purchase and without any RSC repair or regulation* of the 32xx movement.


*It is clear that a movement regulation does NOT cure the caliber issue(s).

Several times I have thought that we should all start a friendly pool of beer/coffee money to incent one of these "I have 6 of these things and they are all perfect" owners to take their whole lineup to a watchmaker and simply check the amplitude and timing on each one. To be a good candidate for this experiment, the owner should have at least 4 32xx watches which are a minimum of 2-3 years old IMO. (Although I have already seen reports of low amplitude on, for example, the new Explorer 36 which was only released 1.5 years ago.)

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Several times I have thought that we should all start a friendly pool of beer/coffee money to incent one of these "I have 6 of these things and they are all perfect" owners to take their whole lineup to a watchmaker and simply check the amplitude and timing on each one. To be a good candidate for this experiment, the owner should have at least 4 32xx watches which are a minimum of 2-3 years old IMO. (Although I have already seen reports of low amplitude on, for example, the new Explorer 36 which was only released 1.5 years ago.)

Good idea, first we invite SpongeBob from the Sunshine State.

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Several times I have thought that we should all start a friendly pool of beer/coffee money to incent one of these "I have 6 of these things and they are all perfect" owners to take their whole lineup to a watchmaker and simply check the amplitude and timing on each one. To be a good candidate for this experiment, the owner should have at least 4 32xx watches which are a minimum of 2-3 years old IMO. (Although I have already seen reports of low amplitude on, for example, the new Explorer 36 which was only released 1.5 years ago.)

Probably be easier to pitch in for a group timegrapher and ship it to the owners of multiples of these watches.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

Probably be easier to pitch in for a group timegrapher and ship it to the owners of multiples of these watches.

I thought of that as well. I just wasn't sure if someone with a large collection would have reservations about giving out their home address. But if there any large 32xx collection owners who are interested, PM me. I'll send you my timegrapher to use in the convenience of your own home and I'll make a short video showing you how to use it. It's very simple. If multiple people are interested, we can send it along from person to person.

Worst case scenario I get pranked and a box of dog poop comes back my way in 3 months. But these are the risks we take for data collection

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

I thought of that as well. I just wasn't sure if someone with a large collection would have reservations about giving out their home address. But if there any large 32xx collection owners who are interested, PM me. I'll send you my timegrapher to use in the convenience of your own home and I'll make a short video showing you how to use it. It's very simple. If multiple people are interested, we can send it along from person to person.

Worst case scenario I get pranked and a box of dog poop comes back my way in 3 months. But these are the risks we take for data collection

Can always use FedEx and hold at location I think. If they need a real address in addition to HAL use work address.

[CMAGS84]

Just received a timegrapher for my DJ36 that I purchased new from my AD in February, 2022.

These number are after a full wind. Not sure what to make of these… Depending on activity, usually see anywhere from -2.5 to +1 spd.








Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by CMAGS84

Just received a timegrapher for my DJ36 that I purchased new from my AD in February, 2022.

These number are after a full wind. Not sure what to make of these… Depending on activity, usually see anywhere from -2.5 to +1 spd.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Definitely on the low side. Let it sit dial up (i.e. don't wear it) for 24 hours then measure it again. Amplitude should be > 200 in all positions after 24 hours. You are almost down to 200 at full wind, so I'm guessing it will fall below.

[swexlin]

I have that Weishi 1000, and for the life of me (and the instructions are crap) figure out how to change amplitude from the default 52 to 53. Anyone know how?

[msum]

Sorry for the derail, but any thoughts about the 22xx movements with Si hairsprings?

I wonder if I can pull off a 34mm OP, although 36mm is more my speed…

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by swexlin

I have that Weishi 1000, and for the life of me (and the instructions are crap) figure out how to change amplitude from the default 52 to 53. Anyone know how?

Push the setting/sound button to toggle through the options, once you have highlighted the amplitude menu use the up arrow button (I believe).

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

Probably be easier to pitch in for a group timegrapher and ship it to the owners of multiples of these watches.

A timeshare timegrapher…..I like it.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by swexlin

I have that Weishi 1000, and for the life of me (and the instructions are crap) figure out how to change amplitude from the default 52 to 53. Anyone know how?

Exact steps:

Press start/stop button, red light comes on...
Hit menu/speaker button, menu appears...
Hit menu/speaker button again, Lift Angle is highlighted
Hit up arrrow 10x to go from 52.0 to 53.0
Hit start/stop button, red light goes out, measuring begins

[CedCraig]

Originally Posted by saxo3

No Fabio, you are not alone

Here is the full marketing text:

Precision is not just a matter of watchmaking mechanics. Equally, it involves human “mechanics”. Beyond the design, manufacture of all watch parts, our superlative precision stems from a fine grasp of those who wear our product. They come in many different forms, with subtle particularities. But whether they are sedate or sprightly, whether they wear it loose or fitted, whether they are desk-bound or inclined to face nature’s extremes, their variable activity is a science we strive to master. From the outset, we have continually honed each and every one of our crafts in order to accommodate the movement of any wrist. Whether it be a rigorous one, moving to the pace of the everyday, or one that is still and calm, the watch must endure them all, no matter the position. It is by observing, understanding and reproducing all these behaviours in our laboratory that we are able to guarantee that our timepieces move impeccably, no matter how the wrist it adorns does. Hence why “predicting the unpredictable” has always been the guiding principle of our perpetual quest for precision. Discover more https://on.rolex.com/3Zvd02r #Rolex #Watchmaking #Perpetual

Well, this sure defies excellence. How could Rolex ever get “a fine grasp of those who wear our product.”? I contend that a huge percentage of Rolex watches sold these days aren’t even worn. Maybe the verbiage was translated from Swiss-French to Swiss-German and finally to English.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by saxo3

As I posted before:
I have NOT even seen 1 (one) contribution on TRF where a member has shown (with data) that his 32xx watch keeps (or kept) high movement amplitudes (after full winding) together with good timekeeping over a period of 5 years, i.e., starting from the date of purchase and without any RSC repair or regulation* of the 32xx movement.


*It is clear that a movement regulation does NOT cure the caliber issue(s).

I suppose it could be that people only buy a timeographer and start collecting data once their watch(es) develops a problem?

I can only speak for myself, having one 32xx watch, an explorer:: until it started running slow, I was completely unaware of this issue. I came across this forum and thread searching Rolex warranty!

It’s been fixed now, but I’ll be buying a timeographer shortly …

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CMAGS84

Just received a timegrapher for my DJ36 that I purchased new from my AD in February, 2022.

These number are after a full wind. Not sure what to make of these… Depending on activity, usually see anywhere from -2.5 to +1 spd.

As one can see from your data, your only 14 months old watch has the 32xx issue(s).

Amplitude values (after full winding) are too low, especially for all vertical positions.

Expected numbers are:
DU-DD: 260-280 degrees; 9U-6U-3U: 230-240 degrees

Repeat the measurement after full winding but turn the watch by 180 degrees (crown in contact with the timegrapher microphone).

Then do what HiBoost suggested in post #3883.

Your DJ36 movement issue is hidden because you still see a good timekeeping (-2.5 to + 1 s/d) on your wrist. It is only a question of time when amplitudes will decrease further and bad timekeeping will become visible on your wrist.

[swexlin]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Exact steps:

Press start/stop button, red light comes on...
Hit menu/speaker button, menu appears...
Hit menu/speaker button again, Lift Angle is highlighted
Hit up arrrow 10x to go from 52.0 to 53.0
Hit start/stop button, red light goes out, measuring begins

Thank you, that worked. Certainly not explained well in the manual.

[p808]

Hi, I'm new here. I found this thread from a search as I was looking to see if anyone was having the same problem. My Submariner is a year and half old and is losing 12 seconds per day being worn most days, constantly on wrist. My modern Omegas and Tudors, Seikos and Citizens have never had this kind of problem. The exception was an early 2005 Planet Ocean that had to be sent back multiple times for co-axial movement issues. It seems Rolex has found themselves in the exact same situation with their 32xx series. It seems like no one has taken this issue to social media. Is that to protect the investment?

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by p808

Hi, I'm new here. I found this thread from a search as I was looking to see if anyone was having the same problem. My Submariner is a year and half old and is losing 12 seconds per day being worn most days, constantly on wrist. My modern Omegas and Tudors, Seikos and Citizens have never had this kind of problem. The exception was an early 2005 Planet Ocean that had to be sent back multiple times for co-axial movement issues. It seems Rolex has found themselves in the exact same situation with their 32xx series. It seems like no one has taken this issue to social media. Is that to protect the investment?

Boom. It's happening.

Welcome. Glad you found us

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by p808

Hi, I'm new here. I found this thread from a search as I was looking to see if anyone was having the same problem. My Submariner is a year and half old and is losing 12 seconds per day being worn most days, constantly on wrist. My modern Omegas and Tudors, Seikos and Citizens have never had this kind of problem. The exception was an early 2005 Planet Ocean that had to be sent back multiple times for co-axial movement issues. It seems Rolex has found themselves in the exact same situation with their 32xx series. It seems like no one has taken this issue to social media. Is that to protect the investment?

Welcome.
Please read the very first post to understand what the objective of this thread is.
We are not discussing investment or social media here!

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by p808

Hi, I'm new here. I found this thread from a search as I was looking to see if anyone was having the same problem. My Submariner is a year and half old and is losing 12 seconds per day being worn most days, constantly on wrist. My modern Omegas and Tudors, Seikos and Citizens have never had this kind of problem. The exception was an early 2005 Planet Ocean that had to be sent back multiple times for co-axial movement issues. It seems Rolex has found themselves in the exact same situation with their 32xx series. It seems like no one has taken this issue to social media. Is that to protect the investment?

Sorry to hear about your troubles. I think the reason you don't see this being discussed in a lot of other places - so far - is because:

1) These watches are very good at maintaining their timekeeping even when the amplitude is much lower than it should be

2) The vast majority of owners (of any watch model/brand) will never check the amplitude on any watch they own (it's a win these days if people even set the time )

3) Many (most?) of the 32xx watches have likely been sold in the last few years. The movement has been out since 2015, yes, but initially it was just the Day-Date and then in 2016 the Datejust. It has slowly worked its way into other models over time (first hit the GMT in 2018, and the Submariner in 2020, and the Explorer in 2021). So it's only within the last few years that nearly all Rolex models have this caliber. And, most 32xx can make it "a few years" before the amplitude problem gets bad enough to notice.

I predict, unfortunately, that we are catching the beginning of the tsunami right now. Over the next 2-3 years, the number of 32xx movements that are 3-5 years old will grow massively, and I think the problem reports will grow in proportion. We've already seen this topic begin to be mentioned outside of technical circles, in online watch media sites and on youtube channels. It's only a matter of time...

Which, in my mind, is all good news. The more people that talk about this, the more pressure there is on Rolex to fix it. I look forward to the day when they do. Until then I'm caught in this purgatory where I can't fully enjoy my favorite brand.

[HiBoost]

A bit of a different perspective on this topic...

I spent the morning chatting with an independent watchmaker about his results with the 32xx movements. To be honest, I didn't realize that there were many (any?) independent watchmakers who would even work on these movements so I was curious to speak with him. He said over the years he has serviced more than 50 32xx movements. He hasn't had a single one come back after his service (some of those were serviced as far back as 2018).

What I found particularly interesting is that the ones that come in do show low amplitudes as we've all reported, but, he says when he's done servicing them he typically sees around 290 dial up and 260+ crown down (and I confirmed he uses a 53 lift angle). That is very strong compared to what we typically see from the factory or RSC. He says the movement is dead simple to work on and overall feels it is almost as robust as the 31xx. The planned obsolescence elements are definitely present, but he also says he is able to service the mainspring barrel without issues (he had custom tooling made to do so). He's found one flaw related to the crown wheel post that he sees quite often, but apparently has an easy fix for it.

I realize most people with a newer watch who are having troubles are going to want to leverage their warranty instead of paying out of pocket with a 3rd party. On the other hand, if a solid repair could be done to increase peace of mind and not have to go back-and-forth to RSC, surely that is worth something to a lot of us.

I have no affiliation and to be clear I have not done any business with him. But we had a good chat and he was very willing to talk about the movement. I don't know what the rules are about putting a phone number in a post, but if anybody is interested in inquiring, you should be able to find him by googling "In Time Miami Corp". His name is Walter and he's a 3rd generation watchmaker.

[DG123]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

I predict, unfortunately, that we are catching the beginning of the tsunami right now. Over the next 2-3 years, the number of 32xx movements that are 3-5 years old will grow massively, and I think the problem reports will grow in proportion.
Which, in my mind, is all good news. The more people that talk about this, the more pressure there is on Rolex to fix it. I look forward to the day when they do. Until then I'm caught in this purgatory where I can't fully enjoy my favorite brand.

In the OP you proclaimed that this thread is for "real data", yet it seems now that you've decided to wear the hat of whistle blower and, or the leader of fear mongering. That's fine, you have a right to write whatever content you want to do.
However, I ask have you considered that newcomers to the brand, or perhaps someone planning to buy their son or daughter an upcoming graduation gift, might read your "predictions" and choose to not buy a Rolex ? That due to your crusade here some people might not ever get the enjoyment you've had owning and wearing a Rolex watch ?

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by DG123

In the OP you proclaimed that this thread is for "real data", yet it seems now that you've decided to wear the hat of whistle blower and, or the leader of fear mongering. That's fine, you have a right to write whatever content you want to do.
However, I ask have you considered that newcomers to the brand, or perhaps someone planning to buy their son or daughter an upcoming graduation gift, might read your "predictions" and choose to not buy a Rolex ? That due to your crusade here some people might not ever get the enjoyment you've had owning and wearing a Rolex watch ?

This is really something. Wild guess - was this output by ChatGPT? First of all, a "fear mongering crusade" is a ridiculous label for what any of us are doing here. In the same post you quoted I referred to Rolex as my favorite brand. And not an hour ago I posted an update about a watchmaker who says he has had great luck servicing this movement and thinks the quality is good. To me that is a ray of hope for those of us who own these and are grappling with the idea that even Rolex doesn't know how to fix them - per a Rolex employee (another crusader?), not me. Me posting these things directly goes against the narrative that I'm trying to blindly trash the brand/movement any way possible, no?

Furthermore, think about how ridiculous your assertion is... what if I've denied someone else the enjoyment that I've had? What?? To the contrary, I would be horrified if a friend or family member bought a Rolex on my recommendation and gave it as a gift only to have it become the headache that mine has become. Please explain to me what enjoyment I've had spending $15k on a watch that is outperformed by a $200 Seiko.

Your comment is so out in left field it makes me question what your motives are. This goes way beyond garden variety trolling. Why is it that you would desire a potential shopper to not have any idea that these issues are out there? What possible benefit could there be to that?

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

This is really something. Wild guess - was this output by ChatGPT? First of all, a "fear mongering crusade" is a ridiculous label for what any of us are doing here. In the same post you quoted I referred to Rolex as my favorite brand. And not an hour ago I posted an update about a watchmaker who says he has had great luck servicing this movement and thinks the quality is good. To me that is a ray of hope for those of us who own these and are grappling with the idea that even Rolex doesn't know how to fix them - per a Rolex employee (another crusader?), not me. Me posting these things directly goes against the narrative that I'm trying to blindly trash the brand/movement any way possible, no?

Furthermore, think about how ridiculous your assertion is... what if I've denied someone else the enjoyment that I've had? What?? To the contrary, I would be horrified if a friend or family member bought a Rolex on my recommendation and gave it as a gift only to have it become the headache that mine has become. Please explain to me what enjoyment I've had spending $15k on a watch that is outperformed by a $200 Seiko.

Your comment is so out in left field it makes me question what your motives are. This goes way beyond garden variety trolling. Why is it that you would desire a potential shopper to not have any idea that these issues are out there? What possible benefit could there be to that?

He's off the charts weird. Ignore him. Left field is exactly where you'll find him based on those recycled over dramatized talking points.

Check this one out from the other 32xx thread.

Originally Posted by DG123

Sadly, for some people I expect threads like this one have that negative effect.
The originator (s) of this thread claim that it is for "fact finding" and, or "data collection". Presumably they believe that collecting this information will somehow provoke Rolex to do something.
The reality is that Rolex is a $9 billion annual sales corporation employing dozens of product design engineers , hundreds of skilled technicians, highly experienced service department operations etc. And throughout the world there are hundreds of Authorized Dealers. So, like any multi billion dollar company, Rolex is consistently receiving information about its products from several well established sources.
TRF is filled with stories of how wearing a Rolex has brought joy to people; in fact it's one of the best aspects of this forum. Now it is sad that fear mongering might cause some to avoid the brand. I believe in the right of free speech but also know that sometimes invoking that right can cause harm to others.