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View Poll Results: Does your 32xx movement seem to be 100% ok? | |||
Yes, no issues |
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1,040 | 69.85% |
No, amplitude is low (below 200) but timekeeping is still fine |
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61 | 4.10% |
No, amplitude is low (below 200) and timekeeping is off (>5 s/d) |
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388 | 26.06% |
Voters: 1489. You may not vote on this poll |
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#391 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,819
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#392 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: East Sussex U
Posts: 1,351
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I bet not....what has struck me is how similarly they perform. Rolex do make consistent products, in my opinion. I do greatly enjoy the SD43, but have become disloyal and bought a Yachtmaster 42. The shame of it....
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#393 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Real Name: Michael
Location: Kuwait
Watch: Daytona SS White
Posts: 494
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I took mine into the local service center this morning. They put it on their machine and told me it needs a “complete service”. So now I have a 35 day wait. Let’s hope they incorporate all the latest upgrades/oiling.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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116520 Daytona white, 116500 Daytona black, 126600 SD, Speedmaster Pro, 116710BLNR GMT II, Speedmaster trilogy 57, Breitling Navitimer A23322, Seiko SKX007J, Seiko Mini turtle PADI, Seiko 5 Sport Diver. |
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#394 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2020
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Posts: 2,819
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Quote:
A "complete service" of a GMT-Master II 126710 (3185) after 2 year + 7 months. Purchase date (26.06.2018) to today (30.01.2021) Did you ask them what is wrong? Do they know what to do? Do they have instructions from Geneva? Is this the first 3285 they receive back early after purchase? "Local service center" is a Rolex one? Will be very interesting if you can do Amplitude/Rate/Beat Errors vs. Time measurements after the service. Please share the data here. Cheers |
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#395 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: .
Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs
Posts: 12,609
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Quote:
Quote:
The oil isnt the problem. Hope its gets fixed for good ! ![]() |
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#396 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,819
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Quote:
A question of terminology? The first two interventions were regulations The third one is a full service, which is different for me because they will completely dismantle the caliber, which is not done if you only regulate. But Michael N Q8 should know better. |
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#397 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: .
Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs
Posts: 12,609
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Quote:
Also,consider the lack of joy for the owner going to and fro to the service centre and the waiting periods' inconveniences . ..AND this on one of the most sought after Rolex references . |
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#398 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,819
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Quote:
Have the same "of the most sought after Rolex references" which is unworn but already a bit sick (see graph in post #317) |
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#399 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jan 2021
Real Name: Lenny
Location: Belfast
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 114
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So there are allegedly 83 people on the forum who both own, and understand how a timing machine works? Remarkable.
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#400 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Real Name: Michael
Location: Kuwait
Watch: Daytona SS White
Posts: 494
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I asked the customer service guy what was wrong but he didn’t expand. He did mumble something about new movements but no indication that this was a common problem.
This is the official service centre for kuwait. As noted before, I have had it regulated twice before and now this is the first time that it’s clear that there is a problem. I got the following receipt from them. ![]() Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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116520 Daytona white, 116500 Daytona black, 126600 SD, Speedmaster Pro, 116710BLNR GMT II, Speedmaster trilogy 57, Breitling Navitimer A23322, Seiko SKX007J, Seiko Mini turtle PADI, Seiko 5 Sport Diver. |
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#401 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Real Name: Vic
Location: Spain
Watch: SD43
Posts: 6,065
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Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for sharing your experience and good luck. |
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#402 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: World citizen
Posts: 59
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32xx movement problem poll and data thread
Hi. I have a 126610Lv since two weeks ago.
+5 or +6sg delay every 24h (dial up inside the box). If I am wearing the watch the performance is much better -1sg in 12 hours. Any suggestions? Should I bring it back to Rolex? Thanks!! |
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#403 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: .
Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs
Posts: 12,609
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#404 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Real Name: Brad
Location: Purdue
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 9,237
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Quote:
Agreed, that's exactly my point in reference to the 3 times slower post. As an engineer myself I see a lot of misinterpreted specs. Misunderstanding of the Rolex +\- 2 is abound here.
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#405 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: World citizen
Posts: 59
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#406 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: .
Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs
Posts: 12,609
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#407 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,526
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Quote:
On the topic, I found this article quite interesting as it highlights some of the measures that manufacturers take to improve precision. They even mention how Rolex machines its springs (in batches of 3 to 4 million) from a single block of alloy to guarantee that they all have the same physical properties which allows for consistency in the adjustment process. This further confirms to me what some of us have been saying, that Rolex does take the precision aspect of time keeping seriously, and are not simply attempting to produce trendy jewelry. https://watchesbysjx.com/2020/10/pre...materials.html |
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#408 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Real Name: Brad
Location: Purdue
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 9,237
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Quote:
That's correct ![]() Precision is all arrows going through the same hole. Accuracy is all arrows going through the bullseye. Many members seem to expect all 6 positions to be inside the 2 seconds box. 2, 4, -6, 4, 5, 3 is actually in spec to give an example As is: -5, -4, -3, -2, -1, +3 In the case of my 114060 the latter was close and it was rather annoying and could be adjusted for wearing habits gratis at the AD.
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#409 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,819
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Quote:
Accuracy refers to how close measurements are to the "true" value. Precision refers to how close measurements are to each other. Quote:
That is already a big misunderstanding. Your listed number (or rate) sequence: I understand your calculations, but both examples are incorrect. The 12U position rate must not be taken into account; it is also not used by Rolex. Instead, one has to add all rates of positions DU, 6U, 9U, 3U, DD, and then divide by 5. The topic Accuracy and Precision merits another thread. Please, let's not get lost in this data thread! |
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#410 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2019
Real Name: Brad
Location: Purdue
Watch: Daytona
Posts: 9,237
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32xx movement problem poll and data thread
Quote:
Oops, should have used a 5 number example that averaged to 2. I'm not sure Hi Boost said anything wrong RE precision. He understands that precision is repeatability and accuracy is centering that precision at zero.
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#411 | |
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Quote:
I may have misunderstood this sentence, sorry no bad intention! Let me explain it as follows: If you perform many measurements (n= 50, 100, 200,...) in the same watch position, with the same instrument, under identical conditions, then one will find a distribution of measurement data (e.g. Gaussian), one calculates the average vale of these data (n = 50, 100, 200,...), which is the accuracy. The standard deviation of this distribution (1 sigma value) is the precision. Hence your watch can be quite inaccurate but very precise, and all other possible combinations. In all Rolex documents I know, they specify the precision and never the accuracy. This misunderstanding results in the -2/+2 sec/day saga. Rolex movement specifications are in this sense misleading for the "normal" buyer. This creates a lot of frustration and leads to many threads here. |
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#412 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Brisbane
Watch: DSSD
Posts: 7,963
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Quote:
But Rolex represents it as simply as possible for marketing purposes in order to strike a chord with the average person. Consumer education is handled here and on forums like this. Rolex won't touch anything else other than marketing. |
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#413 |
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,819
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For clarification (accuracy, precision)
The description and example in post #407 (HiBoost) is correct and uses a simple example. Therefore, it is rather easy to understand. My description in post #411 (saxo3) is scientifically correct and more global. Therefore, it is eventually not so easy to understand due to the used terminology such as Gaussian distribution, standard deviation, sigma value. I hope that does not leave any confusion. Let’s continue with the collection of measurement data and caliber comparisons. PS: Anybody still interested to continue? I will start with a comparison between 3130, 3187, 3235, 3285 calibers |
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#414 |
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
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32xx movement problem poll and data thread
Amplitudes vs. Time comparison for 3130, 3187, 3235, 3285 calibers
Today I have finished amplitude measurements with my 2017 Explorer II Ref. 216570 (caliber 3187) in dial up position. After one full wind, I could take data until 47:40 hours, at which the amplitude was 111 degrees and the rate -2 sec/day (starting from 308 degrees and + 3 sec/day). The Explorer stopped running after 48:10 hours, hitting exactly the power reserve of "approximately 48 hours" (Rolex Specifications for Ref. 216570) My data are displayed below, together with other results presented in this thread. ![]() The graph above summarizes data delivered (until now) in this thread. The time dependence of amplitudes for 3130, 3187, 3235, 3285 calibers is compared. Each measurement after one full caliber winding and in DU (dial up) position. References: Andad: Submariner 14060 M saxo3: Exlorer II 216570 saxo3: Sea-Dweller 126600 Smobews: Sea-Dweller 126600 Michael N Q8: GMT-Master II 126710 The curves for the Submariner 14060 M and the Explorer II are remarkably close. |
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#415 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: .
Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs
Posts: 12,609
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In the above tests on the 31xx and 32xxs ,what was the time data s/day at 24h and 48h ? (static dial up position )
What did the wearers find on s/day on average when wearing the watches ? At 24h .(daily wear) Now its not only the health of the movement (amplitudes) ,but how well it is regulated as well . |
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#416 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 37,231
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Hi Neef,
My 3130 was 0 secs/day at 24 hrs and 36 hours. My DJ 41 was pretty well spot on at 60 hours dial up. Other positions but dial up on the 41 after 50 hours were all over the place. I expect Saxo will add my DJ41 results to the graph.
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#417 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: .
Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs
Posts: 12,609
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#418 |
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,819
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32xx movement problem poll and data thread
Ooooh!
Searching for data, I scanned through the entire thread, and also printed your pdf :-) I focused on the 3187 vs. 3130 comparison and simply overlooked to integrate your DJ 41 data (4 points @ 0, 24, 48, 67 hrs) into the plot. If you (and others) acknowledge and wish such graphs .... then I can continue. |
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#419 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: .
Watch: Daytonas/Subs/GMTs
Posts: 12,609
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Quote:
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#420 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,819
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Plot updated
Added data: Datejust Ref. 126300 (caliber 3235) Reference: Andad Comment: all dotted lines are only a guide to the eye. ![]() |
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