32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[cascadez71]

Originally Posted by Easy E

I would spring a little extra for the 1900.
https://www.amazon.com/OTOOLWORLD-Co...s%2C107&sr=8-6

Thank you.

And this appears to be the guide:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=5002

Any other posts helpful to read? I am totally new at this. Down the rabbit hole I go.

I held off reading too much into timeographer posts as I didn't want to worry myself too much...but it makes sense to evaluate before/after service, especially now that I have the classic 32 series issues.

[cascadez71]

Originally Posted by tho68

My "practical" expirience confirms what I measured (see below) that my watch is crazy accurate. After around 4 days (including the test period) the deviation is 1s max.

That is fantastic and I hope it stays there for you! I daily wear my 126610LV since March 2021, not taken off for anything besides distance runs. It was scary accurate for the first 3-6 months, then sat at -1 to -1.5 spd for 3 years. Recently it suffered the big 32xx drop off.

I just ordered a Weishi 1900 and will post results. How did you (and others reading this) account for variation when making your excel tables?
Eg. First post in this thread: "DU: +2 to +3 s/d, 256-262 deg" How would you record this as a single value for rate and amplitude on your excel table? Just average? +2.5 s/d, 259 deg ?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by cascadez71

Would you say that colder temperatures result in a "slower" watch? ie. -spd

Whereas warmer ambient is +spd?

Take my advice forget about timegrapher just wear and enjoy your watch in good health now that's far more important.

[CharlesN]

[QUOTE=cascadez71;13417989]Would you say that colder temperatures result in a "slower" watch? ie. -spd

If my memory serves me well (I hope it does) there was some discussion a while ago about temperature effects in this thread.

[CaptT]

Originally Posted by cascadez71

I don't have a timeographer (yet?) but my 3235 just collapsed. Early 2021 Sub, bought from AD new and worn day and night. Started 0 spd, then -1 to -1.5 spd, last month got noticeably worse. -6spd minimum.

Was there ever a cause identified? A fix beyond re-servicing to increase lubrication? I can't imagine Rolex would be ok with a 3-4 year service interval. I would not be, the 31xx goes 10+ years.

I love the watch, but would not be able to stomach servicing it that frequently. That is worse than most quartz battery replacements.

Sorry to hear, but glad you found this thread. You’ll find a bunch of useful information here, though I don’t know that there is any conclusive rationale for this now widely known issue.

Slowing timekeeping, sometimes rapidly, is often how the issue presents. Up to you to determine if it’s outside what you might consider an acceptable range.

The advice to send to RSC makes the most sense, as they’re best equipped to handle this, and if within warranty it’ll be covered for you at no cost. Many report that their watch comes back fine after servicing, and low amplitude issue is resolved. Others have had to send their watch(es) back multiple times for the same issue, unfortunately. Sadly, as far as I can follow, it’s not entirely understood what is the cause, though there are RSC trained/employed watch technicians (I hope I’m doing their title and capabilities justice) here and elsewhere that have confirmed this issue is real.

Originally Posted by cascadez71

Thank you.

And this appears to be the guide:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=5002

Any other posts helpful to read? I am totally new at this. Down the rabbit hole I go.

I held off reading too much into timeographer posts as I didn't want to worry myself too much...but it makes sense to evaluate before/after service, especially now that I have the classic 32 series issues.

Timegrapher makes sense, though it isn’t for everyone. Just like this thread isn’t for everyone, though some seem to make a point to come back and add little value to the thread other than mock those that care about this issue, data, analysis, potential resolutions, etc. Don’t let that discourage you, but perhaps important to remember that to take these issues with a grain of salt, and in relative perspective.

The 126610LV is a really cool dive watch. Good luck getting it back to spec.

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by padi56

Take my advice forget about timegrapher just wear and enjoy your watch in good health now that's far more important.

Now here is a "Novel" idea ...

How about Enjoying a watch AND also enjoying measuring with a timegrapher.

[1William]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Now here is a "Novel" idea ...

How about Enjoying a watch AND also enjoying measuring with a timegrapher.

I have to agree if that is what the owner enjoys.

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Now here is a "Novel" idea ...

How about Enjoying a watch AND also enjoying measuring with a timegrapher.

Exactly. Some people can own a performance car and be happy to just drive it to work and have it maintained by someone else. Others want to tune it, dyno it, get it on the track, tweak every last bit of performance out of it. Or debate different engines and specs over the years. There is certainly room for many types of enthusiasts in any hobby. The sheer length of this thread indicates a significant level of interest in this aspect of Rolex.

[Kinnakeet]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Now here is a "Novel" idea ...

How about Enjoying a watch AND also enjoying measuring with a timegrapher.

I agree, Charles. I think we all know good health is more important than having a good running watch. But part of the hobby for some is accuracy. As you know my husband has been working on positional difference with that IWC and was telling me this morning he is able to keep +2 seconds TOTAL after 35 days.

He’s had good luck as well with Metas Omegas and Tudor. Getting like +1 sec per week.

[CharlesN]

Once a person has the data that becomes easily available with using and recording the results from a Timegrapher it becomes such a simple thing to keep a watch running to virtually perfect timekeeping
Simple positioning at night is the corrective position is all that’s needed.
It really does not matter what brand of watch this method is used with, be it IWC, Rolex, Tudor or any other make.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

Now here is a "Novel" idea ...

How about Enjoying a watch AND also enjoying measuring with a timegrapher.

Good proposal! It ended on 50 Ohm, the empty barrel resistance.

Nothing new in life, a few guys don't learn anything, whether it's interesting or not, it doesn't matter. Arguments or facts? Don't count. Discussion? Not possible. Why? There is no acceptance of others. Why do they do it? Because they can!

[CharlesN]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Good proposal! It ended on 50 Ohm, the empty barrel resistance.

I am getting my Ohm meter set up immediately.

I will also get my sound meter ready for the noise from an empty barrel.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by CharlesN

I am getting my Ohm meter set up immediately.

I will also get my sound meter ready for the noise from an empty barrel.

No, you need an RF meter to measure CNR. The N in this thread seems a touch high from time to time.

[SwissSteph]

Hello everyone,

Further to the analysis of my data by “Saxo3” and his comments, I have redone a complete 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 54, 57 and 60 hour test.

I wound each watch 40 times and heard what sounded like “internal friction”, clearly indicating that I had indeed wound my watches to the maximum. I also waited 15 minutes (in DU position) before starting the first measurement.

Each Timegrapher measurement took 4:05 minutes. 2:00 minutes for stability on the new position and 2:05 minutes of actual measurements (so 4 periods of 60 seconds), then I noted the information after this period by pausing the device.

Here are my new results for my two watches. I look forward to the analysis and conclusion of “Saxo3”. Thanks a lot!

[saxo3]

@SwissSteph There is not much to analyse as you have already done it

The previously observed variations in amplitudes and rates are gone. They were not intrinsic to the caliber anyway.

No change to my conclusions (#5291) and proposal (#5300).

You could start to analyse the isochronism and compare your two 32xx watches. It is not difficult: you plot X-Rate vs. X- Amplitude and try a linear fit of your data to determine the slope (m). Look for example at my post #5162 (graph at the bottom).

The higher the value of 'm' the better the isochronism, because the rate change is smaller when amplitudes decrease. Obtaining a good linear fit is sometimes a bit tricky. In some cases one has to limit the fit range.

[cascadez71]

126610
Purchased/in-service 3/2021
Weishi 1900, LA: 53deg
Initial measurement t+0. I took 4 separate measurements at each position after letting settle 2 mins (settled 15 min prior to first DU measurement). Followed Post #5002.
Will post +24, +48 and maybe somewhere between 60-70 depending on schedule.

[SwissSteph]

Originally Posted by saxo3

@SwissSteph There is not much to analyse as you have already done it

The previously observed variations in amplitudes and rates are gone. They were not intrinsic to the caliber anyway.

No change to my conclusions (#5291) and proposal (#5300).

You could start to analyse the isochronism and compare your two 32xx watches. It is not difficult: you plot X-Rate vs. X- Amplitude and try a linear fit of your data to determine the slope (m). Look for example at my post #5162 (graph at the bottom).

The higher the value of 'm' the better the isochronism, because the rate change is smaller when amplitudes decrease. Obtaining a good linear fit is sometimes a bit tricky. In some cases one has to limit the fit range.

Hello "Saxo3"

Thank you for your message, your analysis and your conclusions, I am still reassured.

I will do in 1-2 months what you proposed in your #5300 (t=0 and t=24) and I will work to arrive at making (with Excel) the same graph that you presented in your message #5162.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by SwissSteph

Hello "Saxo3"

Thank you for your message, your analysis and your conclusions, I am still reassured.

I will do in 1-2 months what you proposed in your #5300 (t=0 and t=24) and I will work to arrive at making (with Excel) the same graph that you presented in your message #5162.

No need to wait! You already have all the data from your run 1 and run 2. It is just to make another graph and fit your measurement points.

[SwissSteph]

“just to make” ... uh, with Excel ... uh, I'm going back to it ... but I'm having a bit of a problem figuring out how to proceed (Excel not being a tool I use every day, even in recent years) ... I'll see if I can combine this information (yes-yes I have) into a chart

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by SwissSteph

Hello everyone,

Further to the analysis of my data by “Saxo3” and his comments, I have redone a complete 0, 12, 24, 36, 48, 54, 57 and 60 hour test.

I wound each watch 40 times and heard what sounded like “internal friction”, clearly indicating that I had indeed wound my watches to the maximum. I also waited 15 minutes (in DU position) before starting the first measurement.

Each Timegrapher measurement took 4:05 minutes. 2:00 minutes for stability on the new position and 2:05 minutes of actual measurements (so 4 periods of 60 seconds), then I noted the information after this period by pausing the device.

Here are my new results for my two watches. I look forward to the analysis and conclusion of “Saxo3”. Thanks a lot!

Your data and presentation is very nice.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by cascadez71

126610
Purchased/in-service 3/2021
Weishi 1900, LA: 53deg
Initial measurement t+0. I took 4 separate measurements at each position after letting settle 2 mins (settled 15 min prior to first DU measurement). Followed Post #5002.
Will post +24, +48 and maybe somewhere between 60-70 depending on schedule.

Keep the test running, but your 0 Hr vertical amplitudes are too low.

[SwissSteph]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Your data and presentation is very nice.

thank you

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by cascadez71

126610
Purchased/in-service 3/2021
Weishi 1900, LA: 53deg
Initial measurement t+0. I took 4 separate measurements at each position after letting settle 2 mins (settled 15 min prior to first DU measurement). Followed Post #5002.
Will post +24, +48 and maybe somewhere between 60-70 depending on schedule.

Due to low vertical amplitudes (t = 0), their measurements between 60 and 70 hours are unlikely to be possible or they (6U, 9U) will strongly oscillate. Take more data between 48 and 60 hours. Good luck.

[cascadez71]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Due to low vertical amplitudes (t = 0), their measurements between 60 and 70 hours are unlikely to be possible or they (6U, 9U) will strongly oscillate. Take more data between 48 and 60 hours. Good luck.

Thanks for the heads up. I have been taking 4 measurements (30s apart) per position and averaging. 2 minutes settle time prior to position measurement.

Conducting +48 (actually +47) now already having some major oscillations in vertical movements. 3U and 9U are worst. Ranges >10s/d and >15deg in 4 measurements.

Will be useful to compare to post-(warranty) service and future. Will give warning to trade for 5 digit 3135.

[cascadez71]

Originally Posted by cascadez71

Thanks for the heads up. I have been taking 4 measurements (30s apart) per position and averaging. 2 minutes settle time prior to position measurement.

Conducting +48 (actually +47) now already having some major oscillations in vertical movements. 3U and 9U are worst. Ranges >10s/d and >15deg in 4 measurements.

Will be useful to compare to post-(warranty) service and future. Will give warning to trade for 5 digit 3135.

After +58 hour measurements where watch failed to read on 3U and 9U, I immediately fully wound watch and started wearing. Put on timeographer 10 minutes later in DU and readings were very wild -300 to -900 s/d, amplitude all over the place. I wondered if maybe timeographer needed a power reset or watch needed to settle. I then went about my day.

2 hours later watch is losing 20+ seconds per HOUR on my wrist, perhaps a day or two of wear will normalize. Amazing it ran as long as it did - my experiment was only the second time the watch had sat unworn since March of 2021. I'm a 24/7 wearer.

Will post clean charts in a day or two. I hope these updates are useful for someone reading this down the line.

[hellobandit]

Hello,

I just got a Weishi 1900. I'll try to find the time to make measurements of the same quality as yours for my 3235 on my Dayjust.
When I look at your charts I see that you have precise drifts to the nearest tenth. My Timegrapher is only accurate with a whole number.
Is there an adjustment to be made?

Thanks

[cascadez71]

Originally Posted by hellobandit

Hello,

I just got a Weishi 1900. I'll try to find the time to make measurements of the same quality as yours for my 3235 on my Dayjust.
When I look at your charts I see that you have precise drifts to the nearest tenth. My Timegrapher is only accurate with a whole number.
Is there an adjustment to be made?

Thanks

First, I am the noob of the thread. The experts will give better advice.

I have same timeographer and you are correct. The initial +0 chart I posted has tenths and hundredths because I took 4 measurements in each position and averaged. I will correct the "sig figs" (haven't thought about that since 6th grade math) on final chart.

If you go back a few pages, there are some good examples of excel charts posted by other members.

I used post #5002 as a guide (note 53 degree Lift Angle, the Weishi defaults to 52). Also, don't do the measurements around when date wheel may be engaging, will throw off numbers.

[hellobandit]

Originally Posted by cascadez71

First, I am the noob of the thread. The experts will give better advice.

I have same timeographer and you are correct. The initial +0 chart I posted has tenths and hundredths because I took 4 measurements in each position and averaged. I will correct the "sig figs" (haven't thought about that since 6th grade math) on final chart.

If you go back a few pages, there are some good examples of excel charts posted by other members.

I used post #5002 as a guide (note 53 degree Lift Angle, the Weishi defaults to 52). Also, don't do the measurements around when date wheel may be engaging, will throw off numbers.

Ok, I understand better. I will follow your advice.

Thank you ;)

[cascadez71]

Timeographer testing complete. Cal. 3235, Weishi 1900, LA 53deg

Watch was wound fully after 58 hr test but was demonstrating extremely low amplitude and rate even in DU position. Worn during day today was losing 15-20 s/hour. Clearly letting it run down to near 60 hours magnified the issue.

Off to service it goes. Will repeat test on return.

[SwissSteph]

Originally Posted by hellobandit

Hello,

I just got a Weishi 1900. I'll try to find the time to make measurements of the same quality as yours for my 3235 on my Dayjust.
When I look at your charts I see that you have precise drifts to the nearest tenth. My Timegrapher is only accurate with a whole number.
Is there an adjustment to be made?

Thanks

Screenshot of the setup used on the Weshi can be seen on my #5286