32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

How many years is this subject going to run? With, literally, millions of these movements being manufactured, there will always be some minor issues, it’s inevitable . The vast majority of owners will be perfectly happy, but on the forums, something stirs...
The issue is probably not the new movement but changed expectations, driven by unwise Rolex marketing. You cannot guarantee extreme precision from mechanical watches in real world conditions. Why not relax and live with reality.
Some things really don’t matter.......

No there is actually an issue here. It’s not just running a tad slower. The amplitude deteriorates and over time it gets slower and slower. They become more in accurate than Ali express watches.

Deny it if you want.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

How many years is this subject going to run? With, literally, millions of these movements being manufactured, there will always be some minor issues, it’s inevitable . The vast majority of owners will be perfectly happy, but on the forums, something stirs...
The issue is probably not the new movement but changed expectations, driven by unwise Rolex marketing. You cannot guarantee extreme precision from mechanical watches in real world conditions. Why not relax and live with reality.
Some things really don’t matter.......

Thanks for your feedback.
I hear you and will not argue against it!

Please, imagine you would have bought in total 3 new Rolex watches (SD43, CHNR, BLRO) and all 3 have movement problems (not small issues), how would you feel?

My CHNR is worn less than 10x, the BLRO is unworn, the SD43 was repaired but I don't know how long it remains good.

All my vintages watches run much better than the above mentioned 32xx series.

My one and only aim here is to find out what is the experience of other forum members and try to find sime comparable data. I do not doubt at all the competence of any watchmaker such as Bas.

Do YOU own one watch with a 32xx caliber?

[LNGSD43]

Joined this forum not long ago thinking I’d found like minded people and to gain some knowledge on a subject that interests me. This thread stood out as it’s an issue I’ve experienced (and yes I believe there is or certainly was an issue). It’s disappointing that all I find now is bickering and snide remarks. We all share a passion here and you’d think there could be some support for those who are experiencing a problem with their timepiece rather than dismissing it simply on the basis that it hasn’t affected them. It’s a real shame.

[502 to Right]

I own a 126200 Datejust I bought brand new from my AD in early March of 2020. I wore it for about about a month and then switched to other watches as I worked from home (no need to wear a dress watch). At the time it was running about +1 sec/day.

I started wearing it again about a month ago and realized it was running about -6 or -7 seconds a day. I took it to my AD and their watchmaker said it was not running within specs and he would fully service it under warranty. It's back now and running about +1 sec./day.

It's nice my watch is under warranty for another 4 years but this problem is most disconcerting for a watch of this price.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

I own a 126200 Datejust I bought brand new from my AD in early March of 2020. I wore it for about about a month and then switched to other watches as I worked from home (no need to wear a dress watch). At the time it was running about +1 sec/day.

I started wearing it again about a month ago and realized it was running about -6 or -7 seconds a day. I took it to my AD and their watchmaker said it was not running within specs and he would fully service it under warranty. It's back now and running about +1 sec./day.

It's nice my watch is under warranty for another 4 years but this problem is most disconcerting for a watch of this price.

Thanks for your feedback.
Very interesting because it’s a watch sold in 2020 which showed problems already after a few months and w/o extensive use.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

I own a 126200 Datejust I bought brand new from my AD in early March of 2020. I wore it for about about a month and then switched to other watches as I worked from home (no need to wear a dress watch). At the time it was running about +1 sec/day.

I started wearing it again about a month ago and realized it was running about -6 or -7 seconds a day. I took it to my AD and their watchmaker said it was not running within specs and he would fully service it under warranty. It's back now and running about +1 sec./day.

It's nice my watch is under warranty for another 4 years but this problem is most disconcerting for a watch of this price.

Welcome.

Yes it appears you’re in the same group as a few of us here. It is a bit unfortunate.

How is the watch tracking post service?


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[LuminousMaximus]

I would just recall the 3235 and throw the 3135 back in there...
We need accuracy, not 70 hour power reserve...

[alphadweller]

Originally Posted by LuminousMaximus

We need accuracy, not 70 hour power reserve...

have to agree

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by LuminousMaximus

We need accuracy, not 70 hour power reserve...

...or frequent visits to the AD.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by LuminousMaximus

I would just recall the 3235 and throw the 3135 back in there...
We need accuracy, not 70 hour power reserve...

No I want both. And base on my Daytona accuracy plus 70hr pr is totally doable.

They just need to fix the 32xx


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[padi56]

Originally Posted by LuminousMaximus

I would just recall the 3235 and throw the 3135 back in there...
We need accuracy, not 70 hour power reserve...

Yes there may be a problem with some 32 series movements but today as the poll states report if 5spd out of spec. Now there could be many reasons for any mechanical movement to be 5 seconds or 3 seconds over controlled environment Rolex spec test. Now when the 32 series was first launched most on forum were jumping up and down with joy with the 72 hour power reserve. Now because a small number are a seconds out of spec its a bad movement. Let's get things into perspective how many of these movements are losing more than 10 seconds to a minutes a day, one posted was losing 5 minutes a hour which I find to be almost impossible for any movement.Just like many Rolex movements over the past decades like the 3035 even the 3135 had teething problems way back in the late 1970s/80s.IMHO the 32 series will be a great movement just like the rest of the Rolex movements over the past 50 plus years.

[saxo3]

Rolex SD43 after Movement Service

What is achieved with a 2017 SD43 (caliber 3235) after repair in 2019.

Amplitude & Accuracy vs. Time is shown in the graph below.

It is the same watch as described in posts #432, #466.

Data taken beginning of February 2021, in DU position after full winding.




Results:
- More than 200 degrees achieved after 60 hours.

- The amplitude reduction with time is absolutely normal for all movements.

- The 3235 caliber keeps a constant accuracy of about + 5 sec/day (blue line in the graph) up to approx. 60 hours

- This accuracy is only a matter of regulation, nothing wrong with the caliber.

- The movement was still running (rather well) after 69.5 hours.
- Its amplitude was 138 degrees with an accuracy (at that moment) of +/- 0 sec/day.

- The 3235 caliber stopped completely after 72 hours + 01 min.

I think these are very good results.

I'm optimistic that Rolex knows how to solve issues if they arise with some of the 32xx movements.

I hope that stops the bashing of some Rolex fans that collect and share data in this forum.

Comparable amplitude measurements are shown in posts #414, #420, #430.
Andad: Submariner 14060 M
saxo3: Exlorer II 216570
saxo3: Sea-Dweller 126600
Smobews: Sea-Dweller 126600
Michael N Q8: GMT-Master II 126710
Andad: Datejust 126300
HiBoost: Submariner 126613LB

[WalterE]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Rolex SD43 after Movement Service

What is achieved with a 2017 SD43 (caliber 3235) after repair in 2019.

Amplitude & Accuracy vs. Time is shown in the graph below.

[...]

I think these are very good results.

I'm optimistic that Rolex knows how to solve issues if they arise with some of the 32xx movements.

The consistency of those results looks excellent to me indeed. Proof those of us who buy the watches to enjoy should not worry.

I can understand the reasons for panic in those who see them as investment pieces or, at a minimum, as "cash in hand" as I've seen them being called. If all of the sudden 32xx were to develop a bad reputation as "lemons", the value of such commodities would drop...

Oh, dear... Let me take cover... Should have

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

I own a 126200 Datejust I bought brand new from my AD in early March of 2020. I wore it for about about a month and then switched to other watches as I worked from home (no need to wear a dress watch). At the time it was running about +1 sec/day.

I started wearing it again about a month ago and realized it was running about -6 or -7 seconds a day. I took it to my AD and their watchmaker said it was not running within specs and he would fully service it under warranty. It's back now and running about +1 sec./day.

It's nice my watch is under warranty for another 4 years but this problem is most disconcerting for a watch of this price.

I think a key piece of info here is when you stopped wearing it for awhile and then it acted up.

For me, 7 months of +0.3 spd followed by a month nap, then -30 seconds at full wind.

That always made me think lubrication moving around was at least part of the issue.

[WalterE]

Originally Posted by EEpro

That always made me think lubrication moving around was at least part of the issue.

Makes sense...

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Good point Eddie and great question about the 70 hour, if it loses accuracy after 50 why bother to extend it from the 48 ish the 3185 had? In one of the posted articles, the watchmaker suggested that Rolex’s desire to extend it to the current 70 hour energy storage is the cause of the problem with the 35. Interesting question is if there could be a permanent fix that resulted in a reduction to 48 hour power reserve(?)

The isolated issues with the 3235 slowing down is from one of the pinions wearing on a bearing. Bas was kind enough to share pictures of the failure in a thread a while back. My opinion is that during manufacturing, the bearing isn't properly seated and aligned in the main plate, eventually causing uneven wear.

The only way to solve the slowing down of the movement in the last half of the mainspring power reserve is to go to a dual barrel configuration. All single barrel automatic movements suffer from inconsistent power delivery when using a single barrel. It's the physical nature of the mainspring. When Rolex went to the 70 hour power reserve, there is more consistency in accuracy for a longer time. After 34 hours, the movement still has a respectable amplitude and accuracy; much better than if it had a 48 hour power reserve.

[saxo3]

Amplitude vs. Time data collected (so far) in this thread.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by peterskinner

How many years is this subject going to run? With, literally, millions of these movements being manufactured, there will always be some minor issues, it’s inevitable . The vast majority of owners will be perfectly happy, but on the forums, something stirs...
The issue is probably not the new movement but changed expectations, driven by unwise Rolex marketing. You cannot guarantee extreme precision from mechanical watches in real world conditions. Why not relax and live with reality.
Some things really don’t matter.......

Something about this topic really seems to upset people named Peter. Again, as I have said before, if I could go back and redo the poll descriptions I would. It was never my intention to freak out about "a couple seconds".
I more than doubled the manufacturer's range, but I should have gone even further. That said, any reasonable person who has actually read the posts would have to admit that there has been ZERO hysteria about "omg my watch is 6 seconds slow". When the issue presents itself, it is a significant and sudden change in timekeeping. Almost invariably, users have said their 32xx powered watch was the most accurate watch they had ever owned until, quite quickly, it wasn't. Some dropped to -10 spd, some to -60 spd, some even more than that. And it's always running slow, never fast. More and more people report timing getting worse after periods of sitting, even for just a week. That alone should raise concern. I have an 8 year old Speedy that has never been serviced. It has gone over a year without a winding multiple times. It's still +/- 4 spd and has amplitudes over 300 degrees. Meanwhile my brand new Sub is in the 180 degree range after 24 hours. If that type of information doesn't seem in any way curious to you, great, but would it be possible to just let the rest of us talk?

I'll propose an analogy. I've never watched a game of football in my life. I have no interest. But you know what else I don't do? I don't go on football forums and heckle those users and say "Why are you guys wasting time talking about this? None of you are even on the team, what do you care? There are far more important things in life than your sports team. Get a life!" That is how you guys sound in this thread. If this topic is not interesting to you then PLEASE do us all a favor and go post somewhere else. Now if I were spamming every post where somebody gets a new watch with links to this thread, then sure, I could see your frustration. But my point in creating this thread was to actually consolidate the discussion to only a single place. So you guys who really hate this topic should actually be thanking me! If you'd prefer I can follow the POP (Pissed-off-Peter) club around and bring this topic up in every thread you comment in. Just let me know. I've got 86400 seconds to use each day, happy to do it.

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Amplitude vs. Time data collected (so far) in this thread.

picture is worth 1000 words

when the old movement stops running, the new movement still has over 200 amplitude

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Smobews

The only way to solve the slowing down of the movement in the last half of the mainspring power reserve is to go to a dual barrel configuration. All single barrel automatic movements suffer from inconsistent power delivery when using a single barrel. It's the physical nature of the mainspring. When Rolex went to the 70 hour power reserve, there is more consistency in accuracy for a longer time. After 34 hours, the movement still has a respectable amplitude and accuracy; much better than if it had a 48 hour power reserve.

Not necessarily. The thickness of the spring makes a difference. This is why you will see the Yachtmaster II and Daytona with their 72 hour power reserve hold their accuracy for days. I almost couldn’t believe when testing my own YMII power reserve that it performed like my other dual barrel main spring watches. It outperformed any Rolex I have ever put through this test.

This from my notes when testing my YMII with the caliber 4161:
"As most know accuracy is only measured at the top of its mainspring fully wound but after that initial 24h, amplitude will get lower and that will also change its accuracy. For this YMII, I am in Swiss COSC for 68 hours and “ Superlative Chronometer” for 60 hours which may be a record for any of my Rolex watches.”

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Not necessarily. The thickness of the spring makes a difference. This is why you will see the Yachtmaster II and Daytona with their 72 hour power reserve hold their accuracy for days. I almost couldn’t believe when testing my own YMII power reserve that it performed like my other dual barrel main spring watches. It outperformed any Rolex I have ever put through this test.

This from my notes when testing my YMII:
"As most know accuracy is only measured at the top of its mainspring fully wound but after that initial 24h, amplitude will get lower and that will also change its accuracy. For this YMII, I am in Swiss COSC for 68 hours and “ Superlative Chronometer” for 60 hours which may be a record for any of my Rolex watches.”

That is spectacular!!

Here are my latest results when I was testing the power reserve. Resting dial up, noted after hours past:

0 2.1 spd
10 1.5 spd
34 0.1 spd
48 -1.0 spd
58 -5.8 spd

watch stopped after 72.5 hours

My point was that there is inconsistency as the spring releases. The accuracy will wain over time. (it's still spectacular)

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Smobews

picture is worth 1000 words

when the old movement stops running, the new movement still has over 200 amplitude

3235 vs 3187
You mean that comparison?
Indeed that goes w/o explanations.



Where my 3187 stops, my 3235 still has 250 degrees amplitude.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

....Meanwhile my brand new Sub is in the 180 degree range after 24 hours....

Is this your Submariner 126613LB which is also in my graph in post #557?
Therein it still had 243 degrees after 24 hours.

Meanwhile it dropped to 180 degrees?

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Is this your Submariner 126613LB which is also in my graph in post #557?
Therein it still had 243 degrees after 24 hours.

Meanwhile it dropped to 180 degrees?

Your graph is only showing my dial up numbers, which of course are higher than vertical positions. The spec (apparently) is >= 200 degrees after 24 hours in any position. After 24 hours I'm 243 degrees dial up, but only 184 degrees crown down. We always expect a vertical position to have a lower amplitude than a horizontal one, but the difference between my two seem quite extreme.

[Smobews]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Your graph is only showing my dial up numbers, which of course are higher than vertical positions. The spec (apparently) is >= 200 degrees after 24 hours in any position. After 24 hours I'm 243 degrees dial up, but only 184 degrees crown down. We always expect a vertical position to have a lower amplitude than a horizontal one, but the difference between my two seem quite extreme.

180 after 24 hour is out of Rolex specs. That sounds like warranty work.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by HiBoost

Your graph is only showing my dial up numbers, which of course are higher than vertical positions. The spec (apparently) is >= 200 degrees after 24 hours in any position. After 24 hours I'm 243 degrees dial up, but only 184 degrees crown down. We always expect a vertical position to have a lower amplitude than a horizontal one, but the difference between my two seem quite extreme.

I know that very well for my wife's CHNR!
Look at post #11 Table 1 and Table 2.
This watch has been worn 10x maximum.

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by Smobews

180 after 24 hour is out of Rolex specs. That sounds like warranty work.

I called the RSC but since the timekeeping is still (quite) good at this point they are not interested in looking at it. And that's fine, I'm in no rush to send it off. Will be an interesting data point for us to see how this ages. If the timekeeping does eventually go to crap, will the amplitude become even lower at that point? Or will these current amplitudes be paired with significant time loss? Normally people don't check amplitude until there is a problem. So I plan to keep more of a diary along the way with 2-3 new 32xx watches (of which I only have 1 at this time).

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by saxo3

You 'forgot' the SD43 Mk1, which you purchased on 04 May 2017. What is your experience with that 3235 movement? Also no issues?
Cheers!

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=615012

Yes that one too

As I stated I wear my watches in rotation and I don’t monitor my watch performance like some here.

That’s said, I understand if some are concerned/interested/more exuberant about time keeping accuracy.

Is there an issue? Well possibly there is. Are there a huge number of variables to making this a scientific poll? Yes but this thread seems to point to many members who notice an accuracy issue.

Will Rolex fix the problem if it exists? I believe they will and as a result, my ability to enjoy any of my watches that have a 32xx series movement is unaffected by this or other threads like it.

[saxo3]

Great and thanks for your reply!
Enjoy. Cheers.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Smobews

The isolated issues with the 3235 slowing down is from one of the pinions wearing on a bearing. Bas was kind enough to share pictures of the failure in a thread a while back. My opinion is that during manufacturing, the bearing isn't properly seated and aligned in the main plate, eventually causing uneven wear.

The only way to solve the slowing down of the movement in the last half of the mainspring power reserve is to go to a dual barrel configuration. All single barrel automatic movements suffer from inconsistent power delivery when using a single barrel. It's the physical nature of the mainspring. When Rolex went to the 70 hour power reserve, there is more consistency in accuracy for a longer time. After 34 hours, the movement still has a respectable amplitude and accuracy; much better than if it had a 48 hour power reserve.

This isn’t true. The 4130 it’s only got one barrel and keeps time very well over the bulk of the pr.


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