Opinions on this 1987 5513 Sub

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by springer

The 1984 Submariner 5513 you mentioned is an interesting watch, but for me, it is not a poor example at the listed price and misreprented in the listing..

The insert is later and the dial has some type of damage and is not in "excellent condition" as described in the ad.

The insert was also called "excellent" even though it is not original.

Everything is excellent, including the scratched service insert, the dinged-up case, the speckled dial, the stretched bracelet, and perhaps even the re-lumed hands. Still an appealing watch at some price point, IMO.

[springer]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Everything is excellent, including the scratched service insert, the dinged-up case, the speckled dial, the stretched bracelet, and perhaps even the re-lumed hands. Still an appealing watch at some price point, IMO.

There you go. That is the key - excellent for much less. But don't mind the seller's description, that is secondary!!!

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

Tropicalwatch.com (Jacek), has an 84 glossy WGS listed, but not a full set. To me, the seller and then the watch is more important than the set.

I think the 5513 on tropical watch has a much nicer dial than the OP's. At that price you could replace the insert still have a nice watch for around 12.5 k.

For someone looking to buy now, a watch like that seems like a good option instead of searching for auction watches at wholesale prices.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by springer

The 1984 Submariner 5513 you mentioned is an interesting watch, but for me, it is not a poor example at the listed price and misreprented in the listing.

The insert is later and the dial has some type of damage and is not in "excellent condition" as described in the ad.

The insert was also called "excellent" even though it is not original.

Thanks Springer. It is indeed interesting how excellent no longer seems to have any meaning.

[Mk2rick]

i agree that certain renowned vintage watch seller's descriptions have been fairly deceiving of late...warm creamy patina description is actually white (IMO, your eyes might differ) under natural light..

[Filipão]

I wonder what happened to the "Buy the Dealer" concept.

Would you trust this renowned seller?

There is a lesson to be learnt here.

Don't buy the dealer, instead do your homework, learn all the details from the model you're craving for beforehand.

Then... ask the Forum - BEFORE the purchase!

[RFC]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Most people posting regularly on the forum already have watches they are happy with, and aren't interested in buying watches at premium prices, so they will generally mention "wholesale" prices (auctions, collector-to-collector, etc.), which requires patience and knowledge on the buyer's part. They are not giving you dealer prices. And I don't think you should expect collectors to give away their hard-won hunting places and strategies to a stranger, and certainly not on an open searchable forum.

If by "trusted seller", you are referring to one of a handful of often-recommended dealers and quasi-dealers, then obviously you should not expect to get a bargain. If you want a good watch quickly, and you want the security of buying from an established seller, then ignore the prices being mentioned in this thread and just accept the fact that you will pay a premium price. There's nothing wrong with that.

If you are willing to put in the effort required to find good watches at better prices, then you need to be patient, develop your knowledge and your network, and learn how to hunt. If you only look at prices posted in the most prominent internet places, then you are looking at the same (mostly crappy and overpriced) listings that everyone else has already decided not to buy.

My learning curve is steep, but will continue trying! Thanks.

[RFC]

Originally Posted by MrChamfers

I think the 5513 on tropical watch has a much nicer dial than the OP's. At that price you could replace the insert still have a nice watch for around 12.5 k.

For someone looking to buy now, a watch like that seems like a good option instead of searching for auction watches at wholesale prices.

So do these vintage dealers get their supply of pieces from auctions or from stray private sellers? I’m guessing that a collector with a nice 5513 wanting to move his piece will go to another collector or an auction to sell it and not to a dealer right?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by RFC

So do these vintage dealers get their supply of pieces from auctions or from stray private sellers? I’m guessing that a collector with a nice 5513 wanting to move his piece will go to another collector or an auction to sell it and not to a dealer right?

TBH, most people aren't interested in selling watches, and they are happy to sell to a dealer to avoid uncertainty and hassle. This includes collectors. But also, most watches are owned by people who aren't collectors and they just feel more comfortable selling to a well-known dealer. There have been several occasions where I've come across an inherited piece through referral by personal contacts and made strong offers, but the owner chose to consign it with a dealer, or even sell to a dealer for less money. I tend to think that most dealers are pretty sketchy (current company excluded), but they have a lot of credibility with the general public.

[TuRo]

No - according to some admittedly sketchy stats I have for academic purposes and for the EU only (not USA etc) from WF, WM, EB, C24, an Italian market (as result of Italian Govt Draconian tax returns to outlaw 'black money')....about 75% + of all sales are from 'Specialised Used Dealer). Auctions other than eBay are less than 8% and why eBay are working hard to get mkt share !

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by Filipão

I wonder what happened to the "Buy the Dealer" concept.

Would you trust this renowned seller?

There is a lesson to be learnt here.

Don't buy the dealer, instead do your homework, learn all the details from the model you're craving for beforehand.

Then... ask the Forum - BEFORE the purchase!

Sage advice.

I think there is a big difference between buying the seller on new and contemporary models versus vintage models. On a new watch, I don't have as many concerns because top tier sellers usually call attention to even a slight blemish. But on vintage, there seems to be a lot more play with the concept of excellent, calling attention to replaced parts, and polishing/recutting. I do not understand this dicotomy.

But, I think buy the seller still has value on vintage for many of us novices, as to increasing the odds that you get the watch as pictured, and indeed actually get the watch as opposed to crickets after you send your money. These are large concerns for those us who do not have relationships for less common avenues of acquiring a watch.

But this forum is invaluable. When I joined many years ago, I posted pictures of a 5513 before I purchased. There was no other way for me to get a comfort level. And as you said, before is the operative word. What a great forum.

So, on vintage purchases I still lean toward trusted sellers. Because I don't want to send the money without a great track record of follow though. But as you said, trust but verify before you purchase