Has the CODE been slept on long enough by enthusiasts?

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Gandor

Has the CODE been slept on long enough by enthusiasts?

Nope.

[Halothane]

Originally Posted by subtona

Nope.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[agsstructures]

Maybe a handful that catch my eye but never would I ever consider purchasing one. So much more out there for the money.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by Pfang56

CODE troll is back!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not a CODE troll, an AP troll..

[adi365]

I love my CODE.
Bought it after my 3 ROs too.

[vliberman]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Not a CODE troll, an AP troll..

I hope u realize that u are trolling right now, just in case u are unaware of meaning of the term…

[messikens]

Originally Posted by vliberman

I hope u realize that u are trolling right now, just in case u are unaware of meaning of the term…

Originally Posted by vliberman

I hope u realize that u are trolling right now, just in case u are unaware of meaning of the term…

I'd rather read 15 educated posts from mickyd (who's a true collector with great connections) than one of your combative and indignant posts about how much you dislike AP... but that's just me.

I'd suggest the PP sub-forum could also benefit from your negativity if you'd like to share your wealth around a bit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[In-N-Out]

love my blue ss code chrono. unfortunately haven't worn it that much, but plan to in the fall/winter months. I would love to see some first party rubber straps made for it

problem with the code, besides the embarrassing launch NPIs, is probably the price. the skeletonized lugs, unique sapphire crystal, and octagonal mid case is very cool, but it doesn't warrant the code to be priced similarly to the RO (which has arguably the best looking bracelet ever made).

if the code launched today with the newer stamped dials on the SS and 38mm, the star wheel, QP, and ultra complicated pieces, it would have gotten far better reception.

additionally, if AP would have priced the SS 3 handers at low 20s and perhaps high teens even, it would have become a hype watch immediately with everyone praising the exact things mentioned above (lugs, unique crystal, and unique case construction) at an "affordable" $18k msrp or so. in this situation, I could see an alternative universe where young gen z and millennial clients are thrilled to purchase the code 11 first and then a RO second. probably would create a situation where the entry ss codes sell well above MSRP too.

I think AP dropped the ball there. they went high end in the beginning, went PM for all pieces including "entry" level complications like 3 handers w/ date, and had way too many options at launch (chronos, QPs, tourbillons etc). at the same time, AP pushed clients to purchase these pieces to get ROs later.

apple is obviously not on the same level as AP, but they also totally dropped the ball when they launched the Apple Watch. Angela Ahrendts from Burberry (from the fashion world just like FHB) was hired to push the AW in luxury territory. they launched a ridiculous $20k Apple Watch, marketed the stainless steel (and Hermes collab) as the hero product, and famously distinguished the sapphire glass on the front and back (sensor) of the AW as a reason to upgrade from the lower end aluminum watches (gorilla glass in front and back at the time). apple eventually realized this was an abysmal failure...Angela was removed and luckily Jeff Williams took over AW (ops guy and probably future CEO) and they eventually focused its attention on the aluminum models by the time series 4 was around (while still selling series 3 for a long time).

again, apple is not AP. AP is not apple. but one can reasonable conclude that more people in this world associate apple with "luxury" than the number of people associate "AP" with "luxury".....a result more due to apple being way more recognizable and mainstream and actually providing better products in its class....whereas most people haven't even heard of AP

I'd like to see AP own up to its mistake with the code launch like apple sort of has indirectly by shifting its commercial and product strategy. FHB directly admitted some of the failures with his interview with hodinkee/ben a few months ago, but I wish he would have realized that even the SS codes were priced too high.

if I was the CEO of AP, I would have priced the ss code 11 at around $17k USD, allowing most world wide clients to take home an AP at under $20k USD including sales tax/vat. I wouldn't care too much about short term profits.

for a brand that publicly claims that it's corporate strategy is to plan for the next 100 years instead of the standard 3-5 years, they should have known that a lower priced ss code would have likely produced a massive positive shift in sentiment. this would have likely have created "hype" for the code (not saying that's good or bad) but I think the "hype" would have settled into sustainable demand for the code for the next few decades. when you model out the LTV of each of these clients that were brought in via code, I bet you they will all have at least 2-3 pieces in their lifetimes to make up for any "lost profits" due to the lower priced codes. can even argue that any short term loss in profits is partially offset by marketing costs or UAC as hype would have been built organically for a $17k hot piece from AP.

[nazarian]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

love my blue ss code chrono. unfortunately haven't worn it that much, but plan to in the fall/winter months. I would love to see some first party rubber straps made for it

problem with the code, besides the embarrassing launch NPIs, is probably the price. the skeletonized lugs, unique sapphire crystal, and octagonal mid case is very cool, but it doesn't warrant the code to be priced similarly to the RO (which has arguably the best looking bracelet ever made).

if the code launched today with the newer stamped dials on the SS and 38mm, the star wheel, QP, and ultra complicated pieces, it would have gotten far better reception.

additionally, if AP would have priced the SS 3 handers at low 20s and perhaps high teens even, it would have become a hype watch immediately with everyone praising the exact things mentioned above (lugs, unique crystal, and unique case construction) at an "affordable" $18k msrp or so. in this situation, I could see an alternative universe where young gen z and millennial clients are thrilled to purchase the code 11 first and then a RO second. probably would create a situation where the entry ss codes sell well above MSRP too.

I think AP dropped the ball there. they went high end in the beginning, went PM for all pieces including "entry" level complications like 3 handers w/ date, and had way too many options at launch (chronos, QPs, tourbillons etc). at the same time, AP pushed clients to purchase these pieces to get ROs later.

apple is obviously not on the same level as AP, but they also totally dropped the ball when they launched the Apple Watch. Angela Ahrendts from Burberry (from the fashion world just like FHB) was hired to push the AW in luxury territory. they launched a ridiculous $20k Apple Watch, marketed the stainless steel (and Hermes collab) as the hero product, and famously distinguished the sapphire glass on the front and back (sensor) of the AW as a reason to upgrade from the lower end aluminum watches (gorilla glass in front and back at the time). apple eventually realized this was an abysmal failure...Angela was removed and luckily Jeff Williams took over AW (ops guy and probably future CEO) and they eventually focused its attention on the aluminum models by the time series 4 was around (while still selling series 3 for a long time).

again, apple is not AP. AP is not apple. but one can reasonable conclude that more people in this world associate apple with "luxury" than the number of people associate "AP" with "luxury".....a result more due to apple being way more recognizable and mainstream and actually providing better products in its class....whereas most people haven't even heard of AP

I'd like to see AP own up to its mistake with the code launch like apple sort of has indirectly by shifting its commercial and product strategy. FHB directly admitted some of the failures with his interview with hodinkee/ben a few months ago, but I wish he would have realized that even the SS codes were priced too high.

if I was the CEO of AP, I would have priced the ss code 11 at around $17k USD, allowing most world wide clients to take home an AP at under $20k USD including sales tax/vat. I wouldn't care too much about short term profits.

for a brand that publicly claims that it's corporate strategy is to plan for the next 100 years instead of the standard 3-5 years, they should have known that a lower priced ss code would have likely produced a massive positive shift in sentiment. this would have likely have created "hype" for the code (not saying that's good or bad) but I think the "hype" would have settled into sustainable demand for the code for the next few decades. when you model out the LTV of each of these clients that were brought in via code, I bet you they will all have at least 2-3 pieces in their lifetimes to make up for any "lost profits" due to the lower priced codes. can even argue that any short term loss in profits is partially offset by marketing costs or UAC as hype would have been built organically for a $17k hot piece from AP.

I agree with this 100% should have always been an entry level watch.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by messikens

I'd rather read 15 educated posts from mickyd (who's a true collector with great connections) than one of your combative and indignant posts about how much you dislike AP... but that's just me.

I'd suggest the PP sub-forum could also benefit from your negativity if you'd like to share your wealth around a bit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you sir. The feeling is mutual.

I just can't stand the nonsense this guy spews out and it's just not about AP alone. I can't take anyone seriously as a true collector who bashes other brands while constantly only promoting what he owns or likes.

[ts3]

Originally Posted by subtona

Nope.

+1

For me the dials were never an issue. It is the case... Not a fan of including the RO's octagon no matter how "forced" it may look. Then those hollow lugs... According to the OP I am probably just too mainstream to appreciate the design. LOL... But I do like the recent asymmetric remaster.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by messikens

I'd suggest the PP sub-forum could also benefit from your negativity if you'd like to share your wealth around a bit

Good idea to spread the joy around a bit - so many watch brands to hate, so little time.

[Cru Jones]

One thing is for sure, AP has been working hard to right the ship after the total flop of the CODE's introduction, with some of the later models being attractive. It's just hard to shake the first impression for the casual AP enthusiast, IMHO.

[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

love my blue ss code chrono. unfortunately haven't worn it that much, but plan to in the fall/winter months. I would love to see some first party rubber straps made for it

problem with the code, besides the embarrassing launch NPIs, is probably the price. the skeletonized lugs, unique sapphire crystal, and octagonal mid case is very cool, but it doesn't warrant the code to be priced similarly to the RO (which has arguably the best looking bracelet ever made).

if the code launched today with the newer stamped dials on the SS and 38mm, the star wheel, QP, and ultra complicated pieces, it would have gotten far better reception.

additionally, if AP would have priced the SS 3 handers at low 20s and perhaps high teens even, it would have become a hype watch immediately with everyone praising the exact things mentioned above (lugs, unique crystal, and unique case construction) at an "affordable" $18k msrp or so. in this situation, I could see an alternative universe where young gen z and millennial clients are thrilled to purchase the code 11 first and then a RO second. probably would create a situation where the entry ss codes sell well above MSRP too.

I think AP dropped the ball there. they went high end in the beginning, went PM for all pieces including "entry" level complications like 3 handers w/ date, and had way too many options at launch (chronos, QPs, tourbillons etc). at the same time, AP pushed clients to purchase these pieces to get ROs later.

apple is obviously not on the same level as AP, but they also totally dropped the ball when they launched the Apple Watch. Angela Ahrendts from Burberry (from the fashion world just like FHB) was hired to push the AW in luxury territory. they launched a ridiculous $20k Apple Watch, marketed the stainless steel (and Hermes collab) as the hero product, and famously distinguished the sapphire glass on the front and back (sensor) of the AW as a reason to upgrade from the lower end aluminum watches (gorilla glass in front and back at the time). apple eventually realized this was an abysmal failure...Angela was removed and luckily Jeff Williams took over AW (ops guy and probably future CEO) and they eventually focused its attention on the aluminum models by the time series 4 was around (while still selling series 3 for a long time).

again, apple is not AP. AP is not apple. but one can reasonable conclude that more people in this world associate apple with "luxury" than the number of people associate "AP" with "luxury".....a result more due to apple being way more recognizable and mainstream and actually providing better products in its class....whereas most people haven't even heard of AP

I'd like to see AP own up to its mistake with the code launch like apple sort of has indirectly by shifting its commercial and product strategy. FHB directly admitted some of the failures with his interview with hodinkee/ben a few months ago, but I wish he would have realized that even the SS codes were priced too high.

if I was the CEO of AP, I would have priced the ss code 11 at around $17k USD, allowing most world wide clients to take home an AP at under $20k USD including sales tax/vat. I wouldn't care too much about short term profits.

for a brand that publicly claims that it's corporate strategy is to plan for the next 100 years instead of the standard 3-5 years, they should have known that a lower priced ss code would have likely produced a massive positive shift in sentiment. this would have likely have created "hype" for the code (not saying that's good or bad) but I think the "hype" would have settled into sustainable demand for the code for the next few decades. when you model out the LTV of each of these clients that were brought in via code, I bet you they will all have at least 2-3 pieces in their lifetimes to make up for any "lost profits" due to the lower priced codes. can even argue that any short term loss in profits is partially offset by marketing costs or UAC as hype would have been built organically for a $17k hot piece from AP.

They should hire you to run the CODE marketing efforts. This is spot on.

[SylvainDXB]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

love my blue ss code chrono. unfortunately haven't worn it that much, but plan to in the fall/winter months. I would love to see some first party rubber straps made for it

problem with the code, besides the embarrassing launch NPIs, is probably the price. the skeletonized lugs, unique sapphire crystal, and octagonal mid case is very cool, but it doesn't warrant the code to be priced similarly to the RO (which has arguably the best looking bracelet ever made).

if the code launched today with the newer stamped dials on the SS and 38mm, the star wheel, QP, and ultra complicated pieces, it would have gotten far better reception.

additionally, if AP would have priced the SS 3 handers at low 20s and perhaps high teens even, it would have become a hype watch immediately with everyone praising the exact things mentioned above (lugs, unique crystal, and unique case construction) at an "affordable" $18k msrp or so. in this situation, I could see an alternative universe where young gen z and millennial clients are thrilled to purchase the code 11 first and then a RO second. probably would create a situation where the entry ss codes sell well above MSRP too.

I think AP dropped the ball there. they went high end in the beginning, went PM for all pieces including "entry" level complications like 3 handers w/ date, and had way too many options at launch (chronos, QPs, tourbillons etc). at the same time, AP pushed clients to purchase these pieces to get ROs later.

apple is obviously not on the same level as AP, but they also totally dropped the ball when they launched the Apple Watch. Angela Ahrendts from Burberry (from the fashion world just like FHB) was hired to push the AW in luxury territory. they launched a ridiculous $20k Apple Watch, marketed the stainless steel (and Hermes collab) as the hero product, and famously distinguished the sapphire glass on the front and back (sensor) of the AW as a reason to upgrade from the lower end aluminum watches (gorilla glass in front and back at the time). apple eventually realized this was an abysmal failure...Angela was removed and luckily Jeff Williams took over AW (ops guy and probably future CEO) and they eventually focused its attention on the aluminum models by the time series 4 was around (while still selling series 3 for a long time).

again, apple is not AP. AP is not apple. but one can reasonable conclude that more people in this world associate apple with "luxury" than the number of people associate "AP" with "luxury".....a result more due to apple being way more recognizable and mainstream and actually providing better products in its class....whereas most people haven't even heard of AP

I'd like to see AP own up to its mistake with the code launch like apple sort of has indirectly by shifting its commercial and product strategy. FHB directly admitted some of the failures with his interview with hodinkee/ben a few months ago, but I wish he would have realized that even the SS codes were priced too high.

if I was the CEO of AP, I would have priced the ss code 11 at around $17k USD, allowing most world wide clients to take home an AP at under $20k USD including sales tax/vat. I wouldn't care too much about short term profits.

for a brand that publicly claims that it's corporate strategy is to plan for the next 100 years instead of the standard 3-5 years, they should have known that a lower priced ss code would have likely produced a massive positive shift in sentiment. this would have likely have created "hype" for the code (not saying that's good or bad) but I think the "hype" would have settled into sustainable demand for the code for the next few decades. when you model out the LTV of each of these clients that were brought in via code, I bet you they will all have at least 2-3 pieces in their lifetimes to make up for any "lost profits" due to the lower priced codes. can even argue that any short term loss in profits is partially offset by marketing costs or UAC as hype would have been built organically for a $17k hot piece from AP.

Very well laid out and articulate argument! Agree with you, what bothers me the most (and I guess I'm not alone) is the value proposition. At the price point you suggested, I think a lot more people, myself included, would have gone for a Code...

[messikens]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

love my blue ss code chrono. unfortunately haven't worn it that much, but plan to in the fall/winter months. I would love to see some first party rubber straps made for it

problem with the code, besides the embarrassing launch NPIs, is probably the price. the skeletonized lugs, unique sapphire crystal, and octagonal mid case is very cool, but it doesn't warrant the code to be priced similarly to the RO (which has arguably the best looking bracelet ever made).

if the code launched today with the newer stamped dials on the SS and 38mm, the star wheel, QP, and ultra complicated pieces, it would have gotten far better reception.

additionally, if AP would have priced the SS 3 handers at low 20s and perhaps high teens even, it would have become a hype watch immediately with everyone praising the exact things mentioned above (lugs, unique crystal, and unique case construction) at an "affordable" $18k msrp or so. in this situation, I could see an alternative universe where young gen z and millennial clients are thrilled to purchase the code 11 first and then a RO second. probably would create a situation where the entry ss codes sell well above MSRP too.

I think AP dropped the ball there. they went high end in the beginning, went PM for all pieces including "entry" level complications like 3 handers w/ date, and had way too many options at launch (chronos, QPs, tourbillons etc). at the same time, AP pushed clients to purchase these pieces to get ROs later.

apple is obviously not on the same level as AP, but they also totally dropped the ball when they launched the Apple Watch. Angela Ahrendts from Burberry (from the fashion world just like FHB) was hired to push the AW in luxury territory. they launched a ridiculous $20k Apple Watch, marketed the stainless steel (and Hermes collab) as the hero product, and famously distinguished the sapphire glass on the front and back (sensor) of the AW as a reason to upgrade from the lower end aluminum watches (gorilla glass in front and back at the time). apple eventually realized this was an abysmal failure...Angela was removed and luckily Jeff Williams took over AW (ops guy and probably future CEO) and they eventually focused its attention on the aluminum models by the time series 4 was around (while still selling series 3 for a long time).

again, apple is not AP. AP is not apple. but one can reasonable conclude that more people in this world associate apple with "luxury" than the number of people associate "AP" with "luxury".....a result more due to apple being way more recognizable and mainstream and actually providing better products in its class....whereas most people haven't even heard of AP

I'd like to see AP own up to its mistake with the code launch like apple sort of has indirectly by shifting its commercial and product strategy. FHB directly admitted some of the failures with his interview with hodinkee/ben a few months ago, but I wish he would have realized that even the SS codes were priced too high.

if I was the CEO of AP, I would have priced the ss code 11 at around $17k USD, allowing most world wide clients to take home an AP at under $20k USD including sales tax/vat. I wouldn't care too much about short term profits.

for a brand that publicly claims that it's corporate strategy is to plan for the next 100 years instead of the standard 3-5 years, they should have known that a lower priced ss code would have likely produced a massive positive shift in sentiment. this would have likely have created "hype" for the code (not saying that's good or bad) but I think the "hype" would have settled into sustainable demand for the code for the next few decades. when you model out the LTV of each of these clients that were brought in via code, I bet you they will all have at least 2-3 pieces in their lifetimes to make up for any "lost profits" due to the lower priced codes. can even argue that any short term loss in profits is partially offset by marketing costs or UAC as hype would have been built organically for a $17k hot piece from AP.

What a well thought out and written post! I 1000% agree with everything you said.

My issue with the NEW codes (not even counting the initial launch which should have never happened) is exactly what you stated. If a three hander was priced at 17-18.9k and a Chrono was going for 22-24k you'd have a great value prop and a way to get new clients interested in the journey.

IMO the Code is priced $8-10k too high and basically outprices a RO with a superior established design language and a magical bracelet...

And then the sales tricks begin as the SAs have to deal with managing around this basic fact. That's a pure management fault, nothing else

[Audevache]

Not sure I fully get the concerns around the price.

A simple stamped dial 3-hand Patek 6007g, which I find in any meaningful way comparable to the Code (though less attractive IMHO), has a list price of $38K. The 15210OR is $35K, and in steel even $26K.

The only slightly cheaper alternative from a holy trinity brand is the VC Patrimony in RG at $25K.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Audevache

Not sure I fully get the concerns around the price.

A simple stamped dial 3-hand Patek 6007g, which I find in any meaningful way comparable to the Code (though less attractive IMHO), has a list price of $38K. The 15210OR is $35K, and in steel even $26K.

The only slightly cheaper alternative from a holy trinity brand is the VC Patrimony in RG at $25K.

Yeah, and looking at chronographs, the steel Code chrono is much cheaper than the cheapest (manual-winding) chronos from VC or PP.

Maybe it should be cheaper than the ROC by about the price of the bracelet, so $4k less than now. Would that really make any difference?

[messikens]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Yeah, and looking at chronographs, the steel Code chrono is much cheaper than the cheapest (manual-winding) chronos from VC or PP.

Maybe it should be cheaper than the ROC by about the price of the bracelet, so $4k less than now. Would that really make any difference?

Not far off but I'd argue that the Calatrava is first way more established than a new introduction by AP and a quintessential classic dress watch. The 6007 in my eyes is also wildly overpriced but at least has a quick strap system, arguably a better brand cachet (PP and Calatrava) and - esp from the initial models - a better design language and is thinner to boot.

If you compare it to the 6119, the case finishing is on par, it's a real thing dress watch and the market is still saying the PP is overpriced... But for a launch of a completely new line I would have suggested you need to price it more attractively rather than saying "this is new and therefore super premium"...


Last question : do you think the launch price was part of the environment in 2020/2021? I would think if you launched the CODE now (2024 market), the MSRP would have looked very differently!?

[srvrf]

Yes pricing was a bit ambitious to say the least. I agree that there would have probably been a better reception if they would have introduced Codes with current dials (I like them much more than the originals) at lower prices in steel first. Then kind of like what Patek did with the Aquanauts, they could have introduced the more complicated Codes later.

[NYG1121]

We can debate pricing all we want (and I agree it was priced too high). But the elephant in the room is that it really is not an attractive watch. It wears awkwardly and there is nothing that distinguishes it from competition (and looks significantly down market compared to competition). I understand the lugs, crystal etc are different but doesn't move the needle for me. And clearly I am not alone.

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

We can debate pricing all we want (and I agree it was priced too high). But the elephant in the room is that it really is not an attractive watch. It wears awkwardly and there is nothing that distinguishes it from competition (and looks significantly down market compared to competition). I understand the lugs, crystal etc are different but doesn't move the needle for me. And clearly I am not alone.

Have you seen one in person and wore it on your wrist?

You are probably the first person I have heard say the CODE wears "awkwardly." Pretty much universally it has been described as very comfortable and almost disappearing on the wrist (especially the steel models that are extremely light)

[NYG1121]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

Have you seen one in person and wore it on your wrist?

You are probably the first person I have heard say the CODE wears "awkwardly." Pretty much universally it has been described as very comfortable and almost disappearing on the wrist (especially the steel models that are extremely light)

Several times. It sits too high and lugs dont really conform to my wrist shape. But I have a smaller wrist

[Audevache]

Originally Posted by messikens

Not far off but I'd argue that the Calatrava is first way more established than a new introduction by AP and a quintessential classic dress watch. The 6007 in my eyes is also wildly overpriced but at least has a quick strap system, arguably a better brand cachet (PP and Calatrava) and - esp from the initial models - a better design language and is thinner to boot.

If you compare it to the 6119, the case finishing is on par, it's a real thing dress watch and the market is still saying the PP is overpriced... But for a launch of a completely new line I would have suggested you need to price it more attractively rather than saying "this is new and therefore super premium"...


Last question : do you think the launch price was part of the environment in 2020/2021? I would think if you launched the CODE now (2024 market), the MSRP would have looked very differently!?

I believe the original pricing intention in 2019 was to position the Code line as on par with the RO, a true alternative.

Unfortunately the crazy demand for steel sports watches and the App commercial strategy of recommending the Code as your first AP test to the RO really help establish that equivalence.

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

Several times. It sits too high and lugs dont really conform to my wrist shape. But I have a smaller wrist

Don't try on the diver, ROC or 42mm ROOs then. Could also try the new smaller CODEs

[NYG1121]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

Don't try on the diver, ROC or 42mm ROOs then. Could also try the new smaller CODEs

Those are different styles that are meant to wear bigger. I don’t know what the CODE is or what it is trying to be. Maybe thats part of the issue

[2000-NJDEVILS]

Classic example of supply and demand -
In this case, we’re in a steep decline on price that will not ever change - until the demand for 11:59 pieces gets to the right price - which is when buyers step in (in a very big way)…

[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

love my blue ss code chrono. unfortunately haven't worn it that much, but plan to in the fall/winter months. I would love to see some first party rubber straps made for it

problem with the code, besides the embarrassing launch NPIs, is probably the price. the skeletonized lugs, unique sapphire crystal, and octagonal mid case is very cool, but it doesn't warrant the code to be priced similarly to the RO (which has arguably the best looking bracelet ever made).

if the code launched today with the newer stamped dials on the SS and 38mm, the star wheel, QP, and ultra complicated pieces, it would have gotten far better reception.

additionally, if AP would have priced the SS 3 handers at low 20s and perhaps high teens even, it would have become a hype watch immediately with everyone praising the exact things mentioned above (lugs, unique crystal, and unique case construction) at an "affordable" $18k msrp or so. in this situation, I could see an alternative universe where young gen z and millennial clients are thrilled to purchase the code 11 first and then a RO second. probably would create a situation where the entry ss codes sell well above MSRP too.

I think AP dropped the ball there. they went high end in the beginning, went PM for all pieces including "entry" level complications like 3 handers w/ date, and had way too many options at launch (chronos, QPs, tourbillons etc). at the same time, AP pushed clients to purchase these pieces to get ROs later.

apple is obviously not on the same level as AP, but they also totally dropped the ball when they launched the Apple Watch. Angela Ahrendts from Burberry (from the fashion world just like FHB) was hired to push the AW in luxury territory. they launched a ridiculous $20k Apple Watch, marketed the stainless steel (and Hermes collab) as the hero product, and famously distinguished the sapphire glass on the front and back (sensor) of the AW as a reason to upgrade from the lower end aluminum watches (gorilla glass in front and back at the time). apple eventually realized this was an abysmal failure...Angela was removed and luckily Jeff Williams took over AW (ops guy and probably future CEO) and they eventually focused its attention on the aluminum models by the time series 4 was around (while still selling series 3 for a long time).

again, apple is not AP. AP is not apple. but one can reasonable conclude that more people in this world associate apple with "luxury" than the number of people associate "AP" with "luxury".....a result more due to apple being way more recognizable and mainstream and actually providing better products in its class....whereas most people haven't even heard of AP

I'd like to see AP own up to its mistake with the code launch like apple sort of has indirectly by shifting its commercial and product strategy. FHB directly admitted some of the failures with his interview with hodinkee/ben a few months ago, but I wish he would have realized that even the SS codes were priced too high.

if I was the CEO of AP, I would have priced the ss code 11 at around $17k USD, allowing most world wide clients to take home an AP at under $20k USD including sales tax/vat. I wouldn't care too much about short term profits.

for a brand that publicly claims that it's corporate strategy is to plan for the next 100 years instead of the standard 3-5 years, they should have known that a lower priced ss code would have likely produced a massive positive shift in sentiment. this would have likely have created "hype" for the code (not saying that's good or bad) but I think the "hype" would have settled into sustainable demand for the code for the next few decades. when you model out the LTV of each of these clients that were brought in via code, I bet you they will all have at least 2-3 pieces in their lifetimes to make up for any "lost profits" due to the lower priced codes. can even argue that any short term loss in profits is partially offset by marketing costs or UAC as hype would have been built organically for a $17k hot piece from AP.

Agree and disagree.

Agree that the cost of CODE could be re-aligned, especially as an "entry" into AP. At mid 20's to mid 30's at retail, there is definitely some decent competition for automatic three hand dress watches. But the competition is also similarly priced for automatic watches - whether it's the Patek 6007G (38) or 5227R (40), Lange 1815 (31.5), Vacheron Patrimony (31.5), and Rolex 1908/Cellini, FPJ Souverain (40). And save for FPJ, all dress like three handed automatic watches are selling at a discount to retail. I think there could be a price reduction across the industry!

Where I disagree is to say that the AP Code from a feature / craftsmanship perspective is not competitive to the other brands. Outside of all of the subjective comments and opinions (size, fit, brand prestige, etc), ultimately the CODE is based on a completely new movement and a completely new case and a completely new crystal in the last few years, which is also unique and different than other brands. We can't fault AP for recouping its investment.

Furthermore I also think that because the Royal Oak line is a better value than the CODE (some RO models are much lower in price) I think there is an opportunity to position the price differently vs RO to be more competitive.

In the end, while I do agree that there could be a price decrease for CODE, I would make the same exact argument for the other watchbrands and reinforce our local / global activities to succeed!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Octagon Guy]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

Those are different styles that are meant to wear bigger. I don’t know what the CODE is or what it is trying to be. Maybe thats part of the issue

The one reason I love the CODE so much is that my preference is always biased towards dress watches but my dressing is always super casual as in bermudas, t-shirt and flip flops. But I'm not a fan of sports models either, be it PP, AP, Rolex, etc.

The reason that draws me to CODE is that it looks dressy from top view but sporty from the side. Suits my preference and dressing perfectly.

[justdate]

It gives me the feel of being designed by a management team in a boardroom who voted on some ‘cool’ marketing features and then got another department to make it.

The design has no cohesion, makes no statement, there is no genius mind behind it, and it will be ‘slept on’ forever because of this; put simply it is good but not great, and for the money it needs to be great.