Any De Bethune owners/supporters?

[Armis]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

I just want to provide a quick update.

As I said in an earlier post someone from WB reached out to me about what happened and apologized profusely. I then also spoke to someone else in sales who was also an absolute delight to talk to.

I know a lot of us are huge watch nerds. I mean we must be if we are posting on a forum about it all the time. But I’m sure like most we can become disillusioned with the process for various reasons. This hobby can be a lot of fun but also legitimately frustrating. As far as WB is concerned they really went out of their way to make things right. There’s a lot of businesses that wouldn’t think twice about trying to do that. If this is the way they plan to operate going forward then I truly feel DB is in good hands.

That is great news, and very reassuring to read. To be fair, that does say a lot that WB did that, which is strongly encouraging.
At the same time, I appreciate that WB stepped forward on the forum here and is committed to doing right. Thank you for that.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Understood though I’d be willing to bet you a DB watch that the deposit required for our colleague here is nowhere near the cost of your said shipping costs.

You're just jelly. Someday when you grow up you can get a De Bethune too.

[Mattt]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I do like some of their references from an aesthetics point of view but I find their watches too pricey vis-a-vis what they offer. I am not able to see the value.

That's very curious. Personally, I think their suggested retail prices seem reasonable for a niche brand with these characteristics and production numbers.

I've held a couple of pieces in person and I could see their value. I loved the aesthetics.

I can justify DB pricing much more than AP for example...

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Mattt

That's very curious. Personally, I think their suggested retail prices seem reasonable for a niche brand with these characteristics and production numbers.

I've held a couple of pieces in person and I could see their value. I loved the aesthetics.

I can justify DB pricing much more than AP for example...

As you are aware, Patek 5236P is the most expensive PC in Patek's catalogue outside the 5740 (that's because more time is spent on the finishing of the Nautilus bracelet). The 5236P is a platinum PC that uses the new 31-260 movement with an additional in-line display module, for which three patent applications have been filed.

Comparatively, the latest DB25SQP perpetual calendar in titanium is priced at 145k, or more than 10% above the platinum 5236P, and approximately 10% more than the 5740 in full white gold. Both the DB25SQP and 5236P have no inward angles (sign of hand-finishing). In addition, DB is a relatively new company that started in 2010 and recently was acquired by WB, thus losing its independence. Patek is independent and has been around for a long time. There are other Patek PC like the 5327 and 5320 that are significantly cheaper than the 5236 and they are beautiful pieces too.

If you don't like the Patek comparison, the recently released DB25VTM was priced 10% more than the Journe TV, which is a magnificent watch that is extremely popular and made in very small quantities too.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I do like some of DB's watches (the smaller ones) and will support their products if they are priced less aggressively. My AD also carries DB and I'm happy to add a DB or 2 in my collection. For now, to me, there are many other watches from Patek, FPJ, RG, KV, Lange, AP and VC that I will choose over DB at MSRP.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by ajw45

You're just jelly. Someday when you grow up you can get a De Bethune too.

Hardly. I’m not interested in most of the designs for the Star Trek reasons although a few are fascinating concepts. Just not my taste for most. I’m not sure why it automatically goes to being jealous because I have a problem with paying a deposit. How about we stay elevated here my friend. I’m beginning to wonder if you have a connection w the seller.

I think the point stands about the deposit to shipping ratio. And moreover, the logic just doesn't make any sense even if that is their intention. If it is a refundable deposit, then the issue of shipping it from wherever to wherever is a sunk cost that is irrelevant to the potential buyer. It is clearly unrelated to that concern of moving pieces. I’m glad the new owner is happy though.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Hardly. I’m not interested in most of the designs for the Star Trek reasons although a few are fascinating concepts. Just not my taste for most. I’m not sure why it automatically goes to being jealous because I have a problem with paying a deposit. How about we stay elevated here my friend. I’m beginning to wonder if you have a connection w the seller.

I think the point stands about the deposit to shipping ratio. And moreover, the logic just doesn't make any sense even if that is their intention. If it is a refundable deposit, then the issue of shipping it from wherever to wherever is a sunk cost that is irrelevant to the potential buyer. It is clearly unrelated to that concern of moving pieces. I’m glad the new owner is happy though.

Totally connected. I'm a DB owner and a WB customer. Since this thread asked for actual experience from owners and supporters of the brand I think I'm in the right place. My question is why are you in this thread other than to troll? You haven't added anything to the OPs question, you're not interested in the designs of the watches, and you keep casting shade about this shipping deposit when you know nothing about the costs. This thread has been really positive for a few folks, I don't understand why you're trying to make a problem out of something that isn't for actual customers. You want "elevated"? How about you let everyone just be happy with their watches and the fact that WB is reaching out to folks and making things right.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

As you are aware, Patek 5236P is the most expensive PC in Patek's catalogue outside the 5740 (that's because more time is spent on the finishing of the Nautilus bracelet). The 5236P is a platinum PC that uses the new 31-260 movement with an additional in-line display module, for which three patent applications have been filed.

Comparatively, the latest DB25SQP perpetual calendar in titanium is priced at 145k, or more than 10% above the platinum 5236P, and approximately 10% more than the 5740 in full white gold. Both the DB25SQP and 5236P have no inward angles (sign of hand-finishing). In addition, DB is a relatively new company that started in 2010 and recently was acquired by WB, thus losing its independence. Patek is independent and has been around for a long time. There are other Patek PC like the 5327 and 5320 that are significantly cheaper than the 5236 and they are beautiful pieces too.

If you don't like the Patek comparison, the recently released DB25VTM was priced 10% more than the Journe TV, which is a magnificent watch that is extremely popular and made in very small quantities too.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I do like some of DB's watches (the smaller ones) and will support their products if they are priced less aggressively. My AD also carries DB and I'm happy to add a DB or 2 in my collection. For now, to me, there are many other watches from Patek, FPJ, RG, KV, Lange, AP and VC that I will choose over DB at MSRP.

You make some interesting points.

I also much prefer the smaller sized DBs. There’s a lot of cool watches but some are just way too big for me.

I’m curious what you think about the finishing/in house aspect of DB compared to some of the brands you mentioned.

What is true there are just so many amazing watches out there that it can be hard to choose sometimes. I love the brands you mentioned but if I could add a DB to my collection at retail I definitely would. It just has that combination of fun/futuristic/high art that I love.

Thanks for sharing your opinion on this.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

I’m curious what you think about the finishing/in house aspect of DB compared to some of the brands you mentioned.

I have never put a loupe over any of the DB movements but based on what I see online and in videos, the finishing on the DB25SQP is at most comparable to the finishing in Patek's and AP's workhorse movements (eg the 324, 330, 240). These are all predominantly machine-finished products.

Patek has hand-finishing on their tourbillon movements though while the finishing on the DB25VTM looks machined.

In terms of the brands I listed earlier, the ones that I think are best finished and consistent across their model lines are Akrivia, Philippe Dufour and Kari Voutilainen. Romain Gauthier is a close 4th (their Continuum's finishing is not outstanding). Lange, Vacheron and Patek are in the next tier as I can see hand-finishing in their best product offerings. FPJ is mostly machined-finished but their decorations and aesthetics are lovely, which is similar to Gronefeld. AP is here too. Sorry but I don't consider DB's finishing on their movements as a strength. If I ever buy the DB25SQP, it will be due to the overall aesthetics of the dial (plus guilloche) and the 40mm size.

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I have never put a loupe over any of the DB movements but based on what I see online and in videos, the finishing on the DB25SQP is at most comparable to the finishing in Patek's and AP's workhorse movements (eg the 324, 330, 240). These are all predominantly machine-finished products.

Patek has hand-finishing on their tourbillon movements though while the finishing on the DB25VTM looks machined.

In terms of the brands I listed earlier, the ones that I think are best finished and consistent across their model lines are Akrivia, Philippe Dufour and Kari Voutilainen. Romain Gauthier is a close 4th (their Continuum's finishing is not outstanding). Lange, Vacheron and Patek are in the next tier as I can see hand-finishing in their best product offerings. FPJ is mostly machined-finished but their decorations and aesthetics are lovely, which is similar to Gronefeld. AP is here too. Sorry but I don't consider DB's finishing on their movements as a strength. If I ever buy the DB25SQP, it will be due to the overall aesthetics of the dial (plus guilloche) and the 40mm size.

Interesting.

As always I really appreciate your input and opinions. I’ve only been able to see a few of these in person but not all of them so it’s nice to see you break it down this way.

[raclaims]

Don’t forget greubel forsey on that list !

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by raclaims

Don’t forget greubel forsey on that list !

Never forget Gruebel. The finishing on them is top tier for sure. I do wish they were a little better priced though 😢.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I have never put a loupe over any of the DB movements but based on what I see online and in videos, the finishing on the DB25SQP is at most comparable to the finishing in Patek's and AP's workhorse movements (eg the 324, 330, 240). These are all predominantly machine-finished products.

Patek has hand-finishing on their tourbillon movements though while the finishing on the DB25VTM looks machined.

In terms of the brands I listed earlier, the ones that I think are best finished and consistent across their model lines are Akrivia, Philippe Dufour and Kari Voutilainen. Romain Gauthier is a close 4th (their Continuum's finishing is not outstanding). Lange, Vacheron and Patek are in the next tier as I can see hand-finishing in their best product offerings. FPJ is mostly machined-finished but their decorations and aesthetics are lovely, which is similar to Gronefeld. AP is here too. Sorry but I don't consider DB's finishing on their movements as a strength. If I ever buy the DB25SQP, it will be due to the overall aesthetics of the dial (plus guilloche) and the 40mm size.

I agree, the movement side of the DB QP is not beautiful, I'd rather have the micro rotor PP even if the prices were the. The base automatic is more a sporting/technical movement which does have some cool features for durability and shock but none of the traditional finishing or interesting to look at architecture which is all hidden. In fact, there's not that much to look at on the back side of most DB watches short of the maxi chrono which is actually really beautiful but not traditional

DB is not super traditional when it comes to finishing, I would characterize it as super clean but not highly decorated. Lots of black polish, brushing, and blasting, little in the way of traditional flourishes like interior and exterior angles, devils tails, batman horns, etc. However, you also won't find any faux machined anglage, fresh out of the cnc unfinished nooks and crannies, or stamped guilloche.

One thing they do consistently well imho is their hands - their hands are all fully hand finished and as good as the best of them, finished top, sides, bottom, reliefs, hand bent/shaped, etc. The minutes hand on my DB28 might have the only hand done sharp angles on the whole watch. The second is balance bridges, on many DB28s you'll see fully mirror polished balance bridges, sometimes fully rounded like a Kari or skeletonized. Finally, it's the mirror polish, dials, bridges, cases, excellent. Interestingly, the bullet shaped tips of the lugs are hand shaped and finished to get the sharp transitions from the rounded bullets to the articulating arms.

I think there's a philosophy around finishing through creative engineering more than traditional handwork. For example, their 3D moons are ridiculous - totally mirror polished and made out of two halves that are so perfectly machined they fit together seamlessly. Similarly, rather than fat rounded anglage on bridges, DB likes to actually encircle the bridges with separate mirror polished surround, the idea being they can execute some deep (machined) cotes de geneve or microlight engraving and then essentially cap the edges with a perfectly machined to fit fully polished surround as a separate component. This removes the steps in the edge of the bridges you might find in traditional anglage that you see between geneva stripes and allows them to try other decorations as well. In this case, there's less traditional handwork, instead of one bridge that's been labored over for hours, the DB bridge might be built up from a few components that fit perfectly together but have different finishes.

The one area that DB does short change I think for the price is the wheels. They are clean but the internal spokes for example are not decorated like a KV or even a VC for similar or less money. While the DB style is very different, wheels are wheels. DB does up their level of finishing of the wheels with more expensive models like the dead beat tourbillons and such so they can do it but at a much higher price point.

I think in person with under a loupe you will miss some traditional finishing but what is there is well done.

[Ichiran]

Apologies I have omitted Greubel Forsey and Credor because I'm not sure exactly how to assess them.

Greubel Forsey is not big on the traditional anglage but I can see the very nicely executed flying V arch pair on most of their modern collections (dial side). They claim each arch pair took 2 weeks to finish by hands. I think that can be done by machine (due to the large size and smooth curvature) and shouldn't take 2 weeks each. I'm not doubting them though as their technicians might really have taken that long to do a job that can be done by machine. I remember their Hand Made 1 did not have a lot of anglage and it's really difficult to ascertain how much of it is handmade.

For Credor, the anglage is there but the issue is they don't have inward angles on their anglage. I think they could have mirrored their Genevan counterparts and carve them to showcase their flair. I understand some of their watchmakers went to the prestigious Genevan watch schools for education so maybe it was a lack of awareness from the management as to how these sharp angles might help their product better.

I didn't include brands like MB&F because they completely outsource their finishing to a 3rd party.

Above are just my observations and opinion. Some say finishing can be demonstrated in other ways but to me, if a certain finishing can be done with a machine, then it is very hard to tell how much human efforts have gone into it.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by ajw45

One thing they do consistently well imho is their hands - their hands are all fully hand finished and as good as the best of them, finished top, sides, bottom, reliefs, hand bent/shaped, etc. The minutes hand on my DB28 might have the only hand done sharp angles on the whole watch. The second is balance bridges, on many DB28s you'll see fully mirror polished balance bridges, sometimes fully rounded like a Kari or skeletonized. Finally, it's the mirror polish, dials, bridges, cases, excellent. Interestingly, the bullet shaped tips of the lugs are hand shaped and finished to get the sharp transitions from the rounded bullets to the articulating arms.

I think there's a philosophy around finishing through creative engineering more than traditional handwork. For example, their 3D moons are ridiculous - totally mirror polished and made out of two halves that are so perfectly machined they fit together seamlessly. Similarly, rather than fat rounded anglage on bridges, DB likes to actually encircle the bridges with separate mirror polished surround, the idea being they can execute some deep (machined) cotes de geneve or microlight engraving and then essentially cap the edges with a perfectly machined to fit fully polished surround as a separate component. This removes the steps in the edge of the bridges you might find in traditional anglage that you see between geneva stripes and allows them to try other decorations as well. In this case, there's less traditional handwork, instead of one bridge that's been labored over for hours, the DB bridge might be built up from a few components that fit perfectly together but have different finishes.

Thanks for your well-thought-out reply and I do like many things on their dial side, especially the guilloche, hands and overall aesthetics which I thought are harmoniously executed.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

I know a lot of us are huge watch nerds. I mean we must be if we are posting on a forum about it all the time. But I’m sure like most we can become disillusioned with the process for various reasons. This hobby can be a lot of fun but also legitimately frustrating.

Agree about the past few years being mind-boggling at times. It makes me feel old saying this, yet decades ago I loved visiting NYC shopping because if one store didn't have it, their other location did and a runner would bring it to the store in 15 minutes. Sure there was the occasional rarity you knew would take time to produce, but it was usually a very reasonable wait by today's standards.

Time marches on. Both expenses and demand have greatly grown since the 1990s as has the creativity and diversity of horology. Yet yes, the current market can be a challenge trying to keep everyone happy. Especially on the highest end, where the most passionate of us 'play' and the rarest of the rare are obtainable (as possible).

PS: On an earlier post by ???, a correction as Max said MB&F makes ~300 timepieces a year. Peak at 350 / yr is all he desires.

PPS: Lots of exceptional info on this thread, love TRF

[Armis]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

PPS: Lots of exceptional info on this thread, love TRF

+++1 This thread has been a great source of practical knowledge and insights at a key horological juncture for me. Special thanks to FG, AJW, and Ichiran whose experiences and respectful exchanges have been extremely valuable.
Thank you guys for that.

[ajw45]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

PS: On an earlier post by ???, a correction as Max said MB&F makes ~300 timepieces a year. Peak at 350 / yr is all he desires.

Yeah, my bad, maybe that was wishful thinking so my evo allocation might appear sooner.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by ajw45

Totally connected. I'm a DB owner and a WB customer. Since this thread asked for actual experience from owners and supporters of the brand I think I'm in the right place. My question is why are you in this thread other than to troll? You haven't added anything to the OPs question, you're not interested in the designs of the watches, and you keep casting shade about this shipping deposit when you know nothing about the costs. This thread has been really positive for a few folks, I don't understand why you're trying to make a problem out of something that isn't for actual customers. You want "elevated"? How about you let everyone just be happy with their watches and the fact that WB is reaching out to folks and making things right.

My man. Chill with the emotion. Again resorting to the troll concept. We all don’t have to agree with everything in order to post here. Moderators please verify if I missed something essential on this forum. No need to keep making it personal. There’s nothing wrong about questioning the practices of a seller much less larger organization. I’ve dealt w WB before. Stop with the presumptions. Is this the first thread where some ppl disagreed or had different viewpoints? Our new owner colleague here wasn’t happy about it which is what really matters.
Aside from that I repeat I like the forward design but some styles are too space like but I know their rarity and uniqueness seem appealing to many.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by ajw45

Yeah, my bad, maybe that was wishful thinking so my evo allocation might appear sooner.

Totally cool... and an early congrats to you on getting Evo allocation

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With so many affluent collectors globally, at some point someone will be very happy... while others will complain they can't get ____. Even a great relationship with the manufacturer or AD, if an independent produces only 500 pieces across 8 models and there are 1500 very affluent collectors out of a population of 8,000,000,000....

We've all immensely benefitted from the recent bubble, which has supported some wonderful new horology from various manufacturers and innovations that can be amortized.

[jw0n]

We have a healthy number of DB owners in this side of the world. Unfortunately, these are just about impossible to get from an AD now.

[Armis]

WOW, that is a nice demonstration of the impressiveness and spectrum of dB offerings! Thanks for sharing this.

[Mattt]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

As you are aware, Patek 5236P is the most expensive PC in Patek's catalogue outside the 5740 (that's because more time is spent on the finishing of the Nautilus bracelet). The 5236P is a platinum PC that uses the new 31-260 movement with an additional in-line display module, for which three patent applications have been filed.

Comparatively, the latest DB25SQP perpetual calendar in titanium is priced at 145k, or more than 10% above the platinum 5236P, and approximately 10% more than the 5740 in full white gold. Both the DB25SQP and 5236P have no inward angles (sign of hand-finishing). In addition, DB is a relatively new company that started in 2010 and recently was acquired by WB, thus losing its independence. Patek is independent and has been around for a long time. There are other Patek PC like the 5327 and 5320 that are significantly cheaper than the 5236 and they are beautiful pieces too.

If you don't like the Patek comparison, the recently released DB25VTM was priced 10% more than the Journe TV, which is a magnificent watch that is extremely popular and made in very small quantities too.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I do like some of DB's watches (the smaller ones) and will support their products if they are priced less aggressively. My AD also carries DB and I'm happy to add a DB or 2 in my collection. For now, to me, there are many other watches from Patek, FPJ, RG, KV, Lange, AP and VC that I will choose over DB at MSRP.

Thanks a lot for your input and for taking the time to reply in a good manner.

If we look into retail prices it is now clear to me that DB may be a little bit off compared with other brands and complications.

When I had the opportunity to see DeBethune in person it was around the time PP 5164a was being sold for around $120-140k. So in comparison, DB-28 seemed fairly priced, as you can't get either PP popular models or DB at retail either.

All this assuming "market price", is the real price.

[Mattt]

Originally Posted by jw0n

We have a healthy number of DB owners in this side of the world. Unfortunately, these are just about impossible to get from an AD now.

Very nice.

[bondtoys]

I as well had a very disappointing experience with Watchbox just recently and have reached out to the given email

mweitz@thewatchbox.com

[Armis]

With my DB28XP now in hand, I wanted to follow up this great thread with my own initial impressions. I was able to get this piece from an AD that last year was due to receive this piece at the end of this year i.e. now. As such, I was able to get this at msrp. As a titanium piece it is light on the wrist, but it certainly has a clear presence. The high polish delta with the blued hands pulls me in first, then I take notice of the finer dial details. I’m happy this version came with the fully blued hands, as opposed to the earlier version with the blued tips (as in the picture under the watch). Looking at it objectively from afar (in a mirror) while on the wrist, you can’t help but acknowledge it’s unique, inter-galactic-like aesthetic (which either you like or don’t), but still with a clear ‘traditional’ time-telling mechanism ie hour and minute hands. I find this sort of dichotomy to be intriguing and cool, and it’s actually this dichotomy that [to me] characterizes the DB28 series had me thinking “when can I get my next one?!” :) This XP series was attractive to me because of a thinner/flatter construction, which gives me more options with which to wear it. Additionally, I can certainly appreciate the work/effort that goes into an otherwise ‘simpler’ (time only) piece like this one, especially when you experience the floating lugs, but I can also see why other collectors might consider the price point questionably high for the detail of work. But I believe the more complicated DB28 pieces would make a stronger impression on them in the metal. On the whole, I am very happy to have the chance to own a DB and have been in touch with the main DB salon in Geneva about next pieces. Importantly, however, for convenience and communication since I’m US based, I would prefer and hope I can deal with Watchbox moving forward. I had reached out and connected a while back with respect to a specific watch that I requested as soon as it was released, but I’m not sure where I stand as far as that’s concerned right now. To be fair, I have learned that WB is very busy trying to establish their infrastructures and processes, so I can appreciate the challenges of any new venture. How they manage existing and new DB enthusiasts will be a key test, based on some of the sentiments from just this small forum thread.
Nonetheless, thanks for allowing me to share my initial impressions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FrugalGreubel]

Originally Posted by Armis

With my DB28XP now in hand, I wanted to follow up this great thread with my own initial impressions. I was able to get this piece from an AD that last year was due to receive this piece at the end of this year i.e. now. As such, I was able to get this at msrp. As a titanium piece it is light on the wrist, but it certainly has a clear presence. The high polish delta with the blued hands pulls me in first, then I take notice of the finer dial details. I’m happy this version came with the fully blued hands, as opposed to the earlier version with the blued tips (as in the picture under the watch). Looking at it objectively from afar (in a mirror) while on the wrist, you can’t help but acknowledge it’s unique, inter-galactic-like aesthetic (which either you like or don’t), but still with a clear ‘traditional’ time-telling mechanism ie hour and minute hands. I find this sort of dichotomy to be intriguing and cool, and it’s actually this dichotomy that [to me] characterizes the DB28 series had me thinking “when can I get my next one?!” :) This XP series was attractive to me because of a thinner/flatter construction, which gives me more options with which to wear it. Additionally, I can certainly appreciate the work/effort that goes into an otherwise ‘simpler’ (time only) piece like this one, especially when you experience the floating lugs, but I can also see why other collectors might consider the price point questionably high for the detail of work. But I believe the more complicated DB28 pieces would make a stronger impression on them in the metal. On the whole, I am very happy to have the chance to own a DB and have been in touch with the main DB salon in Geneva about next pieces. Importantly, however, for convenience and communication since I’m US based, I would prefer and hope I can deal with Watchbox moving forward. I had reached out and connected a while back with respect to a specific watch that I requested as soon as it was released, but I’m not sure where I stand as far as that’s concerned right now. To be fair, I have learned that WB is very busy trying to establish their infrastructures and processes, so I can appreciate the challenges of any new venture. How they manage existing and new DB enthusiasts will be a key test, based on some of the sentiments from just this small forum thread.
Nonetheless, thanks for allowing me to share my initial impressions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Congratulations on the watch. I’m so happy you were able to get it. That’s such a unique and stunning piece. I really enjoyed your write up. It’s nice to see watches get into the hands of people who really appreciate and enjoy the watch instead of for clout or to flip. Please enjoy it and wear it in good health. Also definitely post more photos when you have a chance.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by FrugalGreubel

Congratulations on the watch. I’m so happy you were able to get it. That’s such a unique and stunning piece. I really enjoyed your write up. It’s nice to see watches get into the hands of people who really appreciate and enjoy the watch instead of for clout or to flip. Please enjoy it and wear it in good health. Also definitely post more photos when you have a chance.

Most certainly I will, my friend. Thank you for your kind sentiments.

[shafran]

Beautiful watch. I have found watchbox great to deal with. You need to find 1 contact person and stay with them.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by shafran

Beautiful watch. I have found watchbox great to deal with. You need to find 1 contact person and stay with them.

Thank you, Shafran. I will take that advice and follow up with the person I’d communicated with last year.

[shafran]

Originally Posted by Armis

Thank you, Shafran. I will take that advice and follow up with the person I’d communicated with last year.

this is mine