Dealing with Bill Wylie a/k/a "425ranger"

[gqllc]

I read the strings of emails and it seems Andrew and Bill AGREED on $5200 as Andrew tried to get a lower price initially (as EVERY buyer has tried to do with me as well) and Bill said he wanted to trade but 5200 would get him where he needs to be to get his GMT.
Andrew was wanting to pay via wire OR check.
Then Bill changed his mind and said He can't do it. Sellers remorse
This happens all the time either buyer or seller has remorse.
Then Andrew got upset over Bill canceling the deal AFTER agreeing to $5200
Was Andrew pulling the lawyer card after wards? Sure and maybe it was a jerky thing to do, but Bill should have stuck to his guns in the beginning and saying TRADE only. Andrew was offering to pay in way that was convienent for the seller.
This kinda thing happens quite frequently.
I was just wanting to trade my Sea dweller for a Sub C and Andrew emailed me making an offer and I politely declined and there was no harm or foul and Andrew was very cordial.
I think what upset Andrew was in addition to Bill backing out was his potential missed opportunities on other Sea Dwellers that popped up. I feel his pain as this has happened to me as well.
Bottom line is I think Bill is to blame here. Andrew was willing to hold up his end of the contract and so what if he was a jerk after wards...he probably would not have been if Bill kept his part of the bargain...just my humble opinion...

[Mosco]

I think in the name of fairness, I must admit that I had a not-so-pleasant experience with Andrew (ATH) myself. While I hate digging up old stuff, it is only right, so that we can get the true character of both people at hand.

I had a watch (UN Perpetual) listed on the forums about a month ago. Andrew offered me a trade, and I simply did not agree with his number. I told him what I valued his watch at. While it may have been a bit lower that market price - I am a dealer, so some margin has to me worked in when I make an offer.

He said that he'd buy as many as I could find at that price. At that moment I had 3 comparables, and offered them to him at the lowest possible margin I could, together in a heavily discounted package, making less than $270/watch. He said he wanted to buy at the price I was offering him on his trade. My response was definitely smart-ass, but was his response warranted - you be the judge:

Me (after he wanted me to sell him the watches at my cost): "Ok, when CaliberSwiss becomes a charity, you'll be the first to know "

ATH: "Twit? Go f#@k yourself asshole. I'm an attorney who spends about $250k yr on watches. You wanted to jack me around and pay wholesale for my watch and charge me full retail for yours. I called you on it and now you want to act like a smartass. I'll male sure I let people know how you do business. "

Naturally, a testy exchange ensued. I have never had such a difficult time negotiating with people. If we don't come together on numbers, we just try again another time, parting amicably. Seems not to be an option with this gentleman.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by gqllc

I read the strings of emails and it seems Andrew and Bill AGREED on $5200 as Andrew tried to get a lower price initially (as EVERY buyer has tried to do with me as well) and Bill said he wanted to trade but 5200 would get him where he needs to be to get his GMT.
Andrew was wanting to pay via wire OR check.
Then Bill changed his mind and said He can't do it. Sellers remorse
This happens all the time either buyer or seller has remorse.
Then Andrew got upset over Bill canceling the deal AFTER agreeing to $5200
Was Andrew pulling the lawyer card after wards? Sure and maybe it was a jerky thing to do, but Bill should have stuck to his guns in the beginning and saying TRADE only. Andrew was offering to pay in way that was convienent for the seller.
This kinda thing happens quite frequently.
I was just wanting to trade my Sea dweller for a Sub C and Andrew emailed me making an offer and I politely declined and there was no harm or foul and Andrew was very cordial.
I think what upset Andrew was in addition to Bill backing out was his potential missed opportunities on other Sea Dwellers that popped up. I feel his pain as this has happened to me as well.
Bottom line is I think Bill is to blame here. Andrew was willing to hold up his end of the contract and so what if he was a jerk after wards...he probably would not have been if Bill kept his part of the bargain...just my humble opinion...

All valid points Steve but absolutely no need for the "jerkish" behaviour after the fact.

In my book it shows the true color of a person.

[moishlashen]

Originally Posted by gqllc

I read the strings of emails and it seems Andrew and Bill AGREED on $5200 as Andrew tried to get a lower price initially (as EVERY buyer has tried to do with me as well) and Bill said he wanted to trade but 5200 would get him where he needs to be to get his GMT.
Andrew was wanting to pay via wire OR check.
Then Bill changed his mind and said He can't do it. Sellers remorse
This happens all the time either buyer or seller has remorse.
Then Andrew got upset over Bill canceling the deal AFTER agreeing to $5200
Was Andrew pulling the lawyer card after wards? Sure and maybe it was a jerky thing to do, but Bill should have stuck to his guns in the beginning and saying TRADE only. Andrew was offering to pay in way that was convienent for the seller.
This kinda thing happens quite frequently.
I was just wanting to trade my Sea dweller for a Sub C and Andrew emailed me making an offer and I politely declined and there was no harm or foul and Andrew was very cordial.
I think what upset Andrew was in addition to Bill backing out was his potential missed opportunities on other Sea Dwellers that popped up. I feel his pain as this has happened to me as well.
Bottom line is I think Bill is to blame here. Andrew was willing to hold up his end of the contract and so what if he was a jerk after wards...he probably would not have been if Bill kept his part of the bargain...just my humble opinion...

Did you miss the part about Bill's CU not able to take wire?

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Mosco

I think in the name of fairness, I must admit that I had a not-so-pleasant experience with Andrew (ATH) myself. While I hate digging up old stuff, it is only right, so that we can get the true character of both people at hand.

I had a watch (UN Perpetual) listed on the forums about a month ago. Andrew offered me a trade, and I simply did not agree with his number. I told him what I valued his watch at. While it may have been a bit lower that market price - I am a dealer, so some margin has to me worked in when I make an offer.

He said that he'd buy as many as I could find at that price. At that moment I had 3 comparables, and offered them to him at the lowest possible margin I could, together in a heavily discounted package, making less than $270/watch. He said he wanted to buy at the price I was offering him on his trade. My response was definitely smart-ass, but was his response warranted - you be the judge:

Me (after he wanted me to sell him the watches at my cost): "Ok, when CaliberSwiss becomes a charity, you'll be the first to know "

ATH: "Twit? Go f#@k yourself asshole. I'm an attorney who spends about $250k yr on watches. You wanted to jack me around and pay wholesale for my watch and charge me full retail for yours. I called you on it and now you want to act like a smartass. I'll male sure I let people know how you do business. "

Naturally, a testy exchange ensued. I have never had such a difficult time negotiating with people. If we don't come together on numbers, we just try again another time, parting amicably. Seems not to be an option with this gentleman.[

I admire you for your calmness Greg and after all that you still call him a gentleman?

[jnkay]

At first, I thought this was a case of two people being human, and humans are flawed and imperfect, which is why you have to allow for a bit of imperfection in life. But after MonBK's post, it now clear that Andrew has some serious anger issues he has to deal with.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Mosco

I think in the name of fairness, I must admit that I had a not-so-pleasant experience with Andrew (ATH) myself. While I hate digging up old stuff, it is only right, so that we can get the true character of both people at hand.

I had a watch (UN Perpetual) listed on the forums about a month ago. Andrew offered me a trade, and I simply did not agree with his number. I told him what I valued his watch at. While it may have been a bit lower that market price - I am a dealer, so some margin has to me worked in when I make an offer.

He said that he'd buy as many as I could find at that price. At that moment I had 3 comparables, and offered them to him at the lowest possible margin I could, together in a heavily discounted package, making less than $270/watch. He said he wanted to buy at the price I was offering him on his trade. My response was definitely smart-ass, but was his response warranted - you be the judge:

Me (after he wanted me to sell him the watches at my cost): "Ok, when CaliberSwiss becomes a charity, you'll be the first to know "

ATH: "Twit? Go f#@k yourself asshole. I'm an attorney who spends about $250k yr on watches. You wanted to jack me around and pay wholesale for my watch and charge me full retail for yours. I called you on it and now you want to act like a smartass. I'll male sure I let people know how you do business. "

Naturally, a testy exchange ensued. I have never had such a difficult time negotiating with people. If we don't come together on numbers, we just try again another time, parting amicably. Seems not to be an option with this gentleman.

What you didn't realise is that he's TRF's mystery shopper.

We send him out to see who's giving the best customer service.

.... and you failed my son.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

What you didn't realise is that he's TRF's mystery shopper.

We send him out to see who's giving the best customer service.

.... and you failed my son.

Hey Paul, send him to me and I'll show you what will happen.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

What you didn't realise is that he's TRF's mystery shopper.

We send him out to see who's giving the best customer service.

.... and you failed my son.

That was only about 1/10th of the exchange, but the rest is irrelevant. Point is - seems like he is quick to throw in the 'lawyer' card, quick to call people names, and doesn't have much reserves when it comes to simple diplomacy.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Hey Paul, send him to me and I'll show you what will happen.

We'll send his supervisor to you.

She's a real demon, it's safe to say.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

We'll send his supervisor to you.

She's a real demon, it's safe to say.

Thanks buddy, I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to it.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Thanks buddy, I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to it.

Call Sink - this week is his turn

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Call Sink - this week is his turn

Has he been pre-warned, if not I'll give him a call.

[(DMB)]

Holy crap, all this over a watch? First off, I have done deals with Bill and have witnessed dozens of others at different forums.

Bill is a trusted seller, and I would not hesitate to send him a watch before receiving payment. That's how solid his reputation is. When dealing with strangers (especially low post count strangers) sometimes a "gut feeling" is all you have to go on. In any event, nothing is worth losing 5K in a scam.

Even if it means some high powered attorney gets his panties in a twist. Being disappointed from a sale falling through is one thing, making an ass out of yourself and smearing a good guy's rep is another.

The funny thing is I know Bill personally and there is NO WAY this guy would talk to him like that in person (for long), if you know what I mean. Watch nerds sure can be a strange lot, and apparently a keyboard has much the same effect on many of them as tequila.

Ten feet tall and bulletproof.

[Mosco]

Kudos to the brass for making an appropriate change to the title

[gqllc]

Originally Posted by moishlashen

Did you miss the part about Bill's CU not able to take wire?

Yes and he offered to do a check instead.

[mrbill2mrbill2]

Andrew

Relax. Your threats are not making you any friends at TRF.

I am sorry your deal fell through. But, life is too short to let such things raise your blood pressure. Remember, things happen for a reason. There may be a better deal out there for you.

[gqllc]

Originally Posted by (DMB)

Holy crap, all this over a watch?
Even if it means some high powered attorney gets his panties in a twist. Being disappointed from a sale falling through is one thing, making an ass out of yourself and smearing a good guy's rep is another.

I do agree with this 100%
I did not say that Andrew being a jerk after wards was appropriate and certainly extremely dissappointed in what Mosco posted from Andrew. Totally unneccessary. I was merely pointing out the way the transaction seemed to appear. No excuses for the behavior following. There is a difference between "being a jerk" and "being an a**hole"

[kareemthedream33]

I'll be the first to say it : Andrew is not a lawyer who spends 250k a year on watches. He has no sense of decorum whatsoever and his conduct does not indicate someone who is so successful as a lawyer to have that much disposable income. LOL 250K a year on watches??? That sounds like the budget of a Saudi prince, not an American lawyer.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it. And since Andrew seems like a massive douche who has apparently insulted a few of my online buddies, including Greg, I don't really have a problem calling him out on that point.

[SkyKing31]

My mom is a Judge .... She laughs at people that tell her that they are lawyers .. Oh well, I hope everyone can calm down and allow cooler heads prevail .. This is a great forum and many great members .. Watches are a dime a dozen now days .. lets all have a drink and allow the situation cool down

[moishlashen]

Originally Posted by gqllc

Yes and he offered to do a check instead.

Just read that so you're correct. Even so if seller is not comfortable he's not comfortable.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by SkyKing31

My mom is a Judge .... She laughs at people that tell her that they are lawyers .. Oh well, I hope everyone can calm down and allow cooler heads prevail .. This is a great forum and many great members .. Watches are a dime a dozen now days .. lets all have a drink and allow the situation cool down

Is her name Judy?

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Mosco

Kudos to the brass for making an appropriate change to the title

It just seemed more fitting.

[SkyKing31]

Nah MonBK .. My mom is better looking

[kareemthedream33]

Originally Posted by MonBK

Is her name Judy?

Lol, she has a house right down the waterway from mine in Naples with a 15 million dollar yacht named Miss Conduct. So if that's his mom's vessel, let's have our next GTG on it.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by SkyKing31

Nah MonBK .. My mom is better looking

Totally agree, beautiful woman.

You might want to delete it before VTC Paul sees it.

[usbzoso]

gotta love peoples dirty laundry

[SkyKing31]

I keep that picture over my fireplace .. Reminds me that I better behave myself during the day .. LOL

[gqllc]

Originally Posted by SkyKing31

Nah MonBK .. My mom is better looking

OH GREAT...now another woman for VTC to write a letter too...

[jimyritz]

Originally Posted by moishlashen

Bill has been around the forums for a long time and he has been a rock solid guy in every way shape and form. I will stake my long time stellar forum rep on it.

He didn't want to accept wire-its his choice and we've all been in these sales transactions when stuff flies fast and furiously without thought and then when thought catches up we have reservations.

Bill is not the kind of guy who would nix a deal in order to make more money either.

========

Well said Chris...Bill is about as solid as it gets...


Mike