Ceramic is sooooo brittle...

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by Danand

For those that have read my rants about criticism of ceramics I'm sorry in advance.
Ceramics are brittle WHEN UNSUPPORTED. The bezel is designed to support the insert so it is in fact very strong. Those with ceramic inserts will notice the bezel completely covers/guards the insert edge (the vulnerable part).
An analogy of he strength is a glass table- if you hit the glass with a hammer it will break easily. Now put that same piece of glass on a support such as plywood and see how much harder you can pound on the glass with the hammer before it will break.
Sigh- I really wish people would research properties of ceramics.before questioning their use as bezel inserts. They have been used in watches for quite a while now, with good results. And I do believe Rolex has a good idea of what they are doing( or I wouldn't have bought the watch).
Rant over. Cheers all! Enjoy hose ceramics and don't baby them!

interesting perspective, thanks.

what about the new daytona's exposed ceramic edge, then?

[raskal83]

Originally Posted by Art161

Ceramic is brittle. Diamonds are brittle. The odds are that when either takes a hit, it will survive. But if either takes a hit in just the wrong spot, it is history, unlike aluminum.

+1 Ceramic and diamonds are brittle. They are brittle only in the case when they are struck at a certain degree.

[WyoWatch]

Isn't this what insurance is for? Even if it isn't insured and it costs you $800-$1000 to replace an insert (ludicrous pricing BTW), isn't that just a cost of ownership risk factor that you should consider before buying? I did and I certainly wouldn't like it if I shattered my bezel but if I do (mine are insured) I am prepared to deal with it since I have accepted it as a possibility of the cost of ownership. Just my .02

[cmr]

Originally Posted by Art161

Ceramic is brittle. Diamonds are brittle. The odds are that when either takes a hit, it will survive. But if either takes a hit in just the wrong spot, it is history, unlike aluminum.

if i were wearing an older model to work in i would have been through a dozen or so anodized aluminum inserts by now. my ceramic insert doesn't have a mark on it. i have nicks in the ss bezel but nothing on the insert.

[tkc324]

Good points everyone. Can you scartch a ceramic bezel? if yes, can that be polished? or is that bezel doomed for complete replacement.

[cmr]

Originally Posted by tkc324

Good points everyone. Can you scartch a ceramic bezel? if yes, can that be polished? or is that bezel doomed for complete replacement.

yes, it's hard but it can be scratched.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by tkc324

Good points everyone. Can you scartch a ceramic bezel? if yes, can that be polished? or is that bezel doomed for complete replacement.

Yes, you can scratch it. No, you can't polish it back to it's original finish. It has to be heated at an extremely high temp to get that finish.

[cmr]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

Yes, you can scratch it. No, you can't polish it back to it's original finish. It has to be heated at an extremely high temp to get that finish.

according to the rolex rep that delivered mine to me he said they are polished with the same procedure as diamonds.

[Megalobyte]

Here's a question, has anybody managed to scratch their ceramic bezel?

On the mohs scale of hardnesss diamond is 10, Corundum (ruby, sapphire) is 9, common steel I think is around 5, glass/quartz is 7, I wonder if ceramic is as hard as sapphire?

[cmr]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Here's a question, has anybody managed to scratch their ceramic bezel?

On the mohs scale of hardnesss diamond is 10, Corundum (ruby, sapphire) is 9, common steel I think is around 5, glass/quartz is 7, I wonder if ceramic is as hard as sapphire?

i have seen a picture posted here once in the past of a scratched insert......... might try a search and see if it comes up. i haven't seen the post for a long time.

[chris_1001]

I worked for Kyocera Industrial Ceramics in Washington state years back... There are several variety's of ceramics, and yes, VERY hard, and can be difficult to chip. Yes, it is possible with the right impact on the right surface. And hitting ceramic with ceramic will more often than not chip it.

You can polish ceramics with diamond lapping paste.

[ingoodtime]

Originally Posted by Art161

Ceramic is brittle. Diamonds are brittle. The odds are that when either takes a hit, it will survive. But if either takes a hit in just the wrong spot, it is history, unlike aluminum.

A good enough hit, probablyless than what it will take to breal ceramic will do some nice damage to your aluminum...just saying.

[Danand]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Here's a question, has anybody managed to scratch their ceramic bezel?

On the mohs scale of hardnesss diamond is 10, Corundum (ruby, sapphire) is 9, common steel I think is around 5, glass/quartz is 7, I wonder if ceramic is as hard as sapphire?

I have one very fine scratch on mine right beside the 40. It is so slight a lot of people would require loupes to see it. It happened when I bashed my wrist against a metal edged door frame (it was a narrow door on an awkward angle and I was going quickly).

[Danand]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

interesting perspective, thanks.

what about the new daytona's exposed ceramic edge, then?

I wondered about that too. Since I haven't seen one in person I can only guess it is well rounded (edge) and possibly thicker since it doesn't have a rotating base. I would think it would be more comparable to a movado, and I guess Rolex must assume Daytona's are worn in a less active way than a sub or gmt.

[threemonkeys]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Oh really now...

WTH. Don't make me stop this car!

[tkc324]

Originally Posted by chris_1001

I worked for Kyocera Industrial Ceramics in Washington state years back... There are several variety's of ceramics, and yes, VERY hard, and can be difficult to chip. Yes, it is possible with the right impact on the right surface. And hitting ceramic with ceramic will more often than not chip it.

You can polish ceramics with diamond lapping paste.

Interesting... anyone try to polish their ceramic bezel with this???

[ArcticMoose]

Brittle my donkey!

I have dragged my bezel across a rock wall when an unexpected surge sent me 30 meters through a tunnel during a cave dive. It has been bashed against door handles, fallen on a tile floor and hit all sorts of objects mountain biking.

Until there is some photo evidence of all these shattered bezels I call bull.

[Dan2010]

I beat the crap out of mine and it looks brand new. No complaints here.

[raskal83]

Originally Posted by ArcticMoose

Brittle my donkey!

I have dragged my bezel across a rock wall when an unexpected surge sent me 30 meters through a tunnel during a cave dive. It has been bashed against door handles, fallen on a tile floor and hit all sorts of objects mountain biking.

Until there is some photo evidence of all these shattered bezels I call bull.

Off topic, but can those scratches in picture 4 be polished out without losing too much of the case? I have some similar ones.

[chris_1001]

Originally Posted by tkc324

Interesting... anyone try to polish their ceramic bezel with this???

I'm wondering how the bezels are colored... Frankly all the ceramics I dealt with were "natural color"

[dannyt]

Originally Posted by Megalobyte

Here's a question, has anybody managed to scratch their ceramic bezel?

On the mohs scale of hardnesss diamond is 10, Corundum (ruby, sapphire) is 9, common steel I think is around 5, glass/quartz is 7, I wonder if ceramic is as hard as sapphire?

My ceramic has 2-3 very very minor hairline scratches (only visible under intense light & loupe). As such, I'm not bothered by it at all.

[ArcticMoose]

Originally Posted by raskal83

Off topic, but can those scratches in picture 4 be polished out without losing too much of the case? I have some similar ones.

RSC may not do it, but you can definitely have it done, have a look at these results:

http://nickhacko.blogspot.com/2009/0...n-project.html

http://nickhacko.blogspot.com/2009/0...polishing.html

[WyoWatch]

Originally Posted by ArcticMoose

RSC may not do it, but you can definitely have it done, have a look at these results:

http://nickhacko.blogspot.com/2009/0...n-project.html

http://nickhacko.blogspot.com/2009/0...polishing.html

Yep, they actually add a metal (type?) compound to the deep scratches, dings, and dents then refinish the surface. You'd never know the damage was there and you don't have to remove too much of the original metal trying to get it out. I was amazed when a watchmaker first told me about this.

[2th Dr]

I once purposely scratched the crap out of a Rado link I wasn't using, using a diamond bur (which by the way was very hard to scratch!), and then tried every possible combination of polishing materials I had at my disposal (remember guys, I'm a dentist, and we polish everything from gold to chrome cobalt, to porcelain), and I could not get the original finish back on the link. Not sure if Rolex uses the same "ceramic" as Rado, but Rado uses the same material (they call it ceramica) that the space shuttle tiles are made of.