Tiffany Production

[GreenLantern]

Also, for the record, if a salesperson gets commission, then by default the incentive structure is set up such that they benefit at another's expense. The idea is that their benefit is also the company's benefit.

I see no conflict of interest here.

A salesperson's job is to sell sell sell.

I am not commenting on any specific person here, nor any store, but I do see the flaws in your argument. :)

That said, I do enjoy this discussion, I'd just wish it weren't about a single person specifically.

[1688]

One has to remember that it is not just Tiffany NYC Patek Salon that has clients asking for the sports Patek models...you basically have the whole Tiffany store network with sales asking for them. I would say being in Kelly’s position is not only stressful but also very very difficult. Imagine all the high value clients asking for a 5711 for their son’s graduation in June. How many can be allocated and whom to allocate to is the dilemma. Too many clients and not enough inventory... basic rule of supply/demand. Many many moons ago(I think around 2014) it was not that crazy, I remember walking into the Salon and was shown a white dial 5980 and blue dial 5980. It was the last white dial 5980 with the Tiffany stamp and I was told they didn’t stamp that many white dial versions because it was only released for couple of years. Still regretting that I did not make that purchase...

[song2010]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Also, for the record, if a salesperson gets commission, then by default the incentive structure is set up such that they benefit at another's expense. The idea is that their benefit is also the company's benefit.

I see no conflict of interest here.

A salesperson's job is to sell sell sell.

I am not commenting on any specific person here, nor any store, but I do see the flaws in your argument. :)

That said, I do enjoy this discussion, I'd just wish it weren't about a single person specifically.

Agreed - that’s the way commission works but typically there are territories set especially for limited goods. For example if a lumber company has 100 logs and they distribute 90 for the north and 10 for the south even though demand is 50/50 wouldn’t you say that it’s unfair the north has ability to make their quota while the south doesn’t? Customer in the north obviously has higher chances than a customer in the south. So it does matter even to customers.

And to be fair to Kelly maybe this isn’t as much as an issue w her but the way policies work. If you give a kid a candy bar he’s going to eat it all if you only give him half then he can only consume half. I think the broader discussion isn’t about Tiffany or Kelly rather the watch industry needs to improve their business standards and customer relationship efforts. We won’t always be in a boom cycle. Thanks for being constructive!

[song2010]

Originally Posted by 1688

One has to remember that it is not just Tiffany NYC Patek Salon that has clients asking for the sports Patek models...you basically have the whole Tiffany store network with sales asking for them. I would say being in Kelly’s position is not only stressful but also very very difficult. Imagine all the high value clients asking for a 5711 for their son’s graduation in June. How many can be allocated and whom to allocate to is the dilemma. Too many clients and not enough inventory... basic rule of supply/demand. Many many moons ago(I think around 2014) it was not that crazy, I remember walking into the Salon and was shown a white dial 5980 and blue dial 5980. It was the last white dial 5980 with the Tiffany stamp and I was told they didn’t stamp that many white dial versions because it was only released for couple of years. Still regretting that I did not make that purchase...

Yep, not saying she doesn't have a really tough job - she can't possibly satisfy even 1% of her potential clients, which has to be very annoying as a sales person. It's just tough though when someone who is a customer at a different Tiffany store is told to drop their local rep and only buy from nyc in order to get a hot model that is in my opinion borderline unethical. Store reps should not be stealing clients from each other especially if the client is in another store's territory.

[GB-man]

If you would have told me 5 years ago numerous presumably well to do men would be arguing about a salesperson at tiffanys on the rolex forum I would have laughed you out of the room.

These are some times.

[song2010]

I’m sure Kelly is having the last laugh I probably just got her a couple new clients ;)

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by GB-man

If you would have told me 5 years ago numerous presumably well to do men would be arguing about a salesperson at tiffanys on the rolex forum I would have laughed you out of the room.

These are some times.

Haha, indeed! Crazy crazy times.

[tchaic]

GB-Man for the win! Best comment.

[song2010]

Originally Posted by tchaic

GB-Man for the win! Best comment.

Seconded!

[d11n]

are all Pateks sold at Tiffany's stamped?

[zahain]

Originally Posted by d11n

are all Pateks sold at Tiffany's stamped?

No not all of them. I think some grand comps dont have it but i dont have enough knowledge to know which references have it or dont, just know not all do. Tiffany's is a Patek retailer like all the other normal ones. Nothing is different other than that they are allowed to have their watches stamped with their brand name

[tchaic]

I’m told through PC all can be stamped. Anything over PC not stamped. As with all things Patek there are exceptions.

[Aquaman]

Originally Posted by d11n

are all Pateks sold at Tiffany's stamped?

I know the 5522 wasn't stamped from tifanny, but paperwork was

[tchaic]

Correct on 5522. Even really well connected collectors that begged couldn't get that one done.

[Aquaman]

Originally Posted by tchaic

Correct on 5522. Even really well connected collectors that begged couldn't get that one done.

i know im correct thats why i said it, if i doubt myself i wont comment

[tchaic]

Originally Posted by Aquaman

i know im correct thats why i said it, if i doubt myself i wont comment

Fair point. I guess I was seconding your opinion so others would know two anonymous people on the interweb shared this opinion. Which should give them at least a 1% confidence factor.

[HauteHorlogerie]

Originally Posted by Speedmasterjon

Kelly does NOT control distribution. She attempts to place the pieces in the hands of collectors who actually want to collect the watches, and aren’t emotionally invested now that the market is hot. You sound like every other butt hurt collector out there who wants wants wants now that there is a premium to be had, yet never pulled the trigger when the shit was sitting in the case.

Look, I’m all for having a constructive argument, but your perspective couldn’t be farther from the truth. Plus most of the real collectors aren’t on Instagram and twitter so you’d really have no idea how many anonymous collections are out there. What you see on Instagram is the same regurgitated horseshit.

Get to know her, see what she’s all about, and I can assure you that your tone will change.

-some guy who kinda knows what he’s talking about.

amen,

what's up Jon? haha

[Juan Luis]

I had a rude (some years back) encounter at Tiffany NYC, with the elevator operators when I asked to let me out on the Mezzanine floor where Patek was, IIRC. The operator lady thought I was kidding and jumped the floor and I had to ask again. When I took the elevator again back down, a gentleman operator this time, told me in front of everyone "let me guess, you'll come back later".... laughing! I didn't say a word that I actually purchased a watch there.

[Codik]

Classy joint...

[dardeca]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but the last thing I would want is the watch to be opened up by a company not named Patek just to add a name on the dial. I've always been of the opinion that the watch should only be opened up when it's necessary...and adding a Tiffany stamp to the dial just doesn't seem "necessary" to me. I think the dial looks cleaner without the added stamp...and again, my OCD wouldn't want Tiffany opening up a brand new Patek that is functioning just fine.

Ok, flame away guys. Just my $0.02.

[Mr. Miami]

I am still new to Patek and really like the Aquanaut, in fact saving for one now and considering go grey, but I never understood why having Tiffany on the dial is so special.

[PatekSF]

Originally Posted by Mr. Miami

I am still new to Patek and really like the Aquanaut, in fact saving for one now and considering go grey, but I never understood why having Tiffany on the dial is so special.

It's a rarity thing: Patek doesn't produce a lot of 5167s and even fewer are co-branded with Tiffany.

[Mr. Miami]

Originally Posted by PatekSF

It's a rarity thing: Patek doesn't produce a lot of 5167s and even fewer are co-branded with Tiffany.

I see. Considering that they are so rare, I be more than happy to get my hands on the regular 5167a.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by dardeca

I guess I'm in the minority here, but the last thing I would want is the watch to be opened up by a company not named Patek just to add a name on the dial. I've always been of the opinion that the watch should only be opened up when it's necessary...and adding a Tiffany stamp to the dial just doesn't seem "necessary" to me. I think the dial looks cleaner without the added stamp...and again, my OCD wouldn't want Tiffany opening up a brand new Patek that is functioning just fine.

Ok, flame away guys. Just my $0.02.

HSWA does the printing, not Tiffany.

[dardeca]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

The question should actually be: How many Pateks are allocated to Tiffany NYC as an AD?

Patek produces ZERO Nautiluses and Aquanauts with the Tiffany stamp. :) The stamp is added after the fact, before they go into Tiffany's invenory.

The answer to that question is no different from asking how many Pateks does any AD get. The fundamental difference is that all non-Grand Complications (except some of the "simpler" perps) get stamped before going into Tiffany NYC's inventory.

All Tiffany Pateks sold by the other authorized Tiffany boutiques (SF, Hawaii, Beverly Hills) come from Tiffany NYC.

Originally Posted by RussW

HSWA does the printing, not Tiffany.

Interesting...I'll defer to others more knowledgeable as I don't assume to be a Patek expert. I was going off the above as to who prints the Tiffany name...and inferring that it was done by Tiffany.

[YYR]

Before I start I want to be clear, I don’t know Kelly and I’m sure she’s a very nice person and it’s commendable that she brought many collectors to take notice of patek over the years.
That said let’s do some assumption making

A. Due to the limited amount of sport models that patek produces they allocate them based on sales of other watches
So for arguments sake let’s assume every 1 million in sales if watched, Patek allocates you 10 sport models.

B. Tiffany in New York City controls which locations get which watches (I think this has been pretty well established, both here on the forums and I have first hand knowledge of this)

C. Tiffany in New York has very little incentive for a non hot model that’s sitting in the display case in Atlanta to sell at All.

D. Tiffany in New York is Very strict about any discounting on any models even at their other locations (again I know this first hand)

E. I am assuming that the no discounting rule is done, in order for there to be a perceived value in having a Tiffany stamped dial driving up sales.

C. Out of the 1 million dollars in sales of non allocated watches let’s assume that
40% is sold in New York City and the remaining 3 Tiffany stores each sell 20%.

D. Logic would dictate that each store should be be get the % of allocated models based on their sales, so NY gets 4 allocated pieces and the others each get 2. This is the only way that it is fair because sales people work on commissions and sometimes they need the exciting pieces to make a sale of the lesser exciting pieces

E. Salespeople make a commission and even if they don’t, their salary is based on their overall performance

F. The owner of a store should be able to decide if he wants to give a hot watch to one of his personal customers as opposed to the salespersons customer, even though this is not fair to the salesperson, still the boss can decide because he’s the one that takes all the risk of having his business and if he feels making one customer happy over another is better for himself or for his business then he should be the one to decide because he takes all the risk.

After taking all my assumptions into account (and I may be wrong and some of all of them) I think the issue with Tiffany is this.

Since allocation at the store level is controlled by New York, They are keeping most of the allocated models to be sold in New York (more then their 40%). What’s wrong about this is that they wore only allocated these additional models in the first place because of a salespersons hard work at another location. This is self serving because since in NY they work on commission and by keeping the allocated models they have much more leverage to sell the hard to sell models it ends up benefiting them and filling up their pockets, when the only reason they have those models in the first place is because of a hard working salesperson in at another Tiffany.

Next issue.
If For arguments sake Tiffany would be owned by the people that manage the patek salon in New York Then it would be their choice whether to discount or not too discount on very slow moving models because they would be the ones that have their money on the line and at that point they would be free to choose whether they want to sell the watch today at a discount or wait 1yr, 2yr, in some cases 10yrs to sell the watch. (Anyone whose been to Tiffany has seen those watches that that won’t sell because they are not being discounted)
That said, the fact that the people at Tiffany in New York are just employees, and they still won’t allow any discounts at all at any location is again self serving. This is Because the no discount rule helps the perceived value of Tiffany stamped dials driving up sales and bringing them traffic, but on the flip side the sales people in New York could not care less if there is a 100k patek sitting in a salon at another location that will probably take 5 years to sell without a discount, the issue with that is they are not the ones that risked their hard earned money to have that 100k patek sitting in the showcase waiting to be sold. so they would rather it sit and not get sold in order for it to help with the perception that Tiffany stamped dials are special thus driving up sales and bringing more profit to their pockets.

You may ask, if the no discounting policy is driving up perceived value thus bringing more sales why is that not a good decision for the salespeople in NY to make?
I’ll answer, that bringing up the perceived value of a hard to sell piece will only help sales in NY, because think about it, if the market rate for a 90k patek is discounted at -25% why would you buy it at Tiffany for full price? (granted there are some collectors that would, but most would not)
The only way that you will buy 90k Tiffany Patek at full price is in NY thus gaining leverage to get a Tiffany stamped nauti/fillintheblank.

That said it is very difficult to sell a 90k patek anywhere outside NY. Logic would say for Tiffany’s other then NY that they discount, like many stores would. The issue with that would then be how can NY sell the 90k patek for full price when they are being sold at other Tiffany locations for -25% , that’s why NY has a rule of no discounting anywhere, in order to drive sales to their store, not taking into account that their actions are slowing sales at other locations, not only that but when the other locations do make a sale on the 90k watch they don’t even get the reward of the allocated piece. Do they care? No because they don’t own Tiffany and they have no issues with watches at other locations not selling, as long as their pockets get filled.

Long story short, the people with the control are not the ones taking the risk and thus have no issues using every means possible as leverage to fill their pockets, even at the expense to their company and their fellow employees

It’s the same difference between government an private industry, in government the people with the power are not the ones taking the risk so they have no issues with making decisions that are self serving and doing what benefits them. In private industry the ones making the decisions are the ones taking the risk and that’s why they make their decisions based on calculations and logic and thats why they reap the benefits if they are successful and they risk everything if they fail

Now if what another writer wrote is true, that kelly has worked very hard to promote patek and Tiffany’s then she shall definitely be acknowledged and if that means that they give her more allocated models to her specifically (on top of their usual) as a token for her hard work, then good for her! And she should definitely be able to enjoy that benefit!

[YYR]

Originally Posted by Speedmasterjon

Kelly does NOT control distribution. She attempts to place the pieces in the hands of collectors who actually want to collect the watches, and aren’t emotionally invested now that the market is hot. You sound like every other butt hurt collector out there who wants wants wants now that there is a premium to be had, yet never pulled the trigger when the shit was sitting in the case.

Look, I’m all for having a constructive argument, but your perspective couldn’t be farther from the truth. Plus most of the real collectors aren’t on Instagram and twitter so you’d really have no idea how many anonymous collections are out there. What you see on Instagram is the same regurgitated horseshit.

Get to know her, see what she’s all about, and I can assure you that your tone will change.
-some guy who kinda knows what he’s talking about.

Interesting, just wondering if this is speculation or fact

-some guy who doesn’t know what he’s talking about

[YYR]

Originally Posted by bzabodyn

Wrong. Just because one person has earned notoriety through social media and has become synonymous with the brand doesn’t equal “she controls production” - Kelly has out worked everyone in the industry wayyyy before the Patek madness of late and now when people can’t get a Nautilus or Aquanaut (not to mention, this isn’t exactly a Tiffany-only problem) its all of a sudden her fault and she’s the enemy. What bullshit. Patek and Tiffany should be putting her on a pedestal for what she’s attributed to the brands and instead she has to defend herself because of bitter entitled collectors.

And yes, I’m a loyal Patek and Tiffany customer and I’m lucky to be able to call Kelly a friend.

BZ

Interesting

[BigAppleBill]

Some interesting info here, but it’s all for naught because now that LVMH is taking over control of Tiffany, I think they will likely dissolve the Tiffany/Patek partnership. LVMH owns several other luxury watch brands that it can promote within Tiffany as well as the option of reinvigorating the mostly overlooked Tiffany brand of watches. Imagine a newly designed line of Tiffany luxury watches with Zenith movements.

One thing is for sure, if the Tiffany/Patek partnership ends, Tiffany stamped Patek models will become rarer and are sure to command even higher prices.

[DoraTheExplorerII]

Originally Posted by BigAppleBill

Some interesting info here, but it’s all for naught because now that LVMH is taking over control of Tiffany, I think they will likely dissolve the Tiffany/Patek partnership. LVMH owns several other luxury watch brands that it can promote within Tiffany as well as the option of reinvigorating the mostly overlooked Tiffany brand of watches. Imagine a newly designed line of Tiffany luxury watches with Zenith movements.

One thing is for sure, if the Tiffany/Patek partnership ends, Tiffany stamped Patek models will become rarer and are sure to command even higher prices.

That wouldn't be very smart of them. Tiffany stamped Hublot doesn't have the same ring to it at all.