AP AD requesting to cancel my order after deposit and 13 month wait

[shaunylw]

I would contact AP.


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[Fleetlord]

Forgive me if I missed something, but after you place the deposit...you continued to check in with them...but didn't buy any more watches from them?

So a possible situation is that, as you said, that reference has jumped in desirability very quickly...so it caught the attention of a VIP that is a perpetual buyer. They got the watch and you got your deposit back.

There are only so many of these available and a VIP purchase history will trump a deposit every time.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Vipes

Is this an AP boutique? If not then I think the store may be losing AP and can’t fulfill your order. It’s disappointing and upsetting but I would move on and not focus any negative energy on posting bad reviews, etc. Just my humble opinion.

O/P what was the answer here please?

AD or AP owned Boutique??

[Kittayos]

I encountered a situation where 26331st blue dial is confirmed under my brother’s name since last September but then early this year in Feb the AP policy had changed stating that a new customer is not allowed to have a hot reference as their first piece, so the SA at the AP House kindly asked my brother to buy one offshore first in order to get an approval. We picked up the 44mm green ceramic. This rule applies to all new customers according to them. 3 months later. we got 26331st delivered and after that, a load more is on the way.

Another solution. If you know any VIP client or high spender there personally where you can get referred to your boutique, that definitely helps IMO. Ask them to make a call and help you find out. Even if you they refuse to honor 26331st, you still get something nice as a replacement for sure.

Good luck.

[Bbp]

Sorry to hear your unfortunate story… i would be very frustrated too in your situation. Just to share during 2019 i wanted a blue 26331st from my AD but was told they have never received any jumbo or 41mm blue dial RO as they are only available from the boutique.

[dauster]

long story short: sucks for OP. I would reach out to AP corporate and complain, maybe they will try and help out. I would not expect anything from legal action or from this AD seems like you are not on their radar and don't care for your business OP>

[Dr.Stu]

Originally Posted by Mbbgysam

Is it worth sending an email to AP? I've heard of success stories going this route. Don't make it a complaint per se, just keep it succinct and factual and wrap it up with a clear ask. I'd be thinking something along the lines of...

-Quickly establish passion for AP and the watch
-Explain the situation, keeping it purely factual. Attach a copy of the deposit receipt if you have it, and communications with the AD to back up your story
-Double down on why you still want the watch and seek guidance on how to shift your deposit to an AP boutique

Even if your AD did not lose their account with AP it is clear that you have no future with this AD (with ANY watch). I think that you should go in, get your money back, and calmly tell them that. (p.s. They won't care.)

I think the advice above is your best option as at least it will confirm your real interest in the brand/that model with AP and, perhaps, you can get on a mythical list at the Boutique (for that reference or another). But, for all the reasons already mentioned above, I think it is not likely that you will get that reference at MSRP.

[stanleyleecm]

Originally Posted by GW44

O/P what was the answer here please?

AD or AP owned Boutique??

Originally Posted by blada4life

thats what bothers me most. there was zero effort. they sell other brands and when i mentioned i would consider another special piece for my collection, even from another brand, the reaction was akin to "i literally cant sell you anything" (as if i am not VIP enough and they cant believe they let me get that far in the first place). kind of ridiculous in my opinion. The rep literally admitted that they would keep my money had the watch come in and i said no, yet now they cant fulfill anything for me (presumably due to the demand/value on the current market).

From the OP's post, it is AD.

[SLWoodster]

I'm really sorry man. This would piss me off so bad.

Family had my name down for a 15202 2 years ago at NY boutique. Sales rep left. Pretty much name gone.

Put my name down again this year for a chrono as well. Went in with my family that has sales history. SA told me if a blue dial is available for me, he cannot sell it to me. Only my family member can come pick it up. LOL.

I've also been at an AD that told me a 15400 customer paid in full for a blue dial in like 2017. Finally in 2020, asked for his money back.

It's a shitty situation but others are in shittier situations as well.

Originally Posted by blada4life

I put down a deposit on a blue dial 26331ST when they first reopened after covid. My brother did the same, but on the 27mm RO.

My order needed manager approval. After some back and forth they agreed to let me order the blue dial. I put a deposit down with my CC and was told to expect it somewhere in the 6-12 month range depending on the delivery schedule. At the time the chrono wasnt as popular so the premium wasn't nearly the same and the rep told me i was not that far down their list.

I was not pushy and followed up about once a month knowing I had to wait about 8 months. At the 8 month mark, my brother got the call for his 37mm and i thought i was good to go.

I spoke to my rep about 2 weeks ago and she made it seem like i was getting mine soon. All of a sudden, i got a call yesterday telling me they needed to cancel my order and refund my deposit, with some sh!tty explanation that doesnt make sense. i have also been given the run around to speak to the manager.

I am not sure what my options are here. The watch has significantly gained a premium over the past year. Has anyone been in this situation before? Any advice? Here is what i am thinking my possible options are, and none are very pretty, i just want the watch to own:

1. walk away and leave a bad review
2. threaten legal action to enforce agreement, or difference in current market price v. selling price
3. continue to push for the watch or something different (they sales rep for now refused this option)
4. file a complaint with AP (not sure if this would even make a difference).

keep in mind i have waited for over a year (about 13-14 months) with the promise of being able to buy the watch. there is literally no explanation other than they want to cancel the order. nothing was offered and i am getting the run around regarding speaking to the manager etc. its almost as if they got to my name finally and with the current market value, realized they didnt want to sell it to me. very bizarre, and after spending at most 1-2 minutes each time with me as to the ETA when i have inquired, the rep spent over 30 min pressuring me to accept cancellation, which i have for now refused.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by SLWoodster

I'm really sorry man. This would piss me off so bad.

Family had my name down for a 15202 2 years ago at NY boutique. Sales rep left. Pretty much name gone.

Put my name down again this year for a chrono as well. Went in with my family that has sales history. SA told me if a blue dial is available for me, he cannot sell it to me. Only my family member can come pick it up. LOL.

I've also been at an AD that told me a 15400 customer paid in full for a blue dial in like 2017. Finally in 2020, asked for his money back.

It's a shitty situation but others are in shittier situations as well.

and the question remains - how long can you piss off customers until it hurts the business in the long run? Or is demand soo sky high and they produce so few watches that they could produce twice as many and still sell them to existing customers easily? I think the latter is true.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by stanleyleecm

From the OP's post, it is AD.

[chiscott_29]

I am refusing to read all the replies because I know what they are. You’re going to get all sorts of replies to this ranging from “move on/man up” to “oh my God AP would NEVER do this” to “you must not be VIP” to “you’re a flipper”.

Honestly, there is nothing you can do. Life isn’t fair. AP (whether it be an AD or a Boutique) doesn’t want to sell you this watch. Maybe they can’t fulfill it, or maybe there is somebody more important to please. That’s all there is to it. Everything else is conjecture.

P.S.: This happened to me and I was pissed. Luckily I had other options to explore, but as with anything there are pros/cons.


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[blada4life]

Update, and i will try to answer other questions here:

1. yes it is an AD
2. before speaking to the manager i reached out to AP to get their guidance:
- i got some interesting information. Since it is an AD they have no control over anything. Had it been a boutique, more specifically the corporate one and not a partnership, they would have a lot of say in what happened next.
- the rep at AP was very nice and professional and tried to help, asked me to try and deal with the manager to my satisfaction BUT if we cant work anything out and they force a refund only, to reach out back to him and he would put me in touch with a corp boutique and have me "pitch my case" to them. It was definitely appreciated knowing i can go to them for help.
3. i spoke to the manager. the reps wouldnt even give me the name of the manager... sounds like they are all running these games with customers. I had a really productive, honest and frank convo with the manager and she gave me more insight into how i was approved in the first place, which i appreciated. She also made it clear the reps have been lying to me and never speaking to her about my status or place in line. She offered to help obtain something else for me in the next few months if she can, but no guarantee what it will be, although it would be a more special watch (i.e. ranging from sub to AP). If she is unable to get anything for me due to allocation and small deliveries, she will reach out to me and we will take it further. I explained to her my passion for watches and my reasons for this watch and what it meant to us for 2020/2021. she seemed receptive, but still no guarantee.

At this point, i will not reach back out to AP and will allow the AD to try and make it right. i am glad i spoke to the manager because the reps were clearly lying and trying to push me out not to get in trouble. hope this situation can help others. I will try to update this post if i hear back in the next 1-2 months from the AD, or sooner.

oh and interesting tidbit, the AD did have a recent meeting with AP and sounds like there is nothing about them losing their status at this time.... they were submitting their orders for next year. Moral of the story... do what you can to be customer of corporate AP location (not the partnership boutques by westime etc), but AP owned ones.... AP corporate apparently has full control over how they operate their lists etc and it sounded like he wouldve made sure i got my watch.

[RealMadrid1988]

Originally Posted by GS93108

It sounds like you've been blacklisted. The AD can choose who to do business with and if you've 'flipped' a watch, regardless of brand, then you are done for life. e.g. if you've flipped a Rolex then as far as the AD is concerned that also affects your ability to buy an AP.

Unfortunately your willingness for 'another special piece' from a different brand is a red flag in and of itself, albeit after the fact in this case.

Don't forget, you may not have flipped a watch from this specific AD, but from another AD in their group, and thus have fallen foul of their shared knowledge.

Go and find another unrelated AD and start over and hope that your history doesn't follow you.

No accusations by me, just laying it out there, only you know.

While I think legal action by the OP may be taking it a bit too far, where on earth did this come from? There’s literally no indication (that I can see) that OP has been flipping watches. What a bizarre comment.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by RealMadrid1988

While I think legal action by the OP may be taking it a bit too far, where on earth did this come from? There’s literally no indication (that I can see) that OP has been flipping watches. What a bizarre comment.

because AP = Gary - AP can do no wrong in his eyes :)

[RealMadrid1988]

Originally Posted by dauster

and the question remains - how long can you piss off customers until it hurts the business in the long run? Or is demand soo sky high and they produce so few watches that they could produce twice as many and still sell them to existing customers easily? I think the latter is true.

I think we humans have a bias towards over-emphasizing the “here and now” despite past experiences that may diverge sharply from the present. AP watches — even the simplest steel Royal Oaks — have not always been unobtainium. It may well be the case that these watches do not become any easier to source in the future, but it’s no given. Equally plausible — if not necessarily equally likely — is that these watches could once again become available in stores in the face of an economic downturn or more general movement away from interest in mechanical watches. If that reversion to availability occurs, I can see brands and ADs alike ruing their current treatment of customers.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by RealMadrid1988

I think we humans have a bias towards over-emphasizing the “here and now” despite past experiences that may diverge sharply from the present. AP watches — even the simplest steel Royal Oaks — have not always been unobtainium. It may well be the case that these watches do not become any easier to source in the future, but it’s no given. Equally plausible — if not necessarily equally likely — is that these watches could once again become available in stores in the face of an economic downturn or more general movement away from interest in mechanical watches. If that reversion to availability occurs, I can see brands and ADs alike ruing their current treatment of customers.

excellent point - I do hope the watch world comes back to 2015 levels at least.

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by dauster

excellent point - I do hope the watch world comes back to 2015 levels at least.

I think most people looking to buy a watch for themselves to wear....would just be happy to be able to buy the watch directly from an AD or Boutique at MSRP and for some...have it not lose more then 15% to 20% of its value over time.

That would be a perfect happy medium in my mind.

If things do keep being crazy...it would at least be nice to be able to buy entry level models at MSRP. There are a lot of us out there that can easily drop $10K to $30K on a watch, but can't justify $50K or $100K. Unfortunately, the hardest to get models are the ones in this lower range and you have to buy watches in the higher range to get the lower ones. It is ass backwards.

[GS93108]

Originally Posted by RealMadrid1988

While I think legal action by the OP may be taking it a bit too far, where on earth did this come from? There’s literally no indication (that I can see) that OP has been flipping watches. What a bizarre comment.

I didn't say he'd been flipping watches, I said that if the AD thought that he'd been flipping watches then he may be black listed. The OP's comment was that they couldn't sell him anything at all, i.e. it was nothing to do with the specific watch being unavailable or indeed anything to do with AP. I specifically made no accusations, rather I gave an opinion on why the AD may not sell him ANYTHING. As I said, garbage in, garbage out.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

I think most people looking to buy a watch for themselves to wear....would just be happy to be able to buy the watch directly from an AD or Boutique at MSRP and for some...have it not lose more then 15% to 20% of its value over time.

That would be a perfect happy medium in my mind.

If things do keep being crazy...it would at least be nice to be able to buy entry level models at MSRP. There are a lot of us out there that can easily drop $10K to $30K on a watch, but can't justify $50K or $100K. Unfortunately, the hardest to get models are the ones in this lower range and you have to buy watches in the higher range to get the lower ones. It is ass backwards.

I honestly don't know if most people buy to wear or to flip. an inherent problem is that people would like to buy to keep but are forced to buy stuff they don't like in order to move up in the purchase history hierarchy. vicious cycle.

[GS93108]

Originally Posted by dauster

because AP = Gary - AP can do no wrong in his eyes :)

Far from it.

I think that some AP AD's stink, and that's from personal experience. But, I do not believe that AP corporate behaves as such.

But I'm getting quite tired of the watch world and this place especially now. Far too little watch appreciation going on.

[GS93108]

Originally Posted by dauster

I honestly don't know if most people buy to wear or to flip. an inherent problem is that people would like to buy to keep but are forced to buy stuff they don't like in order to move up in the purchase history hierarchy. vicious cycle.

Frankly 'flipping' is each person's own decision, it's not a crime. Some customers have agreements in place that they won't sell a watch within a certain time frame, others have no such agreements. Each to their own.

If people want to flip watches, to move on up, then so be it, but those same people can't complain if they then can't buy a second or third piece.

I hate the investment aspect of watches but it's the world we live in. As far as I can see there is no cure/solution, other than a huge bubble bursting extinction event, and there's no sign of that.

[GS93108]

p.s.

On the flipping topic, if Rolex offered me anything, I'd buy it and flip it, as I care nothing about my relationship with them. Also, I've been waiting for an RM for two years in the UK, and have lost interest now. If they offer me one then I'll take it and sell it the same day, and the reason for that is that they don't love me and thus I don't love them. But, I wouldn't whine about not being able to get any more. If that's how people feel about AP then I get it.

[Token74]

If you’re after a special piece OP, how about a Code 11:59, stunning watches in person.


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[GW44]

Originally Posted by dauster

excellent point - I do hope the watch world comes back to 2015 levels at least.

Not ever going to happen in my view. If anything, things will get worse before better (in terms of watch availability) and there won’t be any reverse in the market at all.

Fine to hope for it but don’t expend any more than that in my opinion.

[GW44]

Originally Posted by stanleyleecm

From the OP's post, it is AD.

My apologies for missing that Stanley

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by RealMadrid1988

If that reversion to availability occurs, I can see brands and ADs alike ruing their current treatment of customers.

Lying SAs aside, I think one can make the contrary point: maybe some brands are emphasizing existing relationships as customers who were regular buyers before the current hype are most likely to keep buying watches once the inevitable downturn comes?

[macrowatch]

Nicely done OP, about as well as to be expected in the current environment. In the mean time, wouldn't hurt to build bridges to NYC boutique to hedge your bets.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Forgive me if I missed something, but after you place the deposit...you continued to check in with them...but didn't buy any more watches from them?

So a possible situation is that, as you said, that reference has jumped in desirability very quickly...so it caught the attention of a VIP that is a perpetual buyer. They got the watch and you got your deposit back.

There are only so many of these available and a VIP purchase history will trump a deposit every time.

Oh, good one and a new twist. After you get on the list and place your deposit you're supposed to improve your credit score (with AP) buy making other purchases. I like it.
No resting on your laurels.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

I think most people looking to buy a watch for themselves to wear....would just be happy to be able to buy the watch directly from an AD or Boutique at MSRP and for some...have it not lose more then 15% to 20% of its value over time.

That would be a perfect happy medium in my mind.

If things do keep being crazy...it would at least be nice to be able to buy entry level models at MSRP. There are a lot of us out there that can easily drop $10K to $30K on a watch, but can't justify $50K or $100K. Unfortunately, the hardest to get models are the ones in this lower range and you have to buy watches in the higher range to get the lower ones. It is ass backwards.

No, most people who were interested enough in watches to the point where they had more than 2 were never comfortable with the idea of losing 20% of value over time. That was a point of extreme angst for collectors and many were cautious in their purchases as a consequence. It has only been since there was no downside to purchasing at MSRP that people were throwing their credit cards down and begging to be added to lists.
People are still more focused on the financial side than the enjoyment side of owning watches which is why you can still easily get an Omega or Grand Seiko but not a Rolex or Patek. It's not about the watch, it's about the money.