Journe or lange

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Parapraxis

Where can you get one? I don't see any on c24

You contact KV and commission one. It use to be fairly easy but of course takes time. Maybe in this market that has changed. A few guys here have done it over the years.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by llngoc

RR is impossible. I emailed them and acted one correspondence and they asked which watch I am interested in then never replied my followups anymore.

For KV, I don’t plan to get it used and would rather wait so I can custom design the watch. I believe that is part of the experience to obtain something which is uniquely mine. But I think they do exist in secondary market, a friend bought two used. One last year and an GMT just last month. Just not on C24, but I never asked how he got his as I was not planning to get used. It does not seem like C24 has a lot of interesting independent watches anyway, a search for Journe has 120 results but most are Elegante and CB. There is no Resonance nor CO. Really odd, I have always seen a few CO and Resonance listed there.

If you want a preowned Journe you basically need to contact watchbox. They have them.

[_speedmaster_]

1815 chrono by a mile. It's the better finished watch. More important watch from a horology standpoint. Adds a very useful complication.

[mchen42]

See the photos, I tried the 1815 chronograph at lange boutique. Good looking but I chose Journe.







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[Parapraxis]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You contact KV and commission one. It use to be fairly easy but of course takes time. Maybe in this market that has changed. A few guys here have done it over the years.

Roughly how much do they cost and how long do they take? And anyone can commission one or they have 'approve' your request?

I'm not familiar with the process with these micro independents

[Billfav]

Originally Posted by ts3

Manual wound PM chronos such as the 1815 don't fit my life style. When I am wearing a PM dress watch I don't need any chrono function and when I could use the chrono function I need to wear a tool watch that can take a beating. Not sure I will ever get a manual wound PM chrono for its horological merits alone w/o getting much wear out of it.

From a design perspective I prefer the RG white dial CS over the 1815 chrono as well. In fact this is exactly the Journe I'd pick if I were to get on the list today. Simple man likes basic kit. My only concern is the 40mm size. The 39mm of the CB is perfect for this design. The bezel looks wide on the 40mm CS and a narrow on the out-of-production 38mm variant.

My thoughts exactly. I was lucky to snag the out of production 38mm variant new, however mine is in rose gold, so the FPJ CS for me.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Parapraxis

Roughly how much do they cost and how long do they take? And anyone can commission one or they have 'approve' your request?

I'm not familiar with the process with these micro independents

When I inquired about 3 months ago, it is about $70000 for a base model with steel or titanium. But the cost can vary a lot depending on how you are going to customize it. KV’s dial work is amazing and you can definitely get into the sky is the limit situation. And it was about two years and the last couple of months will be the most “intense” period as it is when you finalize your dial and/or case design. Not sure what it is like now but I can imagine that it will be longer as more people are aware of his work.

So the LM101 would be my temporary KV fix.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Billfav

My thoughts exactly. I was lucky to snag the out of production 38mm variant new, however mine is in rose gold, so the FPJ CS for me.

Awww. 38mm is special especially for a CS.


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[mchen42]

Originally Posted by llngoc

When I inquired about 3 months ago, it is about $70000 for a base model with steel or titanium. But the cost can vary a lot depending on how you are going to customize it. KV’s dial work is amazing and you can definitely get into the sky is the limit situation. And it was about two years and the last couple of months will be the most “intense” period as it is when you finalize your dial and/or case design. Not sure what it is like now but I can imagine that it will be longer as more people are aware of his work.

So the LM101 would be my temporary KV fix.

Hi, I am interested in getting one KV. What is the model for $70000? I am particularly interested in the 28E.


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[Parapraxis]

Originally Posted by Billfav

My thoughts exactly. I was lucky to snag the out of production 38mm variant new, however mine is in rose gold, so the FPJ CS for me.

You're a lucky dog for getting a 38mm, that's a great great piece.

You're a brave man pairing it with that strap though lol

[Parapraxis]

Originally Posted by llngoc

When I inquired about 3 months ago, it is about $70000 for a base model with steel or titanium. But the cost can vary a lot depending on how you are going to customize it. KV’s dial work is amazing and you can definitely get into the sky is the limit situation. And it was about two years and the last couple of months will be the most “intense” period as it is when you finalize your dial and/or case design. Not sure what it is like now but I can imagine that it will be longer as more people are aware of his work.

So the LM101 would be my temporary KV fix.

That's intense. I don't think I'm there yet in my collecting journey, but maybe one day.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Parapraxis

That's intense. I don't think I'm there yet in my collecting journey, but maybe one day.

Start early

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Parapraxis

You're a lucky dog for getting a 38mm, that's a great great piece.

You're a brave man pairing it with that strap though lol

I think he is a fan of this color. Look at the fountain pen…

[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by mbalmz

definitely the lange. I prefer lange’s look generally and love the 1815 chrono; but personal taste the idea of possibly the best no-date chronograph on the market being priced the same as a time only fpj just seems bonkers to me.

IMO speaking from deep firsthand experience it’s insane that anyone would compare a hyped simplistic FPJ to a Lange chrono with that landmark movement. I would not pay over retail for an FPJ, these watches were sitting there, even last year. The hype machine worked, Watchbox expertly made FPJ, which says more about Watchbox than FPJ. Now people are chasing and willing to pay over retail, and the boutiques that couldn’t do it on their own for all these years have piggybacked onto Watchbox’s moves to capitalize. The emperor has no clothes.

If you’re influenced by or buying the hype: the FPJ

If you’re buying the watch: the Lange

For the same money for these references it’s a ridiculous comparison to make, and nobody would have made the comparison in years past were it not for that hype. OP it’s not worth it for what you get I’m afraid.

There are too many instances now where people are told the demand for an FPJ piece is x years long, then low and behold the watch shows up in a couple of months. How many people on the lists passed on the watches? How many people were even on those lists?

The FPJ hype does not survive critical thinking.

[Parapraxis]

Originally Posted by lovetherolex

IMO speaking from deep firsthand experience it’s insane that anyone would compare a hyped simplistic FPJ to a Lange chrono with that landmark movement. I would not pay over retail for an FPJ, these watches were sitting there, even last year. The hype machine worked, Watchbox expertly made FPJ, which says more about Watchbox than FPJ. Now people are chasing and willing to pay over retail, and the boutiques that couldn’t do it on their own for all these years have piggybacked onto Watchbox’s moves to capitalize. The emperor has no clothes.

If you’re influenced by or buying the hype: the FPJ

If you’re buying the watch: the Lange

For the same money for these references it’s a ridiculous comparison to make, and nobody would have made the comparison in years past were it not for that hype. OP it’s not worth it for what you get I’m afraid.

There are too many instances now where people are told the demand for an FPJ piece is x years long, then low and behold the watch shows up in a couple of months. How many people on the lists passed on the watches? How many people were even on those lists?

The FPJ hype does not survive critical thinking.

Replace (FP journe) with (Rolex) and that narrative remains just as true. We all know how successful the Rolex market has been for 5 years now, and you really have to kid yourself in to thinking it's going to stop anytime soon.

So yes, there may be artificial factors influencing the market. But that's true for any market. At the end of the day we are collectors. And you collect things, because they are scarce and not easily replaceable. That's what collecting is.

No denying the Lange is the more complex piece, but that isn't the only factor that should be taken in to consideration. Much like hype shouldn't be the only factor.

OP, take all factors in to consideration and make the choice right for you.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by lovetherolex

IMO speaking from deep firsthand experience it’s insane that anyone would compare a hyped simplistic FPJ to a Lange chrono with that landmark movement. I would not pay over retail for an FPJ, these watches were sitting there, even last year. The hype machine worked, Watchbox expertly made FPJ, which says more about Watchbox than FPJ. Now people are chasing and willing to pay over retail, and the boutiques that couldn’t do it on their own for all these years have piggybacked onto Watchbox’s moves to capitalize. The emperor has no clothes.

If you’re influenced by or buying the hype: the FPJ

If you’re buying the watch: the Lange

For the same money for these references it’s a ridiculous comparison to make, and nobody would have made the comparison in years past were it not for that hype. OP it’s not worth it for what you get I’m afraid.

There are too many instances now where people are told the demand for an FPJ piece is x years long, then low and behold the watch shows up in a couple of months. How many people on the lists passed on the watches? How many people were even on those lists?

The FPJ hype does not survive critical thinking.

Please read the CS article from theJourneGuy. The CS looks simple but not as simple as you may think.

With the same logic, the 1815 should beat a Philip Dufour which also has been selling for many times its original price and also impossible to get. But I think we are really comparing apples to oranges here. And buy what we love and wear.

BTW, I am a big Lange fan and think that 1815 is very good value and have one of the best movements out there.


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[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by Parapraxis

Replace (FP journe) with (Rolex) and that narrative remains just as true. We all know how successful the Rolex market has been for 5 years now, and you really have to kid yourself in to thinking it's going to stop anytime soon.

So yes, there may be artificial factors influencing the market. But that's true for any market. At the end of the day we are collectors. And you collect things, because they are scarce and not easily replaceable. That's what collecting is.

No denying the Lange is the more complex piece, but that isn't the only factor that should be taken in to consideration. Much like hype shouldn't be the only factor.

OP, take all factors in to consideration and make the choice right for you.

Rolex wasn’t made by Watchbox. FPJ indisputably was.

The demand is not where you might be led to believe, I’m afraid. Anyone can buy whatever they want, OP asked, I answered, and with high specificity in why. It’s hard to hear, I know, and harder to address that specificity.

But it’s a simple hype equation. Doesn’t bother me one bit if you buy all the watches over retail, but I’m not in your boat.

Rolex ≠ FPJ, not even close. Watchbox had a coordinated, long term program to talk up and hype FPJ watches, and it worked. They couldn’t give these FPJ watches away before Watchbox began their campaign of YouTube videos. And I give them kudos for that, they masterfully took watches that you couldn’t give away and turned it into what you are so keen on defending today. And I’ll tel you another thing, people in the FPJ organization themselves openly call these prices and the people paying them stupid. FPJ for its part is just getting while the getting’s good. They for their own actions don’t even know how they got there but everyone acknowledges what Watchbox did.

You don’t know why you’re chasing it, you just know that you are because “that’s how things are.” That’s what the equivocation above can be boiled down to.

Let’s get real for a second.

No one should say FPJ without saying Watchbox.

If they do that shows at the very least that they weren’t there before Watchbox, or during Watchbox’s time undertaking this task. I was. Were you?

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by lovetherolex

Rolex wasn’t made by Watchbox. FPJ indisputably was.

The demand is not where you might be led to believe, I’m afraid. Anyone can buy whatever they want, OP asked, I answered, and with high specificity in why. It’s hard to hear, I know, and harder to address that specificity.

But it’s a simple hype equation. Doesn’t bother me one bit if you buy all the watches over retail, but I’m not in your boat.

Rolex ≠ FPJ, not even close. Watchbox had a coordinated, long term program to talk up and hype FPJ watches, and it worked. They couldn’t give these FPJ watches away before Watchbox began their campaign of YouTube videos. And I give them kudos for that, they masterfully took watches that you couldn’t give away and turned it into what you are so keen on defending today. And I’ll tel you another thing, people in the FPJ organization themselves openly call these prices and the people paying them stupid. FPJ for its part is just getting while the getting’s good. They for their own actions don’t even know how they got there but everyone acknowledges what Watchbox did.

You don’t know why you’re chasing it, you just know that you are because “that’s how things are.” That’s what the equivocation above can be boiled down to.

Let’s get real for a second.

No one should say FPJ without saying Watchbox.

If they do that shows at the very least that they weren’t there before Watchbox, or during Watchbox’s time undertaking this task. I was. Were you?

I think the FPJ price craze was mostly after one auction at the end of 2019. Watchbox helped but that’s also why they are no longer an AD.

I would refuse to pay over retail for a FPJ too. But at least the Journe boutique would not coerce you to spend on items you do not want in order to get a watch. Most Rolex, AP, PP dealers all now want to you spend $X to get a sub/RO/Nautilus.

But we should all buy what we love and wear and not what people on this forum likes. And most definitely not to buy one as an “investment”.


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[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Please read the CS article from theJourneGuy. The CS looks simple but not as simple as you may think.

With the same logic, the 1815 should beat a Philip Dufour which also has been selling for many times its original price and also impossible to get. But I think we are really comparing apples to oranges here. And buy what we love and wear.

BTW, I am a big Lange fan and think that 1815 is very good value and have one of the best movements out there.


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Very familiar with the CS, thank you. Intimately familiar with what we are discussing.

1815 and CS are, as starting points, in the same place as one another. They are direct competitors in the same price range, it’s obviously no longer an apples to apples comparison, because you have now added an orange to one apple, a chrono to the 1815. It’s a valid comparison to speak of, a regular BMW 3 series and a regular Alfa Romeo Guilia. With the chrono you’ve turned the 3er into an M3. And the regular Giulia is priced like the M3.

No one in their right mind would compare an 1815 chrono to a Dufour. I know what I’m paying for, horologically, in buying a Dufour. I don’t know what I’m paying for horologically in buying a CS for the same price as an 1815 chrono. Do you?

It’s buying the (manufactured) hype.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by lovetherolex

Very familiar with the CS, thank you. Intimately familiar with what we are discussing.

1815 and CS are, as starting points, in the same place as one another. They are direct competitors in the same price range, it’s obviously no longer an apples to apples comparison, because you have now added an orange to one apple, a chrono to the 1815. It’s a valid comparison to speak of, a regular BMW 3 series and a regular Alfa Romeo Guilia. With the chrono you’ve turned the 3er into an M3. And the regular Giulia is priced like the M3.

No one in their right mind would compare an 1815 chrono to a Dufour. I know what I’m paying for, horologically, in buying a Dufour. I don’t know what I’m paying for horologically in buying a CS for the same price as an 1815 chrono. Do you?

It’s buying the (manufactured) hype.

I was bringing up Dufour since you seems to be comparing the 1815 chronograph as a complication to a simple CS.

Anyway, we should all buy what we like.

As for price range, the list of a CS is cheaper than the 1815. And I agree that buying at the “hyped” aftermarket is nuts for any modern watches.


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[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by llngoc

I think the FPJ price craze was mostly after one auction at the end of 2019.

Then you’re not deep enough in it.

Or new.

And that’s fine.

Originally Posted by llngoc

But at least the Journe boutique would not coerce you to spend on items you do not want in order to get a watch. Most Rolex, AP, PP dealers all now want to you spend $X to get a sub/RO/Nautilus.

Once again, you must be new. If you think that having spent $$$ won’t easily get you a CB, or even another CB, you’re not deep enough in it. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But contrary to what you’ve written here, it does work that way, high amounts of $$$ spent does get you what you want.

Originally Posted by llngoc

But we should all buy what we love and wear and not what people on this forum likes. And most definitely not to buy one as an “investment”.

Who is the feel good statement for? The OP asked about these two…

[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by llngoc

As for price range, the list of a CS is cheaper than the 1815. And I agree that buying at the “hyped” aftermarket is nuts for any modern watches.

Are you telling me the CS and 1815 up down aren’t direct competitors in the exact same price range? A 1815 up down is in dollars 31 and change at retail, the direct competitor gold CS is above that by a negligible amount. They are direct competitors in the same price range. Do you think that’s an accident?

Now add a chrono to the 1815, adding that luscious flavor of orange to one of the apples. OP said they are the same price for him, so he’s considering both…

Originally Posted by llngoc

I was bringing up Dufour since you seems to be comparing the 1815 chronograph as a complication to a simple CS.

Anyway, we should all buy what we like.

Who is comparing?

Just going to leave this here for you. It’s been nice chatting.

Originally Posted by shafran

I am considering one of these 2 on the secondary market.
The lange 1815 chrono, rg white dial, journe cs rose gold white dial, they actually are priced the same. Forgetting what else I own, which would you get and why.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by lovetherolex

Rolex wasn’t made by Watchbox. FPJ indisputably was.

Incorrect, I got into FPJ 10 years ago, having read an online article about them, and later I watched a rather quirky YT documentary about the brand and the man. I bought my Octa RDM five years ago.

Instagram has since popularised FPJ, unfortunately IMO. Any watch enthusiast paying attention knew about FPJ years earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ciWgA1QiMk

[lovetherolex]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

Incorrect, I got into FPJ 10 years ago, having read an online article about them, and later I watched a rather quirky YT documentary about the brand and the man. I bought my Octa RDM five years ago.

Instagram has since popularised FPJ, unfortunately IMO. Any watch enthusiast paying attention knew about FPJ years earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ciWgA1QiMk

Talking about hype. Enthusiastic collectors kept FPJ in the dumps of retail sales for years. Yes, collectors such as yourself were buying FPJ at steep discounts (I hope), and still taking a bath on them.

Then the hype came along, on the backs of Watchbox’s secondary market inventory controls and commensurate pricing controls.

Watchbox has been hyping FPJ for years, Watchbox controls most of the secondhand inventory, and has for years and years, before the hype. Do you deny that?

Just because you weren’t aware of it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Edit: an FPJ promotional video from 7 years ago, what does that prove? There are collectors who bought the watches over 2 decades ago, so what? Big discounts and still lost on them when sold. Now go look back at videos to see how many years long Watchbox has been hyping FPJ and controlling the secondhand market in pricing and inventory. Please report back when you find this buildup and control moves the prices and built the hype. Even those within FPJ don’t deny that, but you do?

The simplistic “Instagram hype” line regurgitated all over the Internet doesn’t apply here without missing the actual facts. If you believe this happened to FPJ over organic Instagram hype I have a bridge to sell you.

[danicasi2002]

Originally Posted by mchen42

See the photos, I tried the 1815 chronograph at lange boutique. Good looking but I chose Journe.




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I really like your combination of brown calf strap with the RG CS white dial. It is elegant without going to the more expensive alligator strap. Did you obtain that from the boutique? Does yours come with a buckle or deployant clasp.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by mchen42

See the photos, I tried the 1815 chronograph at lange boutique. Good looking but I chose Journe.







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Is the second picture with the TV Honey calf strap?


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[mchen42]

Originally Posted by danicasi2002

I really like your combination of brown calf strap with the RG CS white dial. It is elegant without going to the more expensive alligator strap. Did you obtain that from the boutique? Does yours come with a buckle or deployant clasp.

Yes, I do. I got two straps when I got the CS from boutique. It is a buckle and i think I need to pay extra if I want a deployant clasp.


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[mchen42]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Is the second picture with the TV Honey calf strap?


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Haha, yes. I got it when I purchased the CS.


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[llngoc]

Originally Posted by mchen42

Yes, I do. I got two straps when I got the CS from boutique. It is a buckle and i think I need to pay extra if I want a deployant clasp.


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We are strap twins. That’s the one I just put onto my RQ.

Hopefully to haul me over until an TV shows up.

[mchen42]

Originally Posted by llngoc

We are strap twins. That’s the one I just put onto my RQ.

Hopefully to haul me over until an TV shows up.

Hahaha, found a brother. Let’s take a picture when we meet. Hopefully, at that time, I could get what I want.


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