Would you rather?

[Chewbacca]

Officially: Freely available.

My Rolex journey was about it’s fair and honest accessibility for someone who saved or hit a milestone and wanted a solid robust Swiss lifetime watch. Not a speculative hedge or investment or status symbol driven by extrapolative price pressures simply because people (normies) fear missing out or expect to make future capital gains from reselling.

Unofficially: Now! More for us (wealthy) who know how to obtain them (grey $$$) and totally appreciate the collector (investor) grade quality of the Swiss status symbol accessory.

Say NO to normies (<00000.1%ers) !!

[dwjez14]

I remember back when ADs had multiple lv in display case couldn’t sale them. I prefer save money lots of stock and discount on watches. I don’t care who else has them or how many are in the wild. I know a lot of people some successful some not. Only 2 people I know even care to have a Rolex and both care to have multiples. I bet 5 out of 100 people don’t even care about Rolex. I have a very good friend very successful. He asked me one time what I paid my dd40. I told him 35k he said holy crap I would never spend that and 2 I thought a watch like that would be 100k. Most think Rolex are so expensive they wouldn’t even ever look at them. So with a flooded market what are the chances we are really going to see that many more Rolex?. Even at retail a sub is still close to 10k with tax ? Most People wouldn’t dream of spending that kind of money on a watch. We are a very small group of hard working and smart people who work hard to spoil ourselves. Congrats to all

[1William]

The market has changed but there is no lack of watches. You can still buy whatever you want, just not from an AD.

[teck21]

Originally Posted by 1William

The market has changed but there is no lack of watches. You can still buy whatever you want, just not from an AD.

That’s right. And as others have pointed out time and again, a whole world of watches out there besides Rolex for watch lovers.

The democratisation of Rolex ownership has created some real salty attitudes.


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[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by eanzenberg

Would you rather have watches freely available at retail and trading for less than msrp on the grey market, or the world we have today?

We have both right now, it all depends on herd mentality and what is deemed popular / FOMO. While the selfish part of me wishes things were back to 'normal', it is great to see so many timepiece companies succeeding within the marketplace today. There's also far more competition at certain levels of the craft we've never had in the past, so this is a BIG plus imho.

Overall i'll take today, for the simple reason of the health of the industry and the ability for truly talented watchmakers to have the ability to 'break out' on their own (and/or with friends).

[Tricolore66]

I liked it better when except for a few pieces you could buy pretty much anything you wanted. It doesn’t have anything to do with cost, but with the hobby. It used to be all about watches, now it’s all about acquiring the watches.

[dtwer]

I quite enjoy the current state. And I foresee Rolex becoming ever more exclusive and successful in the years to come.

The market covets Rolex not because it's a mediocre, discounted product. The fact that buyers are willing to pay a heavy premium speaks to the superior value that Rolex offers, and that is a good thing for all of us who own the watches.

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by dtwer

I quite enjoy the current state. And I foresee Rolex becoming ever more exclusive and successful in the years to come.

The market covets Rolex not because it's a mediocre, discounted product. The fact that buyers are willing to pay a heavy premium speaks to the superior value that Rolex offers, and that is a good thing for all of us who own the watches.

Perceived value *


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[shaunylw]

Originally Posted by dtwer

I quite enjoy the current state. And I foresee Rolex becoming ever more exclusive and successful in the years to come.

The market covets Rolex not because it's a mediocre, discounted product. The fact that buyers are willing to pay a heavy premium speaks to the superior value that Rolex offers, and that is a good thing for all of us who own the watches.

They’re not exclusive now, they make nearly 1M watches . You want exclusive, you need something like F.P Journe numbers, 800-1000 watches per year. Rolex makes significantly more than that in half a day. I believe they will try to position themselves as an exclusive brand, because why not! It’s smart, people love to feel exclusive. But walk into any country club and gather 20-30 guys, you’re going to see at least 2-3 submariners. Rolex isn’t a very exclusive club.


Rolex is great and at MSRP, lots of value for the money. Over MSRP like a Daytona or an OP, nowhere near good enough or worth it. I do agree on the success in the years to come. I don’t think there is anything that’s going to derail the current demand. We could have a near market crash and their will be lines of people willing to buy.

We are living in a very strange time in the watch world, most of which can be seen by the new threads that continue popping up here. It’s all value, speculation, and what’s next to be discontinued.


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[Jack T]

Doesn't matter to me.

What I would really like is a return to the times when this was a site that one could discuss watches, compare models, talk about straps, modifications, servicing issues, watch shows, new models and all the things that have drawn us in to this hobby; and not the whining about availability, dealer tactics and how much is it worth threads that seem so prevalent.

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Perceived value *


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Agree, my friend. All things in this world have a value that is relative to circumstances and therefore, perceived. For illustration, look no further than the prices and availability of a package of toilet paper throughout the pandemic.

[dtwer]

Originally Posted by shaunylw

They’re not exclusive now, they make nearly 1M watches . You want exclusive, you need something like F.P Journe numbers, 800-1000 watches per year. Rolex makes significantly more than that in half a day. I believe they will try to position themselves as an exclusive brand, because why not! It’s smart, people love to feel exclusive. But walk into any country club and gather 20-30 guys, you’re going to see at least 2-3 submariners. Rolex isn’t a very exclusive club.


Rolex is great and at MSRP, lots of value for the money. Over MSRP like a Daytona or an OP, nowhere near good enough or worth it. I do agree on the success in the years to come. I don’t think there is anything that’s going to derail the current demand. We could have a near market crash and their will be lines of people willing to buy.

We are living in a very strange time in the watch world, most of which can be seen by the new threads that continue popping up here. It’s all value, speculation, and what’s next to be discontinued.


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Largely agreed, except a different take on the exclusivity part.

I think Rolex, at the MSRP price point, is exclusive. It's hard to get one at MSRP. The number of watches Rolex produces doesn't negate the concept of exclusivity as long as the demand from the market far exceeds the supply.

[JakeK]

Yesteryear for sure. I don't buy watches for value retention or investment purposes. I buy them to wear them. That's it. For me value comes from hard work, not speculation.

I was lucky to be able to buy a watch that has doubled in value in less than 12 months and lucky only in the sense that it is a watch that I love to wear and I am lucky to be able to wear it since you can't get it from an AD or boutique anymore. I'm not selling it even if it triples in value.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

I don’t really know what it was like before. I was a broke student when it mattered

Let’s be honest, if Rolex weren’t what it is today; the watch world would not be as active. Probably slowly fading into obscurity instead.

I’m sure those of us who love watches for what they are would still be here, but it would be a much smaller community.

This is a really interesting and thought provoking response Nick.

I tend to agree. I’ve been an enthusiast for over 30 years and remember times when I could get a 25% discount on a Seadweller, and when Daytona’s were the ugly stepchild

Although today’s “hype” or whatever you want to call it drives me nuts, I’m not sure what the mechanical watch world looks like without a certain amount of “hard to get”

[franktehtank]

The former. It would get rid of a lot of the nonsense going on with the hobby, not to mention a lot of the newer "enthusiasts" (read: hype beasts). Plus, I could easily get the watches I want, and no one would say "brooo that the pepsi? That the panda?? Can I snap a pic for the gram?"

[Aquinas]

I appreciate that many people have to compensate for status insecurities, but it would be lovely if they could do that with something else than leisure watches. Why not fancy tophats? I would be very fine with fancy tophats being unobtainable and being shown off on instagram, if I could get a Submariner worth 5k EUR for that price.
In other words, give me back 2008.

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by JakeK

Yesteryear for sure. I don't buy watches for value retention or investment purposes. I buy them to wear them. That's it. For me value comes from hard work, not speculation.

I was lucky to be able to buy a watch that has doubled in value in less than 12 months and lucky only in the sense that it is a watch that I love to wear and I am lucky to be able to wear it since you can't get it from an AD or boutique anymore. I'm not selling it even if it triples in value.

I am in the same boat. I bought mine in August of 2020 from a trusted seller and it was mint with everything. I got it for a nice discount since it was pre-owned, like the good old days. I had no idea that literally one month later Rolex was going to discontinue the dial and that prices would suddenly jump up. Now there are sellers asking almost 75% more than what I paid for mine. If I had waited even one more month I could not have found the deal I did, and today... I would never pay the market price for my watch. I'll never sell it, but at these prices I don't know if I would replace it if something ever happened to it.

[bob sims]

Originally Posted by Aquinas

I appreciate that many people have to compensate for status insecurities, but it would be lovely if they could do that with something else than leisure watches. Why not fancy tophats? I would be very fine with fancy tophats being unobtainable and being shown off on instagram, if I could get a Submariner worth 5k EUR for that price.
In other words, give me back 2008.

[eanzenberg]

Originally Posted by horseShu

but we DO have watches that are available in boutiques and trading for less than msrp on the grey market...

oh, i'm sorry. so only Rolex are considered 'watches' now? i swear, the low blows keep getting lower these days...

That wasn’t my point. In other words, you can experience “how it used to be” by going to other high quality brands that are freely available at msrp but lots of people don’t do that, and especially on a “Rolex” forum. I have my reasons why I appreciate Rolex quality over other brands and I’m sure others have their own reasons, beyond numbers on a spreadsheet going up.

[samuel019]

Flame me but I’d happily go back to yesteryear in a New York second

Never ever ever looked at my watches/collection as money in the bank/investments. At least back “then” I could walk in and buy whatever I wanted outside a basically a Daytona. To all the members that say they still can and have had no change more power to em granted I do believe even with the best of best relationships it’s still not like it used to be.

Cases full. Walk in. Try on. Negotiate a tad. Walk out knowing you got an incredible watch and a small piece of history. Now it’s, well we all know what now is like.

As far as the “chase”? Yeah it has its elements of fun but I remember when I was chasing the “available funds” and not the watch. A time when having the money was the hard part now it’s the easy part and that’s not what owning a Rolex is to me. It’s the saving or having the money to buy a new Rolex to mark a special occasion.

Over the last few years I reprogrammed my brain to spend amounts of money I thought I would never spend. Especially PM. When I bought my 126715/326935 the amount I had to spend, even A D route, was shocking when they both could’ve been bought with massive discounts. PM Daytona’s and DayDates in the $20’s. For newbies yes it’s true. Search any PM model in the classifieds here on TRF and go back a few pages your brain will explode.

Just would rather have a time when it’s ALL about the watch and not what you have to spend, beg, hope, pray, wait, ask Santa, to get a Rolex.

So yes give me yesteryear allllllllllllllllllll day long and half the night.

[1995akcoop]

Originally Posted by horseShu

but we DO have watches that are available in boutiques and trading for less than msrp on the grey market...

oh, i'm sorry. so only Rolex are considered 'watches' now? i swear, the low blows keep getting lower these days...

But it’s a Rolex forum.


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[noshake]

It would be nice to be able to go into a store and try on pieces before buying the one that fits/speaks to you. But this is the new normal...

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[peterp]

Today. How boring would be this fourm otherwise...

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by peterp

Today. How boring would be this fourm otherwise...

The 4d 5d era was a lot lot lot more fun and educational around here.

Interchangeable parts, imperfect watches, quick availability after Basel, technical questions were relatable because owners could work things out on their own, Tudor was an intriguing outlier, more market-specific Rolexeses, better ADs, better forum banter, less one ups man ship, less fraud, generally simply more enthusiasm for the life with the watch than life obtaining the watch, etc…

(And no, I’m not that old.)

[eltonbalch]

Originally Posted by DCheeta

I don’t care. Either way is fine with me.

Pretty much this…

[Laostuh]

I wish it was like back in 2017 where you could walk into an AD, tell them what watch you wanted and negotiate a discount. Got my GMT 116710LN for $7500 otd... Good times.

[Tzmore]

Yes.

[dannyp]

Tough one: I tend to like black dials… except when paired with steel/YG TT. And I’m not a fan of the Wimbledon dial… unless it’s with steel/YG TT.

Bracelet would be tiebreaker for me. Not a fan of Wimbledon with Oyster at all.

[samuel019]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

The 4d 5d era was a lot lot lot more fun and educational around here.

Interchangeable parts, imperfect watches, quick availability after Basel, technical questions were relatable because owners could work things out on their own, Tudor was an intriguing outlier, more market-specific Rolexeses, better ADs, better forum banter, less one ups man ship, less fraud, generally simply more enthusiasm for the life with the watch than life obtaining the watch, etc…

(And no, I’m not that old.)

Well said!!! Couldn’t agree more

(And I’m not as well) but it sure seems like it

[Recondope]

Originally Posted by donas

I'll take yesteryear without a second thought. For those who truly want to own a Rolex for the quality etc of the watch and not as an "investment" or instagram flex why the heck wouldn't you want is below msrp? If for no other reason, it would eliminate 80% of the frivolous threads on TRF now about investing, building "AD relationships", should I buy this watch I don't like because it is offered to me, and the list goes on.