5470P monopusher split second

[Vasco]

I like how Patek takes a complication and optimizes it.

The Centigraph is a watch I loved long ago and I followed as a tech nerd myself. But it was totally inaccurate in the way it starts stops, and it isn't reliable at all (as many FPJ in the past, I don't know now).

It was the same with the A Resonnance I was attracted to. But watches kept on going back to servicing as they couldn't fix them.

I love L. Ballouard's approach and especially De Bethune.

This watch isn't "just" a 1/10th of a second chronograph, it is about accuracy, reliability and energy consumption.

With CNC and computer-assisting, more brands can develop complications. But how well can they do that is the real question. From what I see, no improvements and many flaws we don't see (consumption, accuracy, old and unoptimized choices because it requires time and knowhow to solve).

I've seen some Czapek when launched a while ago (2016 or so?) as I was curious. I wasn't impressed by the finishing in the real on the classical line-up. Then, I discovered it was a Marketing team creating a new brand (thus the name). I saw recently 2 releases (the 2 Faubourg de Cracovie), one is too much the 5930's dial, the other one is like the 5960G's colors. It looked too much Patek to me and I don't like that approach.

On the other hand, they seem to have talent though. They should go their own way imho.

I loved what S. McDonnell did with the MB&F Legacy Perpetual.

There are some 5470 screenshots showing also all the anti-shocks, anti-backlash features, which are practical and not blingy:

https://www.hightime-reviews.com/pat...r-chronograph/

[dauster]

Originally Posted by 77T

5470P is their first chronograph capable of one-tenth of a second. New manual caliber CH 29-535 PS 1/10 beats at a frequency of 5 Hz (that’s 36,000 per hour).

It is equipped with an additional chronograph mechanism dedicated to measuring and precisely displaying stopped tenths of a second.

A two-step read for those needing that precision.

Video: https://theforwardgroup.us6.list-man...4&e=76de31c436

Be patient, the servers are slammed.

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thank you really enjoyed the video and learned a lot - I just wish I could see it in person one day - maybe at the salon at some point this year

[Nicof]

Originally Posted by 77T

5470P is their first chronograph capable of one-tenth of a second. New manual caliber CH 29-535 PS 1/10 beats at a frequency of 5 Hz (that’s 36,000 per hour).

It is equipped with an additional chronograph mechanism dedicated to measuring and precisely displaying stopped tenths of a second.

A two-step read for those needing that precision.

Video: https://theforwardgroup.us6.list-man...4&e=76de31c436

Be patient, the servers are slammed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

This video more than justifies the price of this watch in my opinion. Very very impressive.


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[77T]

I don’t know the price except for the posts by others here.

The design is special and execution looks splendid.

But $300K+ is daunting.


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[subtona]

its nice but way to thick for my liking.

how about a nice 5950 in a cushion case 10.15mm :)

[dauster]

Originally Posted by 77T

I don’t know the price except for the posts by others here.

The design is special and execution looks splendid.

But $300K+ is daunting.


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for the normal PP guy on here isn't the price kind of irrelevant ? how many are they going to make ? Is anybody on here actually expecting an allocation ?

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I like how Patek takes a complication and optimizes it.

The Centigraph is a watch I loved long ago and I followed as a tech nerd myself. But it was totally inaccurate in the way it starts stops, and it isn't reliable at all (as many FPJ in the past, I don't know now).

It was the same with the A Resonnance I was attracted to. But watches kept on going back to servicing as they couldn't fix them.

I love L. Ballouard's approach and especially De Bethune.

This watch isn't "just" a 1/10th of a second chronograph, it is about accuracy, reliability and energy consumption.

With CNC and computer-assisting, more brands can develop complications. But how well can they do that is the real question. From what I see, no improvements and many flaws we don't see (consumption, accuracy, old and unoptimized choices because it requires time and knowhow to solve).

I've seen some Czapek when launched a while ago (2016 or so?) as I was curious. I wasn't impressed by the finishing in the real on the classical line-up. Then, I discovered it was a Marketing team creating a new brand (thus the name). I saw recently 2 releases (the 2 Faubourg de Cracovie), one is too much the 5930's dial, the other one is like the 5960G's colors. It looked too much Patek to me and I don't like that approach.

On the other hand, they seem to have talent though. They should go their own way imho.

I loved what S. McDonnell did with the MB&F Legacy Perpetual.

There are some 5470 screenshots showing also all the anti-shocks, anti-backlash features, which are practical and not blingy:

https://www.hightime-reviews.com/pat...r-chronograph/

good points and I agree with what you have prioritized about accuracy.

also my experience with the resonance was the same. If I were just a collector, maybe it would be acceptable to have a piece of art like the resonance in the collection but if wearing and using as intended I would rather have reliability and accuracy.

Originally Posted by dauster

for the normal PP guy on here isn't the price kind of irrelevant ? how many are they going to make ? Is anybody on here actually expecting an allocation ?

when we jump to 300-400 it becomes relevant quickly ... even though you might be able to trade a Daytona for one soon if things keep going the way their going

[Mattt]

Originally Posted by dauster

for the normal PP guy on here isn't the price kind of irrelevant ? how many are they going to make ? Is anybody on here actually expecting an allocation ?

$300k for a piece is very relevant for lots of PP clients.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Mattt

$300k for a piece is very relevant for lots of PP clients.

Well it’s 380k CHF - my point was why argue about pricing for a very likely unobtainable piece like this that very few people will actually be offered but maybe I’m wrong and you will get one !!!


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[Uros]

Would it put me on the list for Nautilus?:):)


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[Megalobyte]

Of course I like it. And I appreciate it’s a 1/10 second split. But the price! For 75k I’ll stick with this. 85% of the horology for 20% of the price.


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[Vasco]

Originally Posted by subtona

good points and I agree with what you have prioritized about accuracy.

also my experience with the resonance was the same. If I were just a collector, maybe it would be acceptable to have a piece of art like the resonance in the collection but if wearing and using as intended I would rather have reliability and accuracy.

Agreed, I'd love to have indeed this Resonance, first version with the "twin" displays ^^

[77T]

I’ve been admiring this great new complication. Read much of the collateral material PP emailed me. Also watched the video more than once.

Here is my question: in the picture below, what is the chrono’s elapsed time at the moment the image was made?




We can all agree it is 10:09:00 local time indicated on the main hours/minutes/petit seconds hands.

But what is the chrono’s indicated lap time to the 10ths of a second?

And what appears to be wrong with that chrono elapsed time?


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[DonLee]

Originally Posted by 77T

But what is the chrono’s indicated lap time to the 10ths of a second?

And what appears to be wrong with that chrono elapsed time?


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Isn’t it indicating 1 minute 20.0 seconds?

[77T]

I think you’re right - could also be 31:20.0, 61:20.0, etc in 30 minute increments. But that isn’t what peaked my interest.




My question is if it’s 01:20.0 - why then is the petit minutes subdial showing the hand “dead-on” the 1 minute hash.

Shouldn’t it be 40% closer to the 2 minute hash? Or does it step in full minutes increments?


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[NiceShirt]

Originally Posted by 77T

I think you’re right - could also be 31:20.0, 61:20.0, etc in 30 minute increments. But that isn’t what peaked my interest.




My question is if it’s 01:20.0 - why then is the petit minutes subdial showing the hand “dead-on” the 1 minute hash.

Shouldn’t it be 40% closer to the 2 minute hash? Or does it step in full minutes increments?


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I think that is correct. Chronograph minutes subdial only moves in on minute increments.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by 77T

I think you’re right - could also be 31:20.0, 61:20.0, etc in 30 minute increments. But that isn’t what peaked my interest.




My question is if it’s 01:20.0 - why then is the petit minutes subdial showing the hand “dead-on” the 1 minute hash.

Shouldn’t it be 40% closer to the 2 minute hash? Or does it step in full minutes increments?


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The timer reads 1 min 40 seconds bang on. Red hand would be the chrono seconds. The minutes jump cleanly at turn.

My take.

Edit: Nevermind completely wrong haha I agree it’s 1 min 20 sec!

[EdwardC]

Awesome watch, and makes me like my 5170r even more.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

FPJ has far better traditional handcrafting too. But i get it, years ago felt PP could never misstep. So i very much understand the blind faith in the PP religion.

I doubt FPJ watches have many handcrafting elements. Their guilloche is stamped and you don't see sharp inward angles (a sign that the bevel on a movement is manually hand-finished) in their movements. Patek at least still do hand-turn guilloche on their Worldtime and some GC, and finishes their repeater movements with sharp inward angles.

And there are also time resource and price factors. Patek produces 60,000 watches a year and their 3-hander Calatrava is sold at a tiny fraction (in terms of pricing) of Kari's handmade watches. We can't expect the finishing on a Calatrava to be the same as the 28 given the vast difference in pricing. I also doubt Patek is able to scale up its number of watchmakers to the extent they can match Kari's finishing on every watch, even if they want to, because such talents are limited. Finally, do consumers want to pay 120k for a basic Calatrava? The market would be a much smaller one, and this will also affect Patek's revenue (+ profit) where it matters the most.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Czapek had a split-second launch this week. Great price, incredible handcraftsmanship, and WOW talk about innovation you an see with your own eyes. Alas, i believe it is sold out, which is very understandable when you look at the design.

Great piece, but don’t worry, the next release will be along later this year/early next year with a slight variance to keep everyone happy.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by 77T

Here is my question: in the picture below, what is the chrono’s elapsed time at the moment the image was made?



But what is the chrono’s indicated lap time to the 10ths of a second?

And what appears to be wrong with that chrono elapsed time?

1) Indeed, all the 29-535 based manual-wound chronographs have this instantaneous jump minute hand (right subdial)

2) For the chronograph, the red hand shows the 1/10th while the central grey one displays the seconds.

Hence, here, it indicates 1 minute, 20 seconds and 0 1/10th of a second. Had the chronograph been stopped 1/10th later, the red hand would have faced the very first next little increment. And, 9/10th later, the next second, the red hand would have reached the next red marker (at 9 o'clock).

Each red marker is placed at the next second increment (thus coincides with the grey hand showing the exact plain second, indicated by an applied "cabochon").

When the grey hand is between 2 different second ticks (2 cabochons), then you should also read the red hand to see on which mark it is (between 2 red marks).

Hence, we understand that each second of the chronograph, the 1/10th of a second should be facing a red mark on a different section of the 1/10th scale (there are 12 sections). No matter which section.

In fact, if they had made a single section, the hand would have been traveling at 1 lap every second against of 1 lap every 12 seconds. This would have led to more wear on the gears, especially when it stops.

On a practical level, the red marks also help reading the hours.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I doubt FPJ watches have many handcrafting elements. Their guilloche is stamped and you don't see sharp inward angles (a sign that the bevel on a movement is manually hand-finished) in their movements. Patek at least still do hand-turn guilloche on their Worldtime and some GC, and finishes their repeater movements with sharp inward angles.

And there are also time resource and price factors. Patek produces 60,000 watches a year and their 3-hander Calatrava is sold at a tiny fraction (in terms of pricing) of Kari's handmade watches. We can't expect the finishing on a Calatrava to be the same as the 28 given the vast difference in pricing. I also doubt Patek is able to scale up its number of watchmakers to the extent they can match Kari's finishing on every watch, even if they want to, because such talents are limited. Finally, do consumers want to pay 120k for a basic Calatrava? The market would be a much smaller one, and this will also affect Patek's revenue (+ profit) where it matters the most.

Have to agree. I’m an absolute Journe kool aid drinker but you don’t buy Journe for hand finishing. Movement design. Dial design. Unique Journe aesthetic.

Finishing is an interesting part of the watch world. Some it’s all they care about and their grail is a Dufour while others care more about the overall aesthetic, history, complications etc

If I had a Dufour I’d immediately trade it for a box of Journes, Pateks and MBF!

[enjoythemusic]

Does anyone know the weight?

Was chatting with a friend and he brought up wrist balance. Am a bit surprised both strap and matching metal band are not simply part of the overall product package, especially given the pricing. Have to admit that wrist balance didn't pass my thought until he mentioned it. We know the dimensions and thickness of the case. Since a strap is light, with a heavy head weight wrist balance could be a concern.

Anyone know the weight of the head?

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Finishing is an interesting part of the watch world. Some it’s all they care about and their grail is a Dufour while others care more about the overall aesthetic, history, complications etc

If I had a Dufour I’d immediately trade it for a box of Journes, Pateks and MBF!

I would love to own a Simplicity but did not have the luck at the 10 piece lottery. Hope to get lucky for the RRCC2. This is sheer horological finishing flex.

IMG_07042022_204627_(900_x_700_pixel).jpg

IMG_07042022_204326_(950_x_700_pixel).jpg
Photos from SJX.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Does anyone know the weight?

Was chatting with a friend and he brought up wrist balance. Am a bit surprised both strap and matching metal band are not simply part of the overall product package, especially given the pricing. Have to admit that wrist balance didn't pass my thought until he mentioned it. We know the dimensions and thickness of the case. Since a strap is light, with a heavy head weight wrist balance could be a concern.

Anyone know the weight of the head?

Since it is a development of the 5370 movement in a 5370P case (exactly the same width and 0.12mm thicker) then I guess it wears the same as a 5370P, which means it will be pretty near perfect.

[mdtddd2007]

A very nice watch!

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I would love to own a Simplicity but did not have the luck at the 10 piece lottery. Hope to get lucky for the RRCC2. This is sheer horological finishing flex.

Attachment 1284406

Attachment 1284407
Photos from SJX.

An incredible watch where the dial side is as good imho. I would prefer a CC2 to a simplicity.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

This is sheer horological finishing flex.

Well... ok, there's the other extreme of where, ummm, well... those who admire... a different expression of the 'language' of horology... and... ummm... not sure that's even fair to PP bringing RR's mind-blowing abilities into this.

That's like comparing top-line Lexus/Mercedes to Pagani. Pagani is a 'different language' to some extent in exotic automobiles... than even the exalted 'Holy Trinity' Ferrari.

And c'mon let's at least play 'fair' as RR is just so intoxicating on so many levels... imho. Then there's Kari.... and Max... and... PP does what it can to push out 50k products a year. They're one of the Big Box producers. Maybe PP needs a spin-off brand, or, you know, a Conneseur Series?

[7sins]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

or, you know, a Conneseur Series?

Wouldn't that be their Grand Complications line?

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by 7sins

Wouldn't that be their Grand Complications line?

Good point, yet alas no. That would mean there will never be a truly high-end Calatrava produced that provides 'full expression' of the art/language to PP's best abilities. If you look around at what's going on with 'simple time' wrist instruments from other brands (dare we include Seiko), PP is (huuuge imho) not able to compete within that arena's 'horological language' at PP's given price structure imho. To use youthful verbiage, perhaps PP should 'flex' just a bit more? (not a lot, just a bit, call it ~25% leanings more towards RR plus a bit of...).

Then there's....

imho

imho

<ducks for cover, because even i kinda sorta see your point, yet....>

Fully understand that Patek would never want to be, for example, Czapek with their SXH5 calibre. That's not the 'horological language' of PP. Yet look at VC, or even Grand Seiko.

ALS does some very artistic expression.

Imho, and i can't believe i'm using my 'out loud' voice to say this, Patek is simply falling behind when it comes to various things. And since this is only my opinion (and this is the Internet folks, so please fully ignore me as am totally cool with that), this is just me, my opinion, just a guy on the internet.

PP is capable of more, much more. Of this i am thoroughly convinced!

Another question, let's say it goes upscale as i feel it should be.... is the craft done in-house, or like others who hire out? It's common knowledge this happens with various brands. And if PP hires out, am 100% cool with that yet let's thank these craftspeople who dedicated many years in... by naming names.

Let's also remember this is a HUMAN endeavor of love. (Well, for some of us it is love... as there may be heavy-handed bean counters lurking around with some companies).

Uh oh, probably an irrelevant side-story...
Look, i worked at Heathkit many years ago and we had the Most Accurate Clock. Digital, precise, and sold many of them to TV stations, a few Ham radio guys, etc. But it's not... ummm.... but it's accurate as heck!

Side story aside, and getting back to the language, expression if you will, of watchmaking, this is where, and proving my 'insanity(?)', guys like Max and FRIENDS work together on mechanical wrist art (which happens to also operate in a rhythmic manner that enables the machine to 'tell the time'... perhaps date, etc). It's a different language to be sure.

i best stop typing. In the end, use your eyes. Look at it, does it truly 'speak' to you. Ignore the 'noise' of....

Is this something that brings joyous time into your life? If your answer is yes, then imho it doesn't matter if it is my Hamilton PSR MTX, vintage Spaceview, SkyD, PP 3820rg, Speedy, Cartier Tank, Monaco GULF, Panerai TRON, MB&F LM101 Willy Wonka... or the fun-loving Sherman by L'Epee 1839 & Friends.

Would love to once again become a customer of PP, yet for now, there's nothing there that truly excites at 'normal' levels we mere mortals could consider. There are far better out there at the same 'ask', which speak to me more. It's me, just how i personally feel. Again, am just a guy on the internet.

Some love classical music, others opera, and still, others love prog, or jazz, or rap.... In a sense, think of today's various 'modern' horology 'languages' like music genres. One man's blues is another man's salvation.

Thanks for your time if you read this far. Apologies for a long post, i didn't have time to write a shorter one.

PS: Hmmm, kinda funny... this song just started on my background music stream.