Talking watches with FHB / Hodinkee

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by dauster

Agreed, honestly I was kinda underwhelmed with the interview. Yeah I get it you know Arnold and Jay-z and that’s cool but what about watchmaking etc. didn’t even discuss any concept watches or renaud et papi.
Totally agreed feels like they should no longer be part of the holy trinity if they so focused on alyx and Travis Scott collabs.
I love the Royal Oak but that they focused on the stupid marvel and code instead of other highlights idk feels like I should buy the 16202 a Nashville watch with the 50th anniversary for $75k and then be done. If I ever have to much money I’ll buy a black ceramic RO but other than that what else is there really


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Yea. It’ll be interesting to see where AP is in 20 years. To hear FHB talk about how no one wanted to retail or buy an AP 25 years ago, who knows what will happen in another 25.

I don’t think the new CEO will be any different. Sales and Marketing background. Zero experience in watches, came from perfume and hair care. It’s really quite disappointing. I wouldn’t be surprised if the AP fad passes like Panerai did and the watches are significantly discounted in the next 2 decades.

[gptwc]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

Yea. It’ll be interesting to see where AP is in 20 years. To hear FHB talk about how no one wanted to retail or buy an AP 25 years ago, who knows what will happen in another 25.

I don’t think the new CEO will be any different. Sales and Marketing background. Zero experience in watches, came from perfume and hair care. It’s really quite disappointing. I wouldn’t be surprised if the AP fad passes like Panerai did and the watches are significantly discounted in the next 2 decades.

Read some analysis that maybe they are trying to do more lady watches in the futures. That's why they need a woman CEO with zero watch background, aiming to be the Hermes Brand of watches

[Palex]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

It’s an interesting interview and kudos to FHB on what he’s been able to accomplish with AP from a business perspective.

Funny enough after seeing this interview it solidified how I feel about AP. They make beautiful watches, like jewelry. But they aren’t at the core focused on watchmaking. It’s more about marketing, fashion and sales. It really is a completely different perspective and interview when hearing from FHB and how he came up, vs Thierry Stern from Patek who started first with watchmaking.

Not core focused on watchmaking? Take a look at the Code Universelle and read about it.

[Napaswar]

Originally Posted by dauster

Agreed, honestly I was kinda underwhelmed with the interview. Yeah I get it you know Arnold and Jay-z and that’s cool but what about watchmaking etc. didn’t even discuss any concept watches or renaud et papi.
Totally agreed feels like they should no longer be part of the holy trinity if they so focused on alyx and Travis Scott collabs.
I love the Royal Oak but that they focused on the stupid marvel and code instead of other highlights idk feels like I should buy the 16202 a Nashville watch with the 50th anniversary for $75k and then be done. If I ever have to much money I’ll buy a black ceramic RO but other than that what else is there really


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AP is undoubtedly one of a holy trinity if we still care about it. They still create high craftsmanship and complications from APRP approved by GPHG grand trophies that I would love to see from others 2 or a German friend.

Many haters just feel uncomfortable with collab projects that are less than 5% of their 50K capacity which 99% of customers can't even buy or see in a flesh.

In the interview, it seems FHB knows the market where to play, and how to win. Short-sight strategy? He started collab products with Arnold and Jay-Z decades ago and that has brought AP here. I'm not sure focusing on "rich heritage" and "traditional watch-making" can drive revenue to reach 2bn because customers would get 5270, or Historiques instead while there is plenty rooms for culture with haute horology approach

[huncho]

curious what all the critics of FHB want AP to be today or what they wanted AP to have done instead. are you guys really missing the days when no one cared about the brand and all their pieces were like 40% under retail? because aside from the marketing and limited collabs that normal people won't get, it's still the same brand at its core with the royal oak line and now just added the code line, which watch enthusiasts are really turning around on and loving

a couple super limited collabs and suddenly a brand that has introduced watches like the 15305/15407 (and other variations of openworked dials)/QP and ceramic QP/tourbillons/etc shouldn't be in the holy trinity anymore and isn't focused on watchmaking? but yet when they were all sitting in cases with no buyers and those watches didn't exist it was undoubtedly an amazing brand lol

we can look at VC to see the other side. a great high horology brand that people only started buying recently because it resembles APs that no one could buy and one that can't even get a subforum here because mods say there's too little interest for it lol

[Vivalas]

Just watched the interview and I thought it was fantastic. He came over as passionate about AP and clearly took them to another level. Whatever he does next, good luck to him and I’ve a feeling it will be another success.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by huncho

curious what all the critics of FHB want AP to be today or what they wanted AP to have done instead. are you guys really missing the days when no one cared about the brand and all their pieces were like 40% under retail? because aside from the marketing and limited collabs that normal people won't get, it's still the same brand at its core with the royal oak line and now just added the code line, which watch enthusiasts are really turning around on and loving

a couple super limited collabs and suddenly a brand that has introduced watches like the 15305/15407 (and other variations of openworked dials)/QP and ceramic QP/tourbillons/etc shouldn't be in the holy trinity anymore and isn't focused on watchmaking? but yet when they were all sitting in cases with no buyers and those watches didn't exist it was undoubtedly an amazing brand lol

we can look at VC to see the other side. a great high horology brand that people only started buying recently because it resembles APs that no one could buy and one that can't even get a subforum here because mods say there's too little interest for it lol

It’s not about the product not being sold. And yes it’s still a great brand but very one dimensional and focused on fashion / celebrity collabs and my critique was that of FBH solely putting this into focus. Ultimately I don’t have enough money to focus on Patek and AP, since my patek relationship with 4 pieces in the last 2 years is going great I really don’t care about AP but I still like the brand so I care about from the sidelines


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[edo]

The point of view is totally wrong. At the time APs were sitting in the cases, especially the ROs, FHB was also CEO of AP, and AP was also the cult brand with legendary product in that RO(O).

Suddenly, the (fashion) world turned more casual, historic haute couture maisons started to imitate streetwear brands and based half of production on hats, hoodies, t-shirts, sneakers, big watches became a trend, sport watches became a trend and AP didn't adapted he was ready with the product they always had.

With social media rise watches becoming a swag, and swinging with them as a ultimate prove of wealth like a big dk on Instagram helped too a lot.

But yes, some want to be back at times when you could buy a perpetual at msrp walking from the street, because some doesn't need to be recognized with FIRE, DOPE comment on social media and they still got a same or should I say superior product (if you look from the back)...

[Rollieo]

Core focus would be the function that dominates the organization.

The Code Universelle is a cool watch, but AP probably makes 1 a year. It doesn’t signify anything about watchmaking as their core focus. A watch manufacture that can’t make watches wouldn’t make a lot of sense.

I was really interested in the RO 38mm chrono for awhile. I learned a lot about the brand. I still do out of interest in watches in general. Ultimately didn’t decide to move forward with an AP for a few reasons, and the same reasons why I say AP’s core focus isn’t in watchmaking:

1. Specific to the RO 38mm, it’s not an in house movement, so AP settled with a design where the date window isn’t centered. It’s unacceptable to me, how can a glorious watchmaker like AP do this. It’s cutting corners. Even Seiko wouldn’t release a watch like this. Yes it’s only this watch, but I’m just surprised AP would do this. Says a lot about the brand.

2. I have a good friend who is a collector, and has all brands. Rolex, Patek, AP, Journe, a number of other independents. He had multiple APs. He said they were too unreliable, and with multiple trips for service and service experience too long - he ended up getting rid of them. The worse is that this happened on time/date only RO. Another thing that is unacceptable. Not reliable watches that don’t even have a complication.

3. Yes, the collabs. It’s all over. It’s their home page. And it’s distasteful. Rolex sponsors real people with real achievements. I like Marvel movies, but I’m not aspiring to be Spider-Man. Or a rapper. Not that I’m aspiring to be Roger Federer, but yea I’m ok being associated with him.

I’ve been in a number of organizations. The business focuses on what the CEO cares about. FHB seems like an incredible salesperson. He built the business up really well. But it’s not my cup of tea. The incoming CEO doesn’t seem like she’ll change AP “for the better” either IMO.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Rollieo

1. Specific to the RO 38mm, it’s not an in house movement, so AP settled with a design where the date window isn’t centered. It’s unacceptable to me, how can a glorious watchmaker like AP do this. It’s cutting corners. Even Seiko wouldn’t release a watch like this. Yes it’s only this watch, but I’m just surprised AP would do this. Says a lot about the brand.

You do know (or maybe not) that many of the most iconic APs, PPs, VCs, RMs, Rolex, etc used non in-house movements, including the OG RO and Nautilus, PPs manual chronograph, the Zenith Daytona etc? You can't at the same time invoke the "glorious" history of Swiss watchmaking and completely ignore what the historic reality actually was.

Vertical integration and figuring out how to declare things "in-house" whether they are or are not is a recent trend.

[Rollieo]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

You do know (or maybe not) that many of the most iconic APs, PPs, VCs, RMs, Rolex, etc used non in-house movements, including the OG RO and Nautilus, PPs manual chronograph, the Zenith Daytona etc? You can't at the same time invoke the "glorious" history of Swiss watchmaking and completely ignore what the historic reality actually was.

Vertical integration and figuring out how to declare things "in-house" whether they are or are not is a recent trend.

Nothing wrong with using non in house movements.

It’s that AP released a watch with a non centered date window because the movement was already there. It’s just sloppy

[eiesh]

IMO, collabs have been great for the brand, don’t see that going away anytime soon.

Perhaps AP should have used another calibre for the Travis Scott collab and not the 5135.

Maybe a Code 11.59 would have been a better option to drive up demand


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