Rolex - CPO

[DougUSMC]

As someone who just recently started learning from everyone here, I think I can reasonably guess why some would go CPO:
- They don't have access to much of the information on market prices that can be found here
- They don't have knowledge of trusted sellers
- Buying from an AD may lend a sense of legitimacy over grey to the uninitiated
- The can walk into the AD, see all of the options, try on everything in front of them, pick their favorite, and walk out wearing it that day.
- Wouldn't CPO purchases from "your AD" count towards "building up your spend"?

I'll admit that it's these last two that have me tempted to peruse the CPO section...

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by rmlovett1

Yes, I’d say hype and fomo are an AD, AD selling CPO, and grey dealers best friend.
Chasing the latest shiny thing….as I said…to each their own. As an adult, it’s your life, your money, chase…don’t chase, spend, don’t spend…whatever. Enjoy life responsibly is good for me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Absolutely agreed although this thread seems to be more about debating the merits of CPO as a whole. I’m trying to make the case for judicious application of CPO rather than a blanket endorsement.

[RyanJ]

I think CPO will be a really great option if and when prices settle a bit. I don't see anything wrong with the program itself.

Yes, ADs are using "peace of mind" to mark-up some watches but that's just business. Don't like it, then don't pay it.

People can always buy from a reputable secondary seller and send it to Rolex for a service if they want to be 100% certain.

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

The answer is simple, piece of mind isn’t worth that much and to me a Skydweller isn’t worth any price. If a CPO price on a given watch is more than you want to pay then don’t pay it, I’m totally down with that, but these extreme examples don’t invalidate the whole program. There’s a deep Rolex back catalog of interesting pieces that will show up in CPO. This is where the value lies.

I don't think this is an extreme example.

They are selling the blue Skydweller for $30k...
https://www.tourneau.com/watches/rol...RX9735746.html

Or a 16520 stainless Daytona for $33.5....
https://www.tourneau.com/watches/rol...RX9736276.html

Expect to pay around 1/3 over "market price" for CPO, regardless of the model.

Rolex CPO doesn't have exclusivity over "interesting pieces" as you say. There is nothing you can buy from CPO that you cant get elsewhere.

They simply sell what is being traded in and they are taking customers for idiots for even contemplating paying these kind of prices.

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by RyanJ

I think CPO will be a really great option if and when prices settle a bit. I don't see anything wrong with the program itself.

Yes, ADs are using "peace of mind" to mark-up some watches but that's just business. Don't like it, then don't pay it.

People can always buy from a reputable secondary seller and send it to Rolex for a service if they want to be 100% certain.

Question is, what is it going to take for them to start dropping those prices?

I think they are trying to sell at 2022 prices still, and then some.

Have these ADs bought high and will they accept selling for small margins?

[GrailTime]

Two things I would be interested to know....

1. What kind of price are the CPO ADs offering customers for their watches? Has anyone tried to trade in or sell to a CPO AD?

2. When the AD takes a watch in, are Rolex charging them for the service, CPO box, warranty etc?

[SCF87]

There are reputable Grey Market and Trusted Sellers here give plenty of peace of mind when purchasing. The prices of the CPO pieces are absurd and not worth it at all. Im not paranoid enough to stump up at a 200% premium.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by gaffs

I don't think this is an extreme example.

They are selling the blue Skydweller for $30k...
https://www.tourneau.com/watches/rol...RX9735746.html

Or a 16520 stainless Daytona for $33.5....
https://www.tourneau.com/watches/rol...RX9736276.html

Expect to pay around 1/3 over "market price" for CPO, regardless of the model.

Rolex CPO doesn't have exclusivity over "interesting pieces" as you say. There is nothing you can buy from CPO that you cant get elsewhere.

They simply sell what is being traded in and they are taking customers for idiots for even contemplating paying these kind of prices.

Regardless of what you think a Skydweller is a peculiarly specific example.

I bought a CPO DSSD for within $500 of what three trusted sellers were asking for it on the same day that I bought it.

You introduced the word “exclusivity” into the conversation and then attributed it to me.

When you sold your last house or car and asked market price for it did you consider your potential buyers idiots or did you simply ask what you thought you could get?

Clearly this is an emotional topic for you.

[Pepperjack]

Originally Posted by gaffs

2. When the AD takes a watch in, are Rolex charging them for the service, CPO box, warranty etc?

I don't have an answer to your first question, but as for this one, Rolex does charge for both service and CPO certification. The service price would be typical price, certification is an additional $400 USD if I remember correctly.

EDIT: I should also add that there are a lot stricter requirements for CPO services than typical. I have to require significantly more dials, hands, bracelets, clasps, crystals, and bezels.

[Sgooter]

If a Rolex CPO watch is not required to have the full set of bracelet links, then what does "Certified" actually/legally mean? Sounds like it means: "..the watch is declared by Rolex to be authentic, but it might be missing a few things."
I can expect and accept this condition in the grey market, but I will never accept it from Rolex.

[Saransh]

Originally Posted by Sgooter

If a Rolex CPO watch is not required to have the full set of bracelet links, then what does "Certified" actually/legally mean? Sounds like it means: "..the watch is declared by Rolex to be authentic, but it might be missing a few things."
I can expect and accept this condition in the grey market, but I will never accept it from Rolex.

paying CPO prices and not even having a full set sounds crazy to me...
even if the extra links are kept in a box I still want it to be complete.

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Regardless of what you think a Skydweller is a peculiarly specific example.

I bought a CPO DSSD for within $500 of what three trusted sellers were asking for it on the same day that I bought it.

You introduced the word “exclusivity” into the conversation and then attributed it to me.

When you sold your last house or car and asked market price for it did you consider your potential buyers idiots or did you simply ask what you thought you could get?

Clearly this is an emotional topic for you.

The Skydweller is far from a specific example. Have a look at what is being offered....

https://www.tourneau.com/rolex-certi...owned-watches/

Try and find a good deal on there. I'll wait!

The James Cameron is $16.25k on CPO - Sub $12k on TRF.

You said that...

"There’s a deep Rolex back catalog of interesting pieces that will show up in CPO. This is where the value lies."

I never attributed "exclusivity" to you. I simply stated that CPO don't have exclusivity over "interesting pieces". Anything they are selling can be found elsewhere. So where is the value add?

Yes, if i sold my house or car to someone for 1/3 over market value, i would think the buyer was an idiot. But one would expect to be sitting on a car or house for a very long time if one prices way over market rate. ADs will be sitting on these CPO watches for a long time if they don't adjust.

Emotional topic for me? No. I'm not the one justifying a CPO purchase to myself.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by gaffs

The Skydweller is far from a specific example. Have a look at what is being offered....

https://www.tourneau.com/rolex-certi...owned-watches/

Try and find a good deal on there. I'll wait!

The James Cameron is $16.25k on CPO - Sub $12k on TRF.

You said that...

"There’s a deep Rolex back catalog of interesting pieces that will show up in CPO. This is where the value lies."

I never attributed "exclusivity" to you. I simply stated that CPO don't have exclusivity over "interesting pieces". Anything they are selling can be found elsewhere. So where is the value add?

Yes, if i sold my house or car to someone for 1/3 over market value, i would think the buyer was an idiot. But one would expect to be sitting on a car or house for a very long time if one prices way over market rate. ADs will be sitting on these CPO watches for a long time if they don't adjust.

Emotional topic for me? No. I'm not the one justifying a CPO purchase to myself.

You literally said that I said exclusivity. I literally bought a CPO DSSD at grey pricing, you are simply barfing up examples that suit your argument while dismissing mine that refutes it. It does not surprise me that you would mock a buyer for paying your asking price while taking their money, you radiate this kind of negatively judgmental behavior. As for your prediction that AD’s will be choking on CPO watches we will all discover this together over time but I’m betting not because some people simply prefer the watch that is immediately in front of them to the watch that isn’t.

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

You literally said that I said exclusivity. I literally bought a CPO DSSD at grey pricing, you are simply barfing up examples that suit your argument while dismissing mine that refutes it. It does not surprise me that you would mock a buyer for paying your asking price while taking their money, you radiate this kind of negatively judgmental behavior. As for your prediction that AD’s will be choking on CPO watches we will all discover this together over time but I’m betting not because some people simply prefer the watch that is immediately in front of them to the watch that isn’t.

What are you talking about Kevin?

As i said before, look at Tourneau's CPO listings...

https://www.tourneau.com/rolex-certi...owned-watches/

Love for you to show me some great deals on there?!?!

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by gaffs

What are you talking about Kevin?

As i said before, look at Tourneau's CPO listings...

https://www.tourneau.com/rolex-certi...owned-watches/

Love for you to show me some great deals on there?!?!

Listen mate, why would I follow you down your dank rabbit hole and why would I look at Tourneau for CPO pricing when I have three CPO dealers within forty-five minutes of me? You pick a historically expensive seller in an historically expensive city and then rage that they are expensive, that’s your whole argument. Sounds like you should broaden your horizons, mate.

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Listen mate, why would I follow you down your dank rabbit hole and why would I look at Tourneau for CPO pricing when I have three CPO dealers within forty-five minutes of me? You pick a historically expensive seller in an historically expensive city and then rage that they are expensive, that’s your whole argument. Sounds like you should broaden your horizons, mate.

Don't be angry Kevin.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by gaffs

Don't be angry Kevin.

A simple counting of your exclamation points illustrates which one of us is angry.

My work here is done. You can take your white flag with you, you’ll need it again.

Go in peace.

[2loaded]

Originally Posted by cdmorenot

Saw a few CPO pieces at Mayors in Boca and I couldn't help but laugh when the SA gave me the price for a polar I wanted.

CPO was not designed for TRF users where we have the chance to interact with individuals that source and sell watches for a living...

Between a trusted independent reseller and CPO, there is no added peace of mind in my opinion.

My most recent acquisition was $7K without box, papers or service history. That same watch was $13K CPO ...

I could get a service pouch, a warranty card and a receipt if I send this in to Rolex for a $700 service. All in... under $8K. CPO does not make any financial sense.

....and roll the dice on the stolen watch registry, OEM parts, service refusal...etc

[madsitalia]

Originally Posted by Bazil

Been about a year now, so have a few questions.
Has anyone been tempted to go down the CPO route ?
Is the CPO program better than going grey ? Peace of mind compared to pricing
Does CPO mean it gets a service, or just a thorough check.
Interested in everyone’s opinions.
I think for me Panda Daytona 116 or 126 is unrealistic from AD, finding a really trustworthy Grey Dealer is a minefield, but CPO does seem to have many benefits ..

From Bucherer CPO homepage:
Every watch tells its own unique story, yet at Bucherer they all face the same meticulous checks. Expect your chosen piece to have undergone the following:

Full assessment
Authenticity check
Ultrasonic cleaning
Diagnostic tests of all watch functions
Authentication of movement
Servicing of movement
Time regulation and test of power reserve
Water resistance test on glass, crown and back seals

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

A simple counting of your exclamation points illustrates which one of us is angry.

My work here is done. You can take your white flag with you, you’ll need it again.

Go in peace.

Don't take the internet too seriously Kevin.

You got flim flammed by the CPO program.

It's cool. We all do things we regret.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by gaffs

Don't take the internet too seriously Kevin.

You got flim flammed by the CPO program.

It's cool. We all do things we regret.

Picking yourself up again by the bootstraps, that’s the spirit! You can hold your head high in retreat!

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Picking yourself up again by the bootstraps, that’s the spirit! You can hold your head high in retreat!

Im not a penny down to the CPO.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by gaffs

Im not a penny down to the CPO.

Me neither!

[Eddiea]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

Magical thinking.

Agree...

[Ballzzz]

Ibtc

[DoricSpiker]

Quite a bit of emotion going on here. Love it.
I bought a CPO watch in November. On reading this it feels like an AA statement! I bought the watch after 30 years of watch collecting as well. Not sure where I fit in the stereotype then.

Truth is I bought the watch because it has the most amazing 45 year old dial and bezel I had seen. So that’s it. Simple. The peace of mind was nice but not essential. I smile when everyone says buy from a trusted seller rather than CPO. It’s obvious to me that the trusted seller inflates his prices to the max of what people will pay, because he is a trusted seller!

Rolex and their ADs do the same with their CPO. They charge the max of what people will pay. Doesn’t make them con artists, in the same way the trusted sellers are not con artists.

So to repeat my AA statement. I am a watch collector of 30 years and I bought CPO!

Had a few Sancerre’s in the Dordogne so maybe the AA theme is apt!


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[PenDelicate]

"Used from reputable gray..."
"... vs going with a reputable grey dealer ..."
"there are reputable sellers with impeccable reputations that I fully trust"
"It is not hard to find a completely reputable Trusted Seller ..."
"... I’d definitely go with a trusted seller ..."
"Half the reason people use/join this forum is for the trusted dealers ..."
"Peace of mind is also from a trusted seller here."
"Between a trusted independent reseller ..."
" ... buy a used piece from a reputable source ..."
" ... a trusted seller on TRF."
"They don't have knowledge of trusted sellers ..."
"People can always buy from a reputable secondary seller ..."
"There are reputable Grey Market and Trusted Sellers ..."
"I bought a CPO DSSD for within $500 of what three trusted sellers ..."
"... buy from a trusted seller rather than CPO..."



Slight tangent.

Whenever I hear, "Trusted/reputable dealer/seller," the last place my brain rushes to is a place of trust.

When I hear, "Trusted dealer," my brain immediately leaps to two conclusions. First, that this dealer is distinguishing himself from all other dealers because he's trusted, implying that most other dealers are not. Second, if most dealers are not to be trusted, then why should I believe you when you say you are? I'm automatically in a place of scepticism. There's a subtle ... manipulation at play. Or at least, I feel someone's trying to short-circuit my defences.

If someone said about a politician, "He's an incorruptible politician," I wouldn't find myself immediately admiring the politician's morality. I'd find myself thinking that he's claiming the politician incorruptible in a sea of corruptible politicians. That is: most politicians are corruptible. So why would I belive this politician?

If an airline advertised itself by saying, "Fly our fleet of safe planes," I wouldn't think of safety. I'd think: hang on, aren't all planes safe? Does this mean planes aren't safe, but this airline is claiming the safe ones? Why would I believe that?

I wouldn't get laser-eye-surgery from a surgeon who advertised, "We're the steady-hands surgeons!" Wait, so other surgeons don't have steady hands?

I know I'm belabouring the point, but to do a little reductio-ad-absurdum (and who doesn't like that?), what would you think of a dealer advertising himself as, "I am a living dealer." I guarantee you, your brain didn't rush to a place of warm, fuzzy comfort that that dealer was reassuringly alive. Instead, at the very least, you thought, "What on earth does that mean?"

Not that I'm crapping on dealers, just this curious way of adressing them without adding, "Trusted/reputable."

Another way of describing a dealer is, "Buy box-and-papers from a bricks-and-mortar dealer who's been in business for more than five years." What isn't said here is anything about trustedness. No one's trying to short-circuit your thinking. Quite the opposite. This description hints that you may be dealing with a horribly corrupt dealer, BUT that dealer is operating under certain constraints. And those constraints work to your benefit, not his.

The first constraint is box and papers. Yes, if not omitted entirely, these can be forged, but that forging can take just a little more effort than obtaining the real thing, especially believable examples. And effort is what untrustworthy people are trying to avoid. Second, and more importantly, is bricks-and-mortar. A dealer's compulsion to defraud you is hugely dampened when he knows that you know where he'll be working tomorrow, when you discover he's sold you a fake or stolen watch. You'll happily pop back for a refund with your two larger brothers and a baseball bat. Not that you ever would - you're a sophisticated citizen of the modern world - but HE doesn't know that. Thirdly, if he's been in business for five years in that store, then he's either dodged a lot of baseball bats or he's operated without their threat. The latter being more probable.

I imagine untrusted dealers feel sadly left-out when reading this thread.

[GrailTime]

Originally Posted by PenDelicate

"Used from reputable gray..."
"... vs going with a reputable grey dealer ..."
"there are reputable sellers with impeccable reputations that I fully trust"
"It is not hard to find a completely reputable Trusted Seller ..."
"... I’d definitely go with a trusted seller ..."
"Half the reason people use/join this forum is for the trusted dealers ..."
"Peace of mind is also from a trusted seller here."
"Between a trusted independent reseller ..."
" ... buy a used piece from a reputable source ..."
" ... a trusted seller on TRF."
"They don't have knowledge of trusted sellers ..."
"People can always buy from a reputable secondary seller ..."
"There are reputable Grey Market and Trusted Sellers ..."
"I bought a CPO DSSD for within $500 of what three trusted sellers ..."
"... buy from a trusted seller rather than CPO..."



Slight tangent.

Whenever I hear, "Trusted/reputable dealer/seller," the last place my brain rushes to is a place of trust.

When I hear, "Trusted dealer," my brain immediately leaps to two conclusions. First, that this dealer is distinguishing himself from all other dealers because he's trusted, implying that most other dealers are not. Second, if most dealers are not to be trusted, then why should I believe you when you say you are? I'm automatically in a place of scepticism. There's a subtle ... manipulation at play. Or at least, I feel someone's trying to short-circuit my defences.

If someone said about a politician, "He's an incorruptible politician," I wouldn't find myself immediately admiring the politician's morality. I'd find myself thinking that he's claiming the politician incorruptible in a sea of corruptible politicians. That is: most politicians are corruptible. So why would I belive this politician?

If an airline advertised itself by saying, "Fly our fleet of safe planes," I wouldn't think of safety. I'd think: hang on, aren't all planes safe? Does this mean planes aren't safe, but this airline is claiming the safe ones? Why would I believe that?

I wouldn't get laser-eye-surgery from a surgeon who advertised, "We're the steady-hands surgeons!" Wait, so other surgeons don't have steady hands?

I know I'm belabouring the point, but to do a little reductio-ad-absurdum (and who doesn't like that?), what would you think of a dealer advertising himself as, "I am a living dealer." I guarantee you, your brain didn't rush to a place of warm, fuzzy comfort that that dealer was reassuringly alive. Instead, at the very least, you thought, "What on earth does that mean?"

Not that I'm crapping on dealers, just this curious way of adressing them without adding, "Trusted/reputable."

Another way of describing a dealer is, "Buy box-and-papers from a bricks-and-mortar dealer who's been in business for more than five years." What isn't said here is anything about trustedness. No one's trying to short-circuit your thinking. Quite the opposite. This description hints that you may be dealing with a horribly corrupt dealer, BUT that dealer is operating under certain constraints. And those constraints work to your benefit, not his.

The first constraint is box and papers. Yes, if not omitted entirely, these can be forged, but that forging can take just a little more effort than obtaining the real thing, especially believable examples. And effort is what untrustworthy people are trying to avoid. Second, and more importantly, is bricks-and-mortar. A dealer's compulsion to defraud you is hugely dampened when he knows that you know where he'll be working tomorrow, when you discover he's sold you a fake or stolen watch. You'll happily pop back for a refund with your two larger brothers and a baseball bat. Not that you ever would - you're a sophisticated citizen of the modern world - but HE doesn't know that. Thirdly, if he's been in business for five years in that store, then he's either dodged a lot of baseball bats or he's operated without their threat. The latter being more probable.

I imagine untrusted dealers feel sadly left-out when reading this thread.

It is just a turn of phrase used by people on TRF for those with long selling historys in the classified section.

It just means that they have had a good number of sales on here that can be vouched for by reviews in the who's who section. Many have established businesses, websites, bank accounts etc. Most would let you go visit and see the watch etc.

It is not an implication that anyone not a "trusted seller" is a scammer either. But as this is the internet, you have to be careful.

[Hodog16]

Maybe it's just brick and mortar jewelry stores, not CPO itself.

There's a prominent jewelry store in town that does not have a Rolex account but sells used ones who is asking $27k for an unworn pepsi on jubilee.

[Bazil]

Originally Posted by madsitalia

From Bucherer CPO homepage:
Every watch tells its own unique story, yet at Bucherer they all face the same meticulous checks. Expect your chosen piece to have undergone the following:

Full assessment
Authenticity check
Ultrasonic cleaning
Diagnostic tests of all watch functions
Authentication of movement
Servicing of movement
Time regulation and test of power reserve
Water resistance test on glass, crown and back seals

Thank you !